Help me understand about non-Catholics & the Bible (Edited Title)

[brierpatch1974]

Help me understand something. The books of the bible were written by men inspired by the holy spirit. The first bible was was gathered together by the Church. The Catholic Bible has more books than the others. So why do Prodestants think that the holy bible was inspired by God but only the books that are in it. Why do the refuse to admit that their KJV of the bible is not the original works inspired by God. They claim that the extra books in the Catholic bible were not inspired by God. How can they think this when it is the original ?

No matter what denomination people are they can not deny the fact that without the Catholic Church there would be no Christianity of any denominations. IS it stuborness or just a lack of education that make people continue to argue against the Catholic bible and it being the First Church?

 

[franc1sc0]

Help me understand something. The books of the bible were written by men inspired by the holy spirit. The first bible was was gathered together by the Church. The Catholic Bible has more books than the others. So why do Prodestants think that the holy bible was inspired by God but only the books that are in it. Why do the refuse to admit that their KJV of the bible is not the original works inspired by God. They claim that the extra books in the Catholic bible were not inspired by God. How can they think this when it is the original ?

No matter what denomination people are they can not deny the fact that without the Catholic Church there would be no Christianity of any denominations. IS it stuborness or just a lack of education that make people continue to argue against the Catholic bible and it being the First Church?

In my case it was hard to admit that My grandfather and uncle who are Methodist Ministers where not totally right and that the Church I had been attending all my life wasn’t teaching the Truth in all things.

 

[pablope]

Help me understand something. The books of the bible were written by men inspired by the holy spirit. The first bible was was gathered together by the Church. The Catholic Bible has more books than the others. So why do Prodestants think that the holy bible was inspired by God but only the books that are in it. Why do the refuse to admit that their KJV of the bible is not the original works inspired by God. They claim that the extra books in the Catholic bible were not inspired by God. How can they think this when it is the original ?

No matter what denomination people are they can not deny the fact that without the Catholic Church there would be no Christianity of any denominations. IS it stuborness or just a lack of education that make people continue to argue against the Catholic bible and it being the First Church?

From my experience, it is misconceptions fueled by anti-catholic bias and reading anti-catholic websites. I was lassoed into a discussion group on FB by a friend who wanted help answering them. Their hatred is so ingrained fueled by what they read. I have debunked some of the material they have presented as false, and I am labeled as immature, a liar and dishonest.

 

[aicirt]

Help me understand something. The books of the bible were written by men inspired by the holy spirit. The first bible was was gathered together by the Church. The Catholic Bible has more books than the others. So why do Prodestants think that the holy bible was inspired by God but only the books that are in it. Why do the refuse to admit that their KJV of the bible is not the original works inspired by God. They claim that the extra books in the Catholic bible were not inspired by God. How can they think this when it is the original ?

No matter what denomination people are they can not deny the fact that without the Catholic Church there would be no Christianity of any denominations. IS it stuborness or just a lack of education that make people continue to argue against the Catholic bible and it being the First Church?

I believe it has to do with the extra books being written in Greek and not in Hebrew. I think the dispute is because of the language in which they were written… The Jews who wrote the books in question lived in Alexandra, Egypt. We accepted them but the Protestants tossed them out. In these books, is the justification for Purgatory.

 

[JRKH]

Help me understand something. The books of the bible were written by men inspired by the holy spirit. The first bible was was gathered together by the Church. The Catholic Bible has more books than the others. So why do Protestants think that the holy bible was inspired by God but only the books that are in it.

Because they believe what they have been taught by their ministers and the ministers believe what they were taught by their seminaries or divinity school or whatever.

Why do the refuse to admit that their KJV of the bible is not the original works inspired by God.

In many cases they simply do not know…

They claim that the extra books in the Catholic bible were not inspired by God. How can they think this when it is the original ?

This begins to get a bit more complicated…
As mentioned above there is the matter that the deuterocanonical books are only known in Greek…not in Hebrew (though I think that is changing).
The Catholic Bible canon was established using the Septuagint - a Greek language OT that was widely used by the Jews outside of Palestine. The Protestants reject this and use an OT canon based on the one established a the council of Jamnia (sp?)…But there seems to be some considerable debate in all of this…

I might add that the EO bible has more books in it than the RC bible…and this difference never led to any serious friction between East and West that I know of.

No matter what denomination people are they can not deny the fact that without the Catholic Church there would be no Christianity of any denominations.

Actually some can and do deny just this…

IS it stuborness or just a lack of education that make people continue to argue against the Catholic bible and it being the First Church?

The main culprit is education. I won’t say the lack of it but rather the style of it and this varies from denomination to denomination.

Peace
James

 

[DavidFilmer]

Why do the refuse to admit that their KJV of the bible is not the original works inspired by God. They claim that the extra books in the Catholic bible were not inspired by God. How can they think this when it is the original ?

