Help me refute argument against trinity

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catholictiger

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a few weeks ago maybe a month ago i had a debate with this guy on another board about the trinity

it was an interesting debate we both through back and forth scripture passages

we both claimed we where taking things out of context

along with other things

I eventually brought in 4 videos which tackled the JW believe that there is no trinity, it was by a Franciscan who pulled out things from the Earth church fathers and biblical passages but this guy claimed he didn’t take things fully in context

but this guy brought out this one biblical passage that i couldn’t quite respond to and didn’t know what to say.

So if you could help me its

1 Corinthians 15 20-28 it talks about the first fruits (my bible says on the passage Christ the first-fruits)

i think from this passage he uses the argument that because as v27 says he subjected everything under his feet. Pretty much saying that Christ was not in level with god meaning he isn’t divine, becuase he has to put things under gods feet per-say he is less then god meaning not divine)

I would go more in depth into our argument but its to much to recall and its hard to find the thread on the other site.

also if i tried to say when you put the bible in context he would say well with this passage the trinity can’t possibly exist meaning you have to rebut this passage before bringing in other passages.

Thanks for the help and incite on the passage.

i should do a lexio devina on this

im not arguing the guy on this anymore even though it may come up later i just want some incite on this passage

its late where i am ill get back to this in the morning
 
Perhaps this link will help:
www.rtforum.org/study/lesson14.html
The writer in this link says against the Jehovah’s Witnesses that that this passage in 1 Corinthians speaks of Christ’s humanity, not his divinity.
Don’t let him put you on your defensive. If he says the passage means what he says, it is up to him to prove his view. If what you say provides even a reasonable doubt as to his view about this passage, he view is not proven.
 
Never forget that the truth of the True Church is on your side as well. You can always ask, what unbroken line of authority leading back to Christ Himself does their faith and beliefs come from.?:newidea:
 
Important to remember that we CANNOT PROVE the Trinity from Scripture alone. Back in the early church both the orthodox and the heretics were citing Scripture - the same passages, the same arguments that these modern-day heretics make today. Ultimately we know and hold the doctrine of the Trinity because the Apostolic Church declared and teaches it. This is one of the most critical places where sola scriptura falls down.

The Trinity does not contradict Scripture, it is supported by Scripture - but it is Apostolic Tradition that gives us surety.
 
NHInsider said:
Important to remember that we CANNOT PROVE the Trinity from Scripture alone. Back in the early church both the orthodox and the heretics were citing Scripture - the same passages, the same arguments that these modern-day heretics make today. Ultimately we know and hold the doctrine of the Trinity because the Apostolic Church declared and teaches it. This is one of the most critical places where sola scriptura falls down.

The Trinity does not contradict Scripture, it is supported by Scripture - but it is Apostolic Tradition that gives us surety.
Click to expand...
To me - the NT would collapse if Jesus was not God because he accepts worship and scripture clearly teaches us (old and new) that we can’t worship an angel, only the Lord.

Blessings,

Brian
 
In Phil 2 and Hebrews 1 at the incarnation Jesus did not maintain his authority or status as being equal with God the Father because he became a man. After Jesus fulfilled his mission on earth God the Father simply restored that authority or status returning Jesus to the glory he had before the incarnation.
 
**"Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.” (Gen 1:26)

not “my image” but “our image,after our likeness!” Sounds like a Trinitarian reference in the first book of Sacred Scripture!**

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Pecatoribus!

mark
 
You are quite right in saying that we should go to tradition as well as Scripture when it comes to the Catholic faith. However, Catholic Answers itself provides an article worth considering when it comes to the divinity of Christ as upheld by Scripture. (The divinity of Christ actually, as I recall, was the specific question raised by the original poster, someone who had debated Jehovah’s Witnesses, who do not believe in the divinity of Christ.).
This article is at www.catholic.com/library/Divinity_of_Christ.asp
This article I notice too, though, does also bring up tradition, in the person of the Fathers of the Church, which makes this article even more helpful when it comes to your rightful concerns.
NHInsider said:
Important to remember that we CANNOT PROVE the Trinity from Scripture alone. Back in the early church both the orthodox and the heretics were citing Scripture - the same passages, the same arguments that these modern-day heretics make today. Ultimately we know and hold the doctrine of the Trinity because the Apostolic Church declared and teaches it. This is one of the most critical places where sola scriptura falls down.

The Trinity does not contradict Scripture, it is supported by Scripture - but it is Apostolic Tradition that gives us surety.
Click to expand...
 
Mark77 said:
"Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth." (Gen 1:26)

not “my image” but “our image,after our likeness!” Sounds like a Trinitarian reference in the first book of Sacred Scripture!
Click to expand...
It looks that way to us, because we have the benefit of revelation. It did not look that way to Patriarchs or the Prophets, or generations of faithful Jews whose creed has always been “Hear O Israel, the Lord thy God, the Lord is One.”

From the familiarity of two millenia of Christian faith, we often fail to understand how truly radical it was that the Messiah was God Incarnate. When Paul says “He is the image of the Living God” (Col.1:15) he is asserting something extraordinarily unfathomable.
 
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