Help me out here - Redemption vs. Salvation?

[NeuroTypical]

The internets are all abuzz with over some of Pope Francis’ remarks at Mass on Wednesday at the Domus Santae Martae.

The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class! We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all! And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace. If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: we need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.

Text from page en.radiovaticana.va/news/2013/05/22/pope_at_mass:_culture_of_encounter_is_the_foundation_of_peace/en1-694445
of the Vatican Radio website

So, I looked around and found this thread, where folks are drawing a distinction between redemption and salvation.

I wanted to make sure I understood Catholic thought on the matter. From post #63 in that thread:

Christ’s redemptive sacrifice on the Cross is not the same thing as salvation. Salvation is the result of accepting Christ’s redemption and applying it to our lives. Catholics know that Christ died for our sins but that we must receive that free gift by trusting in him, accepting his proposal of love, and following him with our life.

So while it’s true that Christ redeemed all people, even atheists, that doesn’t mean all atheists have accepted this gift or will be saved.

Is this quote an accurate summary of what Catholics think on the matter?

 

[ffg]

Here is the way I see it -

We are not worthy of standing in God’s presence. (Salvation)

God came to earth and did an action that provided the possibility to stand in his presence. It would be against His nature (perfect love) to discriminate against His creation. (Thus redemption for all)

It is our responsibility to accept that redemptive love.

Here is the key that is missed / ignored -

How do we accept that redemptive love?

God while on earth gave us His Church, applying the rules within to our lives would show God we are accepting His love.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Neuro, Redemption can only be understood in the doctrines of Sin and Grace. Redemption is what we (humans) need because of the fall. Because of Jesus’ suffering and death, we are redeemed. What does it mean to be redeemed? The Catechism says this:

613 Christ’s death is both the Paschal sacrifice that accomplishes the definitive redemption of men, through “the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world”, and the sacrifice of the New Covenant, which restores man to communion with God by reconciling him to God through the “blood of the covenant, which was poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins”.

616 It is love “to the end” that confers on Christ’s sacrifice its value as redemption and reparation, as atonement and satisfaction. He knew and loved us all when he offered his life. Now “the love of Christ controls us, because we are convinced that one has died for all; therefore all have died.” No man, not even the holiest, was ever able to take on himself the sins of all men and offer himself as a sacrifice for all. The existence in Christ of the divine person of the Son, who at once surpasses and embraces all human persons, and constitutes himself as the Head of all mankind, makes possible his redemptive sacrifice for all.

All are redeemed as all need to be saved. It is only through God’s Redemptive act that we are saved. Salvation flows from Redemption. Both are a gift from God.

Jesus taught, believing in Him, being baptized, and living a Christian life is the needed response to God’s gifts.

Past that, is getting into judgement of individuals, including in that thread of atheists. All will be judged according to their understanding of God and how they live according to that understanding. Someone who doesn’t believe in Jesus Christ, never heard of Him, is judged according to what they do believe and know. So even an atheist can be saved, but that isn’t up to any of us to decide. That judgement is left to God.

 

[spiderweb]

I would say that’s an accurate statement. All mankind has been redeemed, but not all are saved. God showed his love by redeeming us through his death. We need to respond to His love and show our love in return to the best of our knowledge and ability. If we do not love God, in essence we are rejecting his graces that he merited for us. Without his graces there is no salvation.

 

[wllmjoseph]

My understanding is that redemption and salvation are two separate entities. It was through the Jesus’ crucifixion and resurrection that all or humanity was redeemed. It is our response to Jesus’ sacrifice on Calvary that enables a person to receive the grace of salvation. If my understanding is incorrect please advise me. Thank you. Vivat Jesus!!! [BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB]

 

[NeuroTypical]

Thanks all.

 

[ConstantineTG]

One of the theological opinions in Orthodoxy about salvation is that hell is not about God condemning us to a fiery place, but rather at the end of the ages we all will come into the presence of God. Now whether we revel in the presence of God as faithful people, or eternally be tormented by it because of our reject of him, depends on our own actions.

So Christ has redeemed us all in the sense that we now have life in us, all of us will be resurrected at the end of ages. Now, how many of us will cling to God rather than cling to our sin? And as God rids all of his creation of sin, how many of us will rejoice in it, or lament the loss of what we held on to? Redemption has assured us of eternal life, salvation is whether we will be living that eternal life in God’s grace or not.

 

[atheistteenview]

The internets are all abuzz with over some of Pope Francis’ remarks at Mass on Wednesday at the Domus Santae Martae.

So, I looked around and found this thread, where folks are drawing a distinction between redemption and salvation.

I wanted to make sure I understood Catholic thought on the matter. From post #63 in that thread:
Is this quote an accurate summary of what Catholics think on the matter?

Well, IMO, if we are supposedly all of God’s children, and if God loves all of his creations, and Jesus saved ALLLLL of us… that includes atheists. like me But seriously. I like the new pope. He’s nice!

 

[ConstantineTG]

Well, IMO, if we are supposedly all of God’s children, and if God loves all of his creations, and Jesus saved ALLLLL of us… that includes atheists. like me But seriously. I like the new pope. He’s nice!

Jesus did die for you and for everyone else. He did his part, now you have to do yours

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him will not be condemned, but whoever doe not believe will be condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

In the beginning there was no need for humanity and creation to be redeemed. “Oh happy fault of Adam” from his free will, subjected our humanity and creation to a fallen state that leads to death which all of creation returns to dust.

Thanks to God’s love, God did not condemn the world, we did this of our own freewill, but sent His only begotten Son to redeem the world back to which God created it for, to live eternally in His presence. The redemptive act for the world has been paid for, “God himself will provide the sacrifice” (Jesus the Lamb of God) (see Gen.22:8) to redeem fallen man from eternal death.

God has redeemed all of humanity from man’s eternal fallen state that returns to dust. Redemption in that sense of returning us back to that original life, where we like out first parents are given the “free will” and freedom of choice to choose life or death.

The scriptures confirm that “salvation” is the result, for those who accept God’s free gift of redemption. When, we of our own free will accept God’s redemption by believing in His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, who say’s “behold I make all things new”.

**Those who by their own free will refuse God’s redemption, never the less will be raised to eternal life in the end, because God’s redemption is for all humanity, and God does not decieve nor can God be decieved. These will go on to live their redemptive eternal life in that lake of fire of their own free will.

Those who believe in Jesus will also be raised to eternal life in the end, because of Jesus redemptive act and will go on to live eternally in God’s peace and loving presence from God’s saving Grace and salvation**

Can redemption be lost? never!, Can salvation be lost? Yes, by our own free will to chose life or death. Jesus is the way and the life, no one goes to the Father except through the Son. Thus Catholics follow Jesus by “working out our salvation with fear and trembling”.

The redemption is proof by the crucifixion, Salvation is made hopeful by the proof of the resurrection of Jesus Christ, Salvation is made a reality when Jesus ascended into heaven. Believe in Jesus is accepting God’s redemption, Follow Jesus and obey His commandments to Love one another, and salvation is our hope in eternal life.

Peace be with you