It would be nice if they did think the KJV represented the original Canon. Because **the original 1611 KJV includes the (so-called) apocrypha! **You can buy complete KJV Bibles on Amazon - they are still widely in-print from many publishers.

In fact, EVERY protestant Bible up until the 1880’s included the apocrypha. This includes Tyndale-Matthews Bible, the Great Bible, the Bishops Bible, the Geneva Bible, and the KJV. You can still buy complete versions of all these Bibles (though the Bishop’s Bible can be hard to find).

Before the 1880’s (less than a century and a half ago), every Bible, Catholic and Protestant, had all 80 books. Now most protestant Bibles have only 66 books, including modern translations such as the NIV, for which the apocrypha was never translated (although it’s hardly right to call the NIV a translation - it’s more like an interpretation). Most modern protestant Bibles are not available in complete editions, but their older counterparts are.

 

[steve_b]

Help me understand something. The books of the bible were written by men inspired by the holy spirit.

True, and begging for explanation, …true?
b:

The first bible was was gathered together by the Church. The Catholic Bible has more books than the others.

I would just add, not only gathered by, but written by, & to the Catholic Church. The writers of the NT were all in the Church.
b:

So why do Prodestants think that the holy bible was inspired by God

good question. Who told THEM this? And why do they believe it?
b:

but only the books that are in it.

another good question.
b:

Why do they refuse to admit that their KJV of the bible is not the original works inspired by God. They claim that the extra books in the Catholic bible were not inspired by God. How can they think this when it is the original ?

you’re on a roll

btw, the KJV if that’s what you meant, is far from the original. And since the OT was written pointing to Jesus, I think Jesus’ Church should know what books of the OT are canonical.
b:

No matter what denomination people are they can not deny the fact that without the Catholic Church there would be no Christianity of any denominations.

True.
b:

IS it stuborness or just a lack of education that make people continue to argue against the Catholic bible and it being the First Church?

Jesus answered that question IMO, in the upper room the night His passion began.

Lk 22: ( the last supper)24 a dispute arose among them as to which of them was considered to be greatest. 25Jesus said to them, “The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. 26But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves. … 31"Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you (this is plural meaning all of them) as wheat. 32But I have prayed for you,(singular) Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you (singular) have turned back, strengthen (in Greek *sterizo) your brothers.”

• Since Jesus tells Peter, Satan has asked to sift all like wheat, and Satan already entered Judas earlier in the evening, Therefore Satan had already been permitted to sift and Jesus is just now telling them of it. So Satan has been there all the time the apostles were being chosen, during the 3 years they were being taught by Jesus, during the last supper, and all the time, only Jesus could see him. Satan even got the apostles in an argument over who was the greatest among THEM at this point after the last supper and before Jesus took them out to the garden of Gethsemene.
• All this division you see in Christianity is Satan sifting. People are being sifted like crazy. Being connected to Peter and remaining conected, is the way our Lord set it up for our benefit. That requires perseverence on our part to remain connected regardless of how hard that is… Sometimes it requires heroic perseverence. Peter and in extension, his successors (the popes of Rome), have Jesus praying for them so their faith won’t fail them. I have to believe Jesus 100% and that His prayer is 100% effective. Without that belief, staying connected to Peter, people sucumb to the sifting of Satan, and get lost.

Therefore, All the division is Satan sifting people away from the Catholic Church.

 

[Ignatius]

Help me understand something. The books of the bible were written by men inspired by the holy spirit. The first bible was was gathered together by the Church. The Catholic Bible has more books than the others. So why do Prodestants think that the holy bible was inspired by God but only the books that are in it. Why do the refuse to admit that their KJV of the bible is not the original works inspired by God. They claim that the extra books in the Catholic bible were not inspired by God. How can they think this when it is the original ?

Actually, even the original KJV of 1611 had all of the same books as the Catholic bible does now.

 

[Mystophilus]

Help me understand something. The books of the bible were written by men inspired by the holy spirit. The first bible was was gathered together by the Church. The Catholic Bible has more books than the others. So why do Prodestants think that the holy bible was inspired by God but only the books that are in it.

The Protestant rejection of the deuterocanonical books actually goes back to St Jerome, the one who translated and compiled the original Latin Vulgate in the C4th-5th. He could not find Hebrew originals for those books, and so wanted to throw them out entirely, but the Roman believers were in the habit of using them and so he gave them what they wanted but with prefaces wherein he complains about it. The Protestants accepted what he said, and threw the books out in their attempt to get back to the original form of the Scriptures.

Why do the refuse to admit that their KJV of the bible is not the original works inspired by God?

I have met KJVonlyists who have claimed that the Bible texts were only ever written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek so that they could be translated into the KJV, God’s intended version. No amount or fashion of arguing can dissuade someone from such a belief, but it is the belief only of a very tiny minority.

No matter what denomination people are they can not deny the fact that without the Catholic Church there would be no Christianity of any denominations. IS it stuborness or just a lack of education that make people continue to argue against the Catholic bible and it being the First Church?

