Help me resolve this issue re:creation

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VeritasLuxMea

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If God is perfection, then He wants for nothing, yes?

But if so, why choose to create us? How could He both want for nothing and yet, choose to create something?

I see a few resolutions.
  1. Perhaps God is close to perfection, but not all the way there… he was indeed missing something, and we were that something… something to share his love with.
  2. The creation was involuntary.
Any other possibilities?
 
VeritasLuxMea said:
If God is perfection, then He wants for nothing, yes?

But if so, why choose to create us? How could He both want for nothing and yet, choose to create something?

I see a few resolutions.
  1. Perhaps God is close to perfection, but not all the way there… he was indeed missing something, and we were that something… something to share his love with.
  2. The creation was involuntary.
Any other possibilities?
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Many. One actually makes sense.
 
I think the bigger question is… if God is perfect, why did he create such an imperfect world? I guess we’ll never know…
 
JRKH said:
What makes you think the world is imperfect?

Peace
James
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Hmmm… rape, murder, child molestation, natural disasters, war, hate, theft, deceit, animals needing to kill other animals to survive (odd idea), disease, birth defects, terrorism, George Bush… the list goes on…
 
mantanz said:
Hmmm… rape, murder, child molestation, natural disasters, war, hate, theft, deceit, animals needing to kill other animals to survive (odd idea), disease, birth defects, terrorism, George Bush… the list goes on…
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Those are all perfect outcomes of the continuum they are. Except maybe for bush… 🙂
 
Sigh…
Just one more time. 🤷

God was perfectly happy by himself.

He gets nothing from us.

He created us to share in his life.

He created us out of sheer generosity by his free choice.
 
OK…Lits’ sort though yor list…
mantanz said:
Hmmm… rape, murder, child molestation, war, hate, theft, deceit, terrorism,
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A wonderful list of people using their free will to do evil things to other people.
God created us perfectly and with perfectly free wills.
These are the results of people acting imperfectly - not God’s creation being imperfect.
animals needing to kill other animals to survive (odd idea), disease, birth defects, natural disasters,
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Actually, I don’t see any of these things necessarily pointing to an imperfect creation.
In the case of animals, every animal - even vegetarians - destroy another living organism in order to survive. Humans are no different. The various elements are recycled and the system continues on. Likewise, for the human soul, once our time here is completed, we move on to another existence.
Disease, Birth defects, and natural disasters? These are all opportunities God Gives us to show His Love in the World.
George Bush… the list goes on…
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😃

Peace
James
 
God is thee eternal creator. There is nothing good that has not come from him. Its those who misuse good knowledge for selfish prophet that sin. Because he is eternal is why there is 3 in 1. Because He was, is, and ever shall be all across eternity.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<1Eternal God - the Father >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<2His Word - Jesus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<3The Holy spirit - shared Love>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

with time…to decide 1 death or 2.
A person, 1You are
2What you know and understand
3You feel good for knowing

Understand God is the author of life. He is completely contrite with himself, because He is the author of life; He creates. What He is is.

Humans are spirit inside of a materal body, upon a material world. To me our short stay here is pre-life. A contrast of life on earth, inwhich we will really be able to appreciate how good God truely is.
Yes you have free will in this materialistic world, but what you reap you shall sow. So let’s say God gave you good knowledge, but because we are not perfect like He is we can fault with that knowlege. God has eternal perspective, we have short sighted perspective. We are suppossed to be spiritual beings but instead we are materalistic people that indulge on our sences, and collect materalistic items as a security blanket instead of faith in God.
God is the top of the hierarchy. Don’t forget Jesus not only died for our sins, but remember he was excited to give us the Holy Spirit as a helper. The Holy Spirit who resides in you a holy church. CHURCH Christ Here Under Rising Christian Heart. Ecclesiastes is what you know as church, which is the house of the teacher.
 
mantanz said:
I think the bigger question is… if God is perfect, why did he create such an imperfect world? I guess we’ll never know…
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I would submit that the pretext of your question is flawed, and argue that God did indeed create a perfect world.

This can be supported by Genesis 1, where in the first story of the creation at the end of each day, “…God saw that it was good,” and when He finished his creation in totality, “…it was VERY good.”

In Genesis 3, it was man who transformed God’s perfect world into the imperfect world it is today, through sin.

