Help me stop a friend from converting to Islam!

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fnr

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A friend of mine who’s had a very hard life has been recently the target of Muslim evangelization efforts. Now that friend is seriously studying Islam and is considering converstion.

This friend is a “non-denominational” Protestant. Can anyone provide me with some good references or tips?

Thanks!
 
I don’t know what to tell you. I will pray for your friend. If your friend wants a great book that deals with the person of Christ then I would recommend “The Life of Christ” by Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen.
 
Tell him to read any of Robert’s Spencer books on islam. he has a number of them, such as “Infidel’s guide to the Koran” etc. he is very well researched on the subject of islam.
he has studied it and uses the best islamic sources available. Others one’s by Robert Spencer are: “The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam, Obama and islam, Muslim Persecution of Christians, Did Muhammad Exist?, The Truth About Muhammad.” In fact, you should read them yourself and Please have your friend read them. He needs to know what he is getting into. What I liked about Robert Spencer is that he has studied Arabic,
he uses only Islamic sources. Your friend needs to know that this is a false religion, it is spread by war, it is very anti-Christian and Jewish. Ask him what the appeal is since islam portrays God as a master that know one can really know. Is he hurting so much that he wants to go to a faith that has God as some distant master? Ask him why he wants to go to a faith that denies Jesus as the Son of God? Why does he not believe in the trinity any more? Also, but most important, pray and pray and pray for him.
 
Find out what he thinks is the MOST appealing thing about Islam (don’t be distracted by other lesser reasons). Then tell us what he says.

It would also be helpful to know a little about him - age, nationality, race, level of education, etc.
 
fnr said:
A friend of mine who’s had a very hard life has been recently the target of Muslim evangelization efforts. Now that friend is seriously studying Islam and is considering converstion.

This friend is a “non-denominational” Protestant. Can anyone provide me with some good references or tips?

Thanks!
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Fnr,

Keep in mind that you cannot control his decision, and that you should address your concerns respectfully.

I would advise him, as I do anyone who considers converting to another religion, to study Christianity while he’s considering Islam–Credo’s book was an excellent suggestion. Either it will make him a stronger Christian, or he will become a Muslim knowing that he made an informed decision.
 
robwar said:
Tell him to read any of Robert’s Spencer books on islam
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Robert Spencer is not an Islamic scholar–at all. He is also the director of Jihad Watch, which is hardly a fair or academic “source” on Islam.

FNR, if you’re going to suggest that your friend read books or articles that are critical of Islam, make sure that they come from serious authors.
 
fnr said:
A friend of mine who’s had a very hard life has been recently the target of Muslim evangelization efforts. Now that friend is seriously studying Islam and is considering converstion.

This friend is a “non-denominational” Protestant. Can anyone provide me with some good references or tips?

Thanks!
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Remind him that a big difference is that while Christians believe that the Bible is Gods Word, they do not believe that every single comma in it is placed correctly, because the Bible was copied through generations.
Therefore it might even contain some minor imprecise matters, e.g. minor contradictions in gospels are no problems, the group of saved mentioned in revelation could probably be 139999 instead if 144000 and probably many different numbers as well.

On the other hand Muslims believe that the Koran is directly dictated by Allah.

That means that it must not contain a single error or even minor contradiction, because that error or minor contradiction would not be introduced by man (as for example the different human perspectives the gospel writers had, lead to slight variation), but would stem from Allah, which must not be source of contradictions. So if there is anything in Koran, which is an error, it proves the entire Koran and entire Islam to be wrong.

Of course there is no obvious error. But there are lot of things, where even a humble human will have doubts, whether it is not an error.

Just take this one:
quran.com/33/21
“There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often.”

Thereby Allah says that Muhammed is someone humans should emulate, if they want to be morale.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_expeditions_of_Muhammad
So the allknowing Allah selected as a role model for all mankind a man who was engaged in 100 military campaigns?

Now, i do not want to paint Mohammed in any way here, the point is any mortal man acting as military leader in 100 military campaigns, even if all were perfect examples of just wars, will have something on his plate, which is not that gloriously and certainly should not be emulated by anyone or at least emulated with much restraint. And yet, without any precaution, Allah says Mohammed is an excellent pattern to emulate.

I trust my instincts enough to say, that Mohammed should not be emulated at least in some respects. Therefore sorry Allah, you commited an error and are not perfect.One error is enough to stop being perfect.

(And a bit beside the point, no wonder there are Bin Laden and his fans - if Allah prescribes emulating someone, who was military at least quite active, some Muslims will accidentaly get the idea, they should start military campaigns themselves.)
 
