Help me out here regarding annulment

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Thank you for your reply. I already went to Basilica but it was closed so I am going to see a local priest for his advice. But reading about a successful annulment using adultery as the reason is pretty slim. A lot of you mentioned it.

Here’s a better link

arcc-catholic-rights.net/internal_forum.htm

What other options do I have? As far I as know divorce then annulment or IFS. And why are you so against IFS? I think it is a good option for those of us who don’t have a chance with the annulment procedures.
Internal forum means you have a legal marriage with someone and then live as brother and sister.

You need to go to an actual CATHOLIC source for information.

Try Ed Peter’s blog, his books would be a great help to you.

canonlaw.info/blog.html
 
Internal forum means you have a legal marriage with someone and then live as brother and sister.

You need to go to an actual CATHOLIC source for information.

Try Ed Peter’s blog, his books would be a great help to you.

canonlaw.info/blog.html
This sample will be applicable to my situation in the future when I remarry…

"Some Practical Advice.

Let’s say that faithful Catholics are mature enough to think about employing the internal forum solution. Here’s how it works. Let’s say Tom was married before. But he was divorced, and then he remarried. Let’s say he married another Catholic. Call her Matilda. Or maybe he and Matilda haven’t gotten married yet, but would like to. Tom and Matilda still believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, His only son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary, crucified under Pontius Pilate and so on. In other words, they’re still Catholics. They have this need to be right with the Lord, and they want to share in their Catholic community’s Eucharistic celebration."
 
This sample will be applicable to my situation in the future when I remarry…

"Some Practical Advice.

Let’s say that faithful Catholics are mature enough to think about employing the internal forum solution. Here’s how it works. Let’s say Tom was married before. But he was divorced, and then he remarried. Let’s say he married another Catholic. Call her Matilda. Or maybe he and Matilda haven’t gotten married yet, but would like to. Tom and Matilda still believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, His only son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary, crucified under Pontius Pilate and so on. In other words, they’re still Catholics. They have this need to be right with the Lord, and they want to share in their Catholic community’s Eucharistic celebration."
Tom would have to have the tribunal investigate his marriage to see if he is free to marry Matilda.

If he decides to ignore the Church teaching on this and marry Matilda at first church of what’s happenin now or the courthouse, Tom and Matilda will still not be married in the eyes of God. The internal forum is where Tom goes and confesses to the sin of having a marriage outside of the Church, then, he and Matilda live as brother and sister - they do not have sex - so Tom and Matilda can recieve the Eucharist.
 
Tom would have to have the tribunal investigate his marriage to see if he is free to marry Matilda.

If he decides to ignore the Church teaching on this and marry Matilda at first church of what’s happenin now or the courthouse, Tom and Matilda will still not be married in the eyes of God. The internal forum is where Tom goes and confesses to the sin of having a marriage outside of the Church, then, he and Matilda live as brother and sister - they do not have sex - so Tom and Matilda can recieve the Eucharist.
here’s the rest of the practical advice…

But they have this divorce-and-second-marriage thing, and they want the Church’s blessing, but, for any number of reasons, they cannot go through the annulment process, or do not want to. (Some, for instance, feel the process demeaning or an invasion of privacy, and some cannot afford the legal fees, even though they are low, as legal fees go.) The bottom line is that their conscience is clear about this second marriage.

We may be going too fast here. How do Tom and Matilda know their conscience is clear? Because they know Tom’s first marriage is dead, and that there’s no possibility of going back to it. Tom is sorry for his inability to do better the first time, Tom is fulfilling his legal obligations to the children of his first marriage, and they both firmly believe that they will live a better Christian life in this marriage, and Tom wouldn’t dream of leaving Matilda any more than Matilda would dream of leaving Tom. They believe this marriage is good, and, so far as they can tell, something God wants for them, now.

The canon lawyers who are currently urging greater use of the internal forum solution make a good deal out of the distinction between two kinds of previous marriage: 1) a marriage that was “invalid” but whose invalidity is difficult to prove before a diocesan marriage tribunal, and 2) one that was valid but is now dead, and as non-functional as a blind man’s binoculars. As one pastor put it in James Bowman’s book, Bending the Rules, “People know there was a [first, valid] marriage. There just wasn’t enough Christ in it to make it for life.” In practice, the distinctions make little difference to those who have to make a decision in good conscience. Tom and Matilda still have to make up their own minds that they are doing the right thing. They may not have the legal acumen to figure out which one of the Church’s 14 causes of nullity might apply in Tom’s case. But they do know when marriage number one has died. Almost from the beginning, Eastern Orthodox churches have continued to embrace their sons and daughters who have experienced various forms of marriage death. But there can be more than one kind of marriage death.

what I don’t get is, why do I need the tribunal to investigate if adultery cannot be used as a reason for annulment? So freaking complicated. I am just going to convert to another faith and marry 4 wives, not!
 
Hi normcaro - you have my prayers and support.