Peace
 
empther said:
Sigh…
Just one more time. 🤷

God was perfectly happy by himself.

He gets nothing from us.

He created us to share in his life.

He created us out of sheer generosity by his free choice.
Click to expand...
So he wanted something to “share in his life.”

That’s the point. You see how it’s problematic?

If God was indeed wanting for something, then it must mean we are an integral part of his eternal perfection.

If I’m wrong, fine, correct me!
 
VeritasLuxMea said:
If God is perfection, then He wants for nothing, yes?

But if so, why choose to create us? How could He both want for nothing and yet, choose to create something?

I see a few resolutions.
  1. Perhaps God is close to perfection, but not all the way there… he was indeed missing something, and we were that something… something to share his love with.
  2. The creation was involuntary.
Any other possibilities?
Click to expand...
God did not create us because He “wanted some friends,” rather, God created us because He is a creator and that’s what creators do. Because of God’s Three-in-One nature, God does not have any wants or needs. God did not choose to create us because one day He got lonely and bored with life; rather, God created us because He is love and life, and one of the ways God manifests His love is by giving life to his creatures; and one of the ways God manifests this Love for His creatures is in the very life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus.
 
I’m going to get serious for a minute, I hope everyone doesn’t mind. Can we please, please, please skip it with the poetic stuff? Seriously. Enough of that. Most of us have either been through RCIA or Catholic schooling. So we’ve had our fair share of poetry and fluffy language wouldn’t you say? 🙂
shoe said:
God did not create us because He “wanted some friends,” rather, God created us because He is a creator and that’s what creators do. Because of God’s Three-in-One nature, God does not have any wants or needs. God did not choose to create us because one day He got lonely and bored with life; rather, God created us because He is love and life, and one of the ways God manifests His love is by giving life to his creatures; and one of the ways God manifests this Love for His creatures is in the very life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus.
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Was it willed or was it not willed?

If it was willed, why was it willed? To “manifest His love”? If so, that was a desire God had - to manifest His love. Right?
 
He willed for us to be made in his image. An image of loving helper, capable of creating.
 
VeritasLuxmea, post 13…
Originally Posted by empther
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Sigh…
Just one more time. 🤷

God was perfectly happy by himself.

He gets nothing from us.

He created us to share in his life.

He created us out of sheer generosity by his free choice.

So he wanted something to “share in his life.”

That’s the point. You see how it’s problematic?

If God was indeed wanting for something, then it must mean we are an integral part of his eternal perfection.

If I’m wrong, fine, correct me!
Click to expand...

He didn’t “want” anything, and I didn’t use that word.
God wasn’t wanting, or lacking, or missing something.
He is and was infinitely perfect in himself, and could not change or gain anything in any way. We share in his divine nature, in Heaven, only because he manifests himself to us, but he gets nothing from us.

Interesting how you “get” everything wrong. What is your agenda 🤷
( as if it weren’t perfectly obvious :mad: ) ?
 
empther said:
VeritasLuxmea, post 13…

He didn’t “want” anything, and I didn’t use that word.
God wasn’t wanting, or lacking, or missing something.
He is and was infinitely perfect in himself, and could not change or gain anything in any way. We share in his divine nature, in Heaven, only because he manifests himself to us, but he gets nothing from us.
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Confusion stems from this: in order to will something you must want something. Correct?

So would it be fair to say that we were not willed by God but necessary consequences of His nature?
Interesting how you “get” everything wrong. What is your agenda 🤷
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Gee, I don’t know… the same agenda people have had about God from the dawn of time?

Understanding Him to the best extent possible for a human mind!

Why does that offend you? :confused:
( as if it weren’t perfectly obvious :mad: ) ?
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You apparently have answers. What’s wrong with asking you to share some of them?
 
Confusion stems from this: in order to will something you must want something. Correct?
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So would it be fair to say that we were not willed by God but necessary consequences of His nature?
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When we will something we also want something because we need.
God doesn’t need anything. He wills our happiness out of sheer goodness.

Don’t try to tell me you don’t understand that. :mad:

We are not “necessary consequences of His nature” because that would imply an inevtibality, and a need of God to create, neither of which is true. This is a deliberate leap in logic on your part.

Don’t try to tell me you don’t understand that. :mad:

Your agenda is to change God from the Judeo-Christian God to something else, something less than God, something with whom we share a mutual need, something like a pantheistic God.
 
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