Thank you everyone for your advice and prayers!

Here’s how I plan to proceed.

First, I will only offer my opinion if asked (though I’ll probably ask if they would like to hear why I’m not a Muslim).

Second, if asked, I have four prongs of response.

A. Jesus died on the cross.

The Quran claims that Jesus is a prophet, much-beloved by God, but that he did not die on the cross:
*“They did not kill him and did not crucify him, rather someone was made resembling him.” *(Sura 4/157)
However, outside the Bible, there are writers that attest to the death of Jesus.

In 93 AD, Flavius Josephus, a Jewish historian wrote:
*"About this time there was Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man]. For he was one who performed surprising works, and) a teacher of people who with pleasure received the unusual. He stirred up both many Jews and also many of the Greeks. [He was the Christ.] And when Pilate condemned him to the cross, since he was accused by the first-rate men among us, those who had been loving (him from) the first did not cease (to cause trouble), **[for he appeared to them on the third day, having life again, as the prophets of God had foretold these and countless other marvelous things about him]. *And until now the tribe of Christians, so named from him, is not (yet?) extinct."
Most scholars believe that the text in bold is an interpolation by Christian scribes from a later date. However, they don’t doubt that “Pilate condemned him to the cross.”

We know that Pilate was a vicious, mediocre tyrant of a Roman administrator, serving 10 years when most provincial governors would serve 2-3 years before returning in honor to Rome. Pilate got stuck in the backwater of Palestine, and seemed to take out his frustration on his charges. The Jewish writer Philo, an Alexandrian Jew, wrote that when peaceful protestors came to protest his actions, he responded with force.

Given that historical testimony of non-Christian sources, we can be pretty sure that Jesus was executed on a cross. The Muslim notion that someone else died in his place is a total fabrication.

B. Christians worshipped Christ as God from the earliest days

Again, using extra-biblical sources, this seems an easy one to prove. Pliny the Younger was governor of the Roman provinces of Pontus and Bithynia from 111-113 AD. He persecuted Christians, and wrote of them:
"They asserted, however, that the sum and substance of their fault or error had been that they were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and to bind themselves by oath, not to some crime, but not to commit fraud, theft, or adultery, not falsify their trust, nor to refuse to return a trust when called upon to do so. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of food–but ordinary and innocent food. "
In a Christian extra-biblical source, we have the first letter of Clement to the Corinthians (80-140 AD):
*"Jesus Christ our Lord gave His blood for us by the will of God; His flesh for our flesh, and His soul for our souls. "
*

C. Muhammad experienced a heretical sect of Christianity, the miaphysites, which are the basis of his claims about Christians.

The Quran is full of condemnation for equating Jesus with God. However, the Christianity that Muhammad knew was one that said that Christ has one nature, a fusion of human and divine, called Miaphysitism (or Monophysitism). This is the doctrine held by non-Chalcedonian “Oriental Orthodox” Churches to this day. Muhammad didn’t know Chalcedonian Christianity.

A Miaphysite kingdom in “Saba” (formerly Sheba of the Old Testament) around 570 AD had allowed an ancient dam at Marib in Yemen to deteriorate to the point where it broke and a catastrophic flood sent refugees from Yemen across Arabia, as far as Syria. This dam-breaking is recorded in the Quran:
“But they turned away [from Allah], and We sent against them the Flood [released] from the dams, and We converted their two garden [rows] into “gardens” producing bitter fruit, and tamarisks, and some few [stunted] Lote-trees. That was the Requital We gave them because they ungratefully rejected Faith: And never do We give [such] requital except to such as are ungrateful rejecters.” (Sura 34/15-17)

Pre-Muslim Arabs viewed the dam breaking as retribution for the Miaphysite kingdom. This helped the Muslim cause a lot.

D. The Quran’s Suras are written, conveniently, in parallel with Muhammad’s military and evangelism campaigns.

In chronological order, the Quran is written, conveniently, to explain events in Muhammad’s campaign. The Quran’s order to track down and persecute Jews came about when Jewish residents of Medinah collaborated with the Meccans laying siege to the city. Yet this is the “eternal uncreated word of God?” Seems awfully contingent on historical events.
 
You should before discussing the A and D point verify, whether they actually accept the notion, that the Koran is the eternal uncreated word of God, as these arguments rest on this premise.