Why contact the tribunal? Well, there may be other grounds (or whatever you call it) for annulment that could be discovered by the tribunal. You won’t know until you bring it to the tribunal.
 
Hi normcaro - you have my prayers and support.

Why contact the tribunal? Well, there may be other grounds (or whatever you call it) for annulment that could be discovered by the tribunal. You won’t know until you bring it to the tribunal.
I will contact my local priest but I really want to move on with my life as soon as possible. Tribunal will take up to 18 months. And by looking at the grounds for annulment below…

“-failure to follow legal format, such as not obtaining a marriage license or neglecting to fulfill other statutory prohibitions;
-being underage—there is a fixed marriageable age that must be respected;
-gender—most societies permit only heterosexuals to marry;
-consanguinity—a marriage would be considered “incestuous and void” if the parties were related by blood, that is, ancestors and descendants such as father and daughter,
-brothers and sisters, uncles and nieces, aunts and nephews;
affinity—a relationship established by marriage, such as stepbrother and stepsister;
-impotency—the incapacity to perform the act of sexual intercourse;
duress (force and fear)—a valid marriage requires free and willing consent of both male and female;
-fraud (deception)—both parties must intend to assume the contractual obligations; and
-mental disorder or mental deficiency— persons must possess the ability to understand the nature and consequences of the marriage ceremony.”

Adultery is not covered so why waste my time and money?
 
I will contact my local priest but I really want to move on with my life as soon as possible. Tribunal will take up to 18 months. And by looking at the grounds for annulment below…

“-failure to follow legal format, such as not obtaining a marriage license or neglecting to fulfill other statutory prohibitions;
-being underage—there is a fixed marriageable age that must be respected;
-gender—most societies permit only heterosexuals to marry;
-consanguinity—a marriage would be considered “incestuous and void” if the parties were related by blood, that is, ancestors and descendants such as father and daughter,
-brothers and sisters, uncles and nieces, aunts and nephews;
affinity—a relationship established by marriage, such as stepbrother and stepsister;
-impotency—the incapacity to perform the act of sexual intercourse;
duress (force and fear)—a valid marriage requires free and willing consent of both male and female;
-fraud (deception)—both parties must intend to assume the contractual obligations; and
-mental disorder or mental deficiency— persons must possess the ability to understand the nature and consequences of the marriage ceremony.”

Adultery is not covered so why waste my time and money?
Could adultery plus getting pregnant be covered under “Fraud”?

“Fraud or deceit at the time of marriage is also grounds for annulment. Fraud can include any of the following: one party never intended on getting married; one person was already married to another living person; the marriage was an attempt to deceive the other person; one person used force to get married by threat or duress; the marriage was done to gain citizenship status; one party concealed a chemical dependency or other problem; the women was pregnant with another man’s child and claimed it was the husband’s; and situations similar to this.”
 
I Adultery is not covered so why waste my time and money?
you are looking at only one aspect of your troubled marriage, and as you say, you are not even divorced yet, so one thing at a time. If you do as advised, talk to your own priest, who is in the best position to advise you on all aspects of your situation, and when the time comes take the time to go through the tribunal process, you will find that the non-Catholic links you keep quoting are not giving you full, accurate information, and there is a lot you are not considering.

No adultery after the marriage does not render invalid a marriage that was valid at its inception. Why not get the help suggested in finding out whether or not it was in fact valid. Why try to be judge and jury all by yourself? You have good advice. No you are not getting anybody here to tell, go out and shack up and commit the same offenses your wife has done, and lie to yourself about it in the so-called internal forum.

Please see your priest. No one here can help you. You need individual advice on your specific individual situation. We will help you out with the praying end of it.
 
you are looking at only one aspect of your troubled marriage, and as you say, you are not even divorced yet, so one thing at a time. If you do as advised, talk to your own priest, who is in the best position to advise you on all aspects of your situation, and when the time comes take the time to go through the tribunal process, you will find that the non-Catholic links you keep quoting are not giving you full, accurate information, and there is a lot you are not considering.

No adultery after the marriage does not render invalid a marriage that was valid at its inception. Why not get the help suggested in finding out whether or not it was in fact valid. Why try to be judge and jury all by yourself? You have good advice. No you are not getting anybody here to tell, go out and shack up and commit the same offenses your wife has done, and lie to yourself about it in the so-called internal forum.

Please see your priest. No one here can help you. You need individual advice on your specific individual situation. We will help you out with the praying end of it.
I am going to see a priest, that is my next step. I am on this forum to gather some information and feedback too. “so-called internal forum” - why a lot of you are against this forum? I thought it is the better-kept secrets in the Catholic Church.
 
I am going to see a priest, that is my next step. I am on this forum to gather some information and feedback too. “so-called internal forum” - why a lot of you are against this forum? I thought it is the better-kept secrets in the Catholic Church.
we are against the mis-use of this term as an excuse to enter into a sinful and damaging relationship. Nothing in the sources you are citing does anything to convey a correct understanding of this term. You are quite right to see your priest and I hope he helps you on all the levels on which you are being hurt. Nobody should have to go through what you have, and the Church does have a solution for you, so allow her to help.
 