How many people in the Catholic Church today were alive when the Bible was compiled? Your church today is not the original Church: it is a descendant of the original Church, as are the Orthodox, and also all of the many and various Protestant groups. We all come from there, merely on paths of differing lengths.

 

[DavidFilmer]

The Protestant rejection of the deuterocanonical books actually goes back to St Jerome, the one who translated and compiled the original Latin Vulgate in the C4th-5th. He could not find Hebrew originals for those books, and so wanted to throw them out entirely, but the Roman believers were in the habit of using them and so he gave them what they wanted but with prefaces wherein he complains about it.

This is only partially true.

The deuterocanonical books were originally written in Greek (not Hebrew), because they were written after 400 BC, when most Jews spoke Greek, and not Hebrew (these were the Hellenistic Jews, or the Jews of the Diaspora).

This is why the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Hebrew Canon, prepared for the Library in Alexandria) obviously includes the deuterocanonical books, which required no translation, as they were originally written in Greek. The Septuagint is a valuable resource for Biblical scholars to understand the contextual relationship between the Old Testament and the New Testament (which was written entirely in Greek, with the possible exception of an early draft of the Gospel of Matthew, which was said (by Josephus) to have been written in “the language of the Hebrews” but for which no manuscript has survived).

The (Greek) New Testament quotes the Old Testament 150 times. Two-thirds of these quotes come directly from the (Greek) Septuagint.

The Protestants accepted what he said, and threw the books out in their attempt to get back to the original form of the Scriptures.

Jerome never said that the deuterocanonical books were not valid. They were part of the Christian Canon of his time, and he never called them into question.

I have met KJVonlyists who have claimed that the Bible texts were only ever written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek so that they could be translated into the KJV, God’s intended version. No amount or fashion of arguing can dissuade someone from such a belief, but it is the belief only of a very tiny minority.

Since the deuterocanonical books were originally written in Greek (as was the whole New Testament), one might say that these books could, indeed, be translated into the KJV. And they were (as I have already pointed out in this thread).

 

[Mystophilus]

The deuterocanonical books were originally written in Greek (not Hebrew), because they were written after 400 BC, when most Jews spoke Greek, and not Hebrew (these were the Hellenistic Jews, or the Jews of the Diaspora).

Not so much. The Hellenization of the eastern Mediterranean dates from Alexander’s little adventure, and thus starts c.320 BC. At this time, the Jews still spoke Hebrew predominantly, as is evident from the Hebraisms rampant in the LXX (the Septuagint), my favourite being in Genesis 6:14. Greek gradually pervaded the society, eventually becoming the language of international communication around the eastern Mediterranean, although its degree of influence upon everyday society is very difficult to ascertain at any given point. There is, for example, some argument regarding how fluent Paul was in Hebrew.

The Jewish Diaspora, BTW, happened in AD 70, when Vespasian retook Jerusalem and banished the Jewish people from their homeland. The Exile happened back in the early C6th BC, when many were taken to Babylon.

This is why the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Hebrew Canon, prepared for the Library in Alexandria) obviously includes the deuterocanonical books

Not exactly. The Septuagint has no “canon”, strictly speaking, and exists in a variety of forms, but many of those include not just “deuterocanonical” books, but also “apocryphal” ones such as 3 and 4 Maccabees.

the Gospel of Matthew, which was said (by Josephus) to have been written in “the language of the Hebrews”

This was Papias and then Irenaeus, not Josephus.

Jerome never said that the deuterocanonical books were not valid. They were part of the Christian Canon of his time, and he never called them into question.

This is utterly untrue, as is self-evident from the prefaces which he himself wrote in the Vulgate. Those are available in translation here.

Since the deuterocanonical books were originally written in Greek

Actually, there is considerable argument regarding the original language of a few of them. Sirach, in particular, is now widely suspected to have been written in Hebrew first.

these books could, indeed, be translated into the KJV. And they were (as I have already pointed out in this thread).

This is true for some editions of the KJV, but they are separated off as “apocrypha”, and it is really not relevant, because the OP’s question regarded why Protestants rejected them.

 

[onemangang]

This is only partially true.

The deuterocanonical books were originally written in Greek (not Hebrew), because they were written after 400 BC, when most Jews spoke Greek, and not Hebrew (these were the Hellenistic Jews, or the Jews of the Diaspora).).

Not so fast DF, I think that you left an important fact out. Not all the deuterocanonical books were only written in Greek, infact from the findings of the Dead Sea Scrolls of Qumran, there are a few of the Deuterocanonical books written in Hebrew, and parts in Aramaic

Sirach was found in Hebrew
Book of Tobit was found in Hebrew and in Aramaic
the Epistle of Jeremiah (Baruch 6) is found in Greek

 

[Kennyj]

Comes down to infallibility of the bible or tradition.

We all agree on so much as Christians, so to disagree on secondary issues like purgatory and praying to Saints seems immaterial