There are some “Muslims”, who do not accept the Koran to be such. If they are of these sort, A and D might be futile and discussing the implications of their future fellow Muslims nearly all getting it wrong about the Koran.
 
fnr said:
The Quran is full of condemnation for equating Jesus with God. However, the Christianity that Muhammad knew was one that said that Christ has one nature, a fusion of human and divine, called Miaphysitism (or Monophysitism). This is the doctrine held by non-Chalcedonian “Oriental Orthodox” Churches to this day. Muhammad didn’t know Chalcedonian Christianity.
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This doesn’t really have too great an impact on your debate, but I think it’s worth pointing out in fairness to the Orientals. They are miaphysite, but their miaphysitism is distinct from monophysitism as often perceived. Monophytism is often seen as equivalent to Eutychianism: that is, that Christ is of one nature that is essentially only divine, because the coming together of divine and human natures resulted in the former’s complete consumption and domination of the latter. This position is condemned by the Oriental Orthodox churches. Their miaphytism does speak of, in the words of St. Cyril of Alexandria, “one nature of the Word of God incarnate”, but the key point is that this nature is in itself of two natures. They teach that the human and divine natures combined into one new nature that perfectly expressed each of them without confusion and without alteration. Christ is of one nature, but that nature is the perfect unity of his human and divine natures – he is fully God and fully man in one nature.

The use of “monophysite” in referring to this belief is now seen as outdated and is sometimes taken with some offence by Oriental Orthodox. Recent ecumenical dialogue between Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches has shown that both sides are on the whole quite happy to accept that they are of equivalent Christology, but that they still disagree on other matters.

From the common declaration of Pope John Paul II and the Syrian Orthodox Patriarch of Antioch, Mar Ignatius Zakka I Iwas (vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/anc-orient-ch-docs/rc_pc_christuni_doc_19840623_jp-ii-zakka-i_en.html)
The confusions and schisms that occurred between their Churches in the later centuries, they realize today, in no way affect or touch the substance of their faith, since these arose only because of differences in terminology and culture and in the various formulae adopted by different theological schools to express the same matter.
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Accordingly, we find today no real basis for the sad divisions and schisms that subsequently arose between us concerning the doctrine of Incarnation.
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In words and life we confess the true doctrine concerning Christ our Lord, notwithstanding the differences in interpretation of such a doctrine which arose at the time of the Council of Chalcedon.
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I think that, in view of such agreeable ecumenical statements, it would be a shame to portray their Christological views as heretical.
 
Bezant said:
Robert Spencer is not an Islamic scholar–at all. He is also the director of Jihad Watch, which is hardly a fair or academic “source” on Islam.

FNR, if you’re going to suggest that your friend read books or articles that are critical of Islam, make sure that they come from serious authors.
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Robert Spencer was recommended to me by a Muslim convert to the faith. He recommended because this person considered him to give the most accurate analysis about Islam and its problems. If you read his books and follow his sources which I have, they are all islamic and he goes to the top scholars and schools of Islam. Likewise, Robert Spencer has learned Arabic which if one is serious about Islam, that is what you are suppose to read the Koran in, not in the one’s own language. Robert Spencer has also been interviewed on Catholic Answers live so he is even a source that is used by our own. It all goes back to mohammed and if one considers him a true prophet of God or not. For someone who is considering Islam, you are going to have to decide if he is what they are claiming he is. If you just look at his life, the wars, he marries and has sex with a nine year old, he takes his daughter in law from his adopted son to be his wife because he claimed Allah told him to as well as his multiple wives. How the angle Gabriel supposedly came to him. The supposed physical conditions he went into when he was receiving his revelations from God which sound rather horrible. The fact that revelations changed from one to another in order to allow Mohammed to basically do what he wants.The conflict between parts of the Koran as well as the hadiths and sunnahs that follow. The Koran itself doesn’t come into being until much much later, much later than our own scripture.
Just because someone out there is finally trying to take a serious and critical analysis of Mohammed and the origin of Islam should be discussed and with pointed out to someone who is confused and hurting and thinking of joining.
 
fnr said:
A friend of mine who’s had a very hard life has been recently the target of Muslim evangelization efforts. Now that friend is seriously studying Islam and is considering converstion.

This friend is a “non-denominational” Protestant. Can anyone provide me with some good references or tips?

Thanks!
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Well, you need to start with what your friend’s issues are. What is appealing in Islam?

Based on the very little you’ve told us, I’d start with the crucifixion of Jesus, which Muslims generally deny. Don’t get drawn into a discussion of the divinity of Jesus or the Trinity considered apart from the Cross.