Could adultery plus getting pregnant be covered under “Fraud”?
No.
In looking at whether one has a valid marriage or not the church looks that the actual time of consent, on the day you were married.

You have the right plan in going to talk with your parish priest. I have seen many discussions here about seeking a declaration of nullity, what you are calling an “annulment”. It most often goes on and on and in the end the person has not gotten any closer to knowing what the status of their marriage would be in the eye of the church.

Many diocese have information pages about the process. Here is an example of one on the Diocese of Sacramento web site, and another example from the Archdiocese of Detroit.

Canon Law is something best practiced by canon lawyers. 🙂

You have my prayers for the deeply hurtful situation you are experiencing. I have heard people give testimony to how healing the declaration of nullity process was for them regardless of the outcome (marriage declared null or marriage declared valid).

Your parish priest is the starting point for the process and he is in the best position to help you.

In Christ.
 
you are looking at only one aspect of your troubled marriage, and as you say, you are not even divorced yet, so one thing at a time.
I apologize for having missed this very central point.
The process for declaration of nullity cannot be started until a civil divorce has been finalized. Your parish priest is still the one to assist you.
 
I am going to see a priest, that is my next step. I am on this forum to gather some information and feedback too. “so-called internal forum” - why a lot of you are against this forum? I thought it is the better-kept secrets in the Catholic Church.
The “internal forum” was an attempt to get around the Decree of Nullity requirement. It has been specifically disallowed in marriage cases in some document I have lost track of. Briefly, they stated that marriage is contracted in the external forum; so must be evaluated in the external forum.

Going to your parish priest is the right first step. However, I have found some parish priests not as familiar with the Nullity process as one might wish; they can’t be expert in everything. If you don’t get satisfaction, call your Diocesan Tribunal, and let them put you in touch with an expert. [Note it is often called the Marriage Tribunal, but is the court for all canon law matters. It’s just that marriage cases are its usual task.]
 
I think I will have to print that out and keep it next to my diploma. 🙂
I only had one required term of it and I actually loved the class, and it reinforced again my respect for our tribunals. Thank you for your service.
 
I found this page talking about “The Internal Forum Solution”, any of you heard of this? It is a long article but I think there is hope for me to remarry and be accepted by the church.

astro.temple.edu/~arcc/marriage.htm
JMJ

This is going to sound harsh, but I’m unsubscribing from this thread so I am just going to get straight to the point.

You’re not even divorced yet and are fretting about getting married again!! which says three things: you didn’t really love your wife, and you do **not **take your marriage vows seriously, and you have no intention of following Christ.

When the Tribunal declares a marriage null, it is based around the vows, consent etc. Adultery after marriage does **not **nullify the marriage. You need to face that fact, and work on your relationship with God rather than spending all your extra time looking for a way around the truth for your pleasure and convenience…which will only lead to Hell. You seem to know this already, which is why you’re looking to get around an annulment.

I’m going to keep you and your wife in my prayers.
 
[edited] I am doing my research and asking everyone’s feedback to do the right thing JUST IN CASE I remarry. Who doesn’t want to get married? It is beautiful to be married and share our God given love and care. I love my wife, I tried my best to be a loving husband but there are things in life I have no control of. Even during the separation, I prayed to God for strength and will to salvage my marriage. I met with my wife a number of times asking for a possible reconciliation while she is living or spending time with her mistress but she made up her mind. [edited]
 
Dear normcaro,

I am in a similar situation where my wife comitted adultery, and after I tried to save my Catholic marriage, she continually commited adultery with this same man. They are now “married” and she is 5 months pregnant. We are legally divorced for 2.5 years, and I struggle with this situation almost every day, so I feel for you and will pray for you.

I truly do not understand God’s will for those in our situation. At the time. I received some pastoral advice from Protestant pastors, which have both interpreted Matthew 19:9 to “allow” divorce when adultery has occured. I have since grown to question this, based on the various translations of this passage; and Catholic teaching does not agree with this, as explained in previous posts.

I am dissapointed that this particular verse is not translated by the Catholic Church leaders to mean what I want it to mean, but I have to admit that what I want and what God wants may be different sometimes, unfortunately. 🙂

I am now about to undergo an annulment workshop, primarily because of the advice of my Catholic family, but I still question if this is God’s will. I pray that it is not a mistake of the Catholic Church to create a process that Jesus did not intend for. I will continue to share with you what I learn in the process.
 
You need to sit down with your parish priest and talk over what’s happened. If you feel your marriage had issues “from the beginning” then you will need to prayerfully reflect on whether you feel you should pursue an annulment. If you choose to go the path of seeking an annulment then so be it.
This decision is your’s to make. No one on this board can tell you whether you should or shouldn’t pursue that avenue. No one on this board could possibly know if your marriage is valid or invalid. Those are questions only you can answer through prayer and guidance of your parish priest.
 
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