Help me with Immaculate Conception

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Help me understand the Immaculate Conception. Why do we believe that Mary was conceived w/o original sin? Give me some good stuff to read, please. The Assumption makes sense to me; I have to admit the IC does not. :confused: I mean, how do we really KNOW?

(Please be gentle. I was on a traditionalist list once and they got angry at me for even daring to ask this question…“How dare you think the mother of God had stain of sin” type of attitude.)
 
Keep Learning,

You realize today is a Holy Day of Obligation? Do you know why it is?

I will do my best to come back with the information you need on the dogma of the IC. Its okay if you dont understand it, but once it is explained to you, you really need to pray about this and I suggest taking this to Mary and going to Mass tonight if your parish (as most do!) has a evening service today.

Your questions may be answered by Mary in Mass.
 
Hi.
I did go to Mass this morning.
Thank you in advance for the info.
 
KeepLearning said:
Help me understand the Immaculate Conception. Why do we believe that Mary was conceived w/o original sin? Give me some good stuff to read, please. The Assumption makes sense to me; I have to admit the IC does not. :confused: I mean, how do we really KNOW?

(Please be gentle. I was on a traditionalist list once and they got angry at me for even daring to ask this question…“How dare you think the mother of God had stain of sin” type of attitude.)
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We know because Christ continues to teach us through His One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Acceptance in Faith of what He teaches through her, His Bride, is the quickest way to deeper knowledge of what He would have us believe and how He would have us live.

But to your primary question, Jesus was/is God and it would not be possible for him to assume a human nature that was was not already perfect.* If he received a redeemed nature himself either by preventing the fall of his nature during conception or by cleansing it afterwards, then he could not actually be the redeemer of all mankind.* He would himself need a redeemer.

By Mary possessing a perfect human nature from the moment of her conception in anticipation of the merits of Christ, Jesus received his human nature directly from her already in a pristine state.* The pristine nature that he received from Mary did not need to be redeemed.

I think these articles on the development of this dogma will be helpful:

bringyou.to/apologetics/a28.htm

bringyou.to/apologetics/a115.htm
 
In the old testament,
the Ark of the Covenant contained the tablets of the Law of Moses, the priests staff of Aaron, and a jar of the Bread or manna from heaven.
To hold these sacred things, the ark was gilded with pure gold inside and outside.

Mary, like a human Ark of the Covenant, carried the true High Priest, Jesus, in her womb and gave HER FLESH to him for him to become man. She carried the TRUE Bread or Manna from Heaven, Jesus, inside her and her flesh was assumed by him for his own body. As a fulfillment of the old testament type (the Ark), Mary too had to be SPIRITUALLY gilded with gold inside and out, meaning she had to be 100% pure and without sin. After all, God PUT enmity between her and the Devil.

I hope the above helps somewhat.
God bless,
Jaypeeto3 (aka Jaypeeto4)
 
After you’ve seen what the Catechism says about it:
**The Immaculate Conception **
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490 To become the mother of the Savior, Mary “was enriched by God with gifts appropriate to such a role.” The angel Gabriel at the moment of the annunciation salutes her as “full of grace”. In fact, in order for Mary to be able to give the free assent of her faith to the announcement of her vocation, it was necessary that she be wholly borne by God’s grace.
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491 Through the centuries the