The Christian faith is that God shared our suffering on the Cross.

Historically, whether one believes in Jesus’ divinity or not, the fact that He died on the Cross is the thing least debated about him.

So I think that’s the best place to start both historically/apologetically and theologically/personally.

But without more information it’s hard to say more.

Edwin
 
robwar said:
Robert Spencer was recommended to me by a Muslim convert to the faith. He recommended because this person considered him to give the most accurate analysis about Islam and its problems. If you read his books and follow his sources which I have, they are all islamic and he goes to the top scholars and schools of Islam. Likewise, Robert Spencer has learned Arabic which if one is serious about Islam, that is what you are suppose to read the Koran in, not in the one’s own language. Robert Spencer has also been interviewed on Catholic Answers live so he is even a source that is used by our own.
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You are assuming that because Spencer knows some things about Islam, and that an ex-Muslim thinks Spencer knows Islam, that Spencer is an Islamic scholar. In fact he has no academic qualifications in Islamic studies; his expertise, from what I’ve looked up, is in Christianity. It’s a bit like saying Dan Brown is a Catholic scholar because researched Church history and Opus Dei for the Da Vinci Code.
robwar said:
Just because someone out there is finally trying to take a serious and critical analysis of Mohammed and the origin of Islam should be discussed and with pointed out to someone who is confused and hurting and thinking of joining.
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The question is, do you want sound explanations to look for an answer, or have you already decided your answer and are searching for a sound explanation to support it?

If it’s the second option, I think that’s rather unfair and dishonest.
 
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Contarini:
The Christian faith is that God shared our suffering on the Cross.
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Perhaps more significantly, the concept that God, revealed Himself, not just to one person as in Islam, but rather He revealed Himself to an entire generation of people, who had historically and prophetically been the “chosen” people of this very same God. Then that this God, HIMSELF, takes on flesh so that he can REVEAL himself to HIS beloved followers. This is a God of Love. Not an unknowable, and unrevealing God that sternly (and almost irrationally) expects all of mankind to take on faith the words of just ONE man, who had NO OTHER credentials or previous prophecies foretelling his arrival!
 
Bezant said:
You are assuming that because Spencer knows some things about Islam, and that an ex-Muslim thinks Spencer knows Islam, that Spencer is an Islamic scholar. In fact he has no academic qualifications in Islamic studies; his expertise, from what I’ve looked up, is in Christianity. It’s a bit like saying Dan Brown is a Catholic scholar because researched Church history and Opus Dei for the Da Vinci Code.
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To be fair, I don’t think Spencer is in the same category as Brown at all. Brown shows no signs of having any understanding of early Christianity at all. If the opinions expressed by certain characters in DaVinci Code are his (and that’s the indication), he thinks that people thought Jesus was just human before the Arian controversy, that the divinity of Jesus was decided by one vote, etc. He doesn’t understand the difference between Coptic and Syriac. One could go on and on.

Spencer doesn’t commit these kinds of howlers. At the same time, it’s important to note that as you say he’s not an academic expert on Islam–he studies it solely in order to attack it, and that doesn’t give one a good basis for a fair understanding.

I would put him more in the category of someone like James White.

Edwin
 
AmbroseSJ said:
Perhaps more significantly, the concept that God, revealed Himself, not just to one person as in Islam, but rather He revealed Himself to an entire generation of people, who had historically and prophetically been the “chosen” people of this very same God. Then that this God, HIMSELF, takes on flesh so that he can REVEAL himself to HIS beloved followers. This is a God of Love. Not an unknowable, and unrevealing God that sternly (and almost irrationally) expects all of mankind to take on faith the words of just ONE man, who had NO OTHER credentials or previous prophecies foretelling his arrival!
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That consideration may be more significant to you.

It isn’t more significant to me, and I’m going on the only bit of information we’ve been given about this person beyond the fact that he’s non-denominational Protestant: that he has had a hard life. Given that information, I focused on what I thought was the most relevant point of difference (but admittedly I think it’s the most important myself, on general principles).

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
That consideration may be more significant to you.

It isn’t more significant to me, and I’m going on the only bit of information we’ve been given about this person beyond the fact that he’s non-denominational Protestant: that he has had a hard life. Given that information, I focused on what I thought was the most relevant point of difference (but admittedly I think it’s the most important myself, on general principles).

Edwin
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Your point is well taken. I supposed that Christians too often get distracted by certain details of one religion as opposed to another, while not keeping the “big picture” in mind. 😉
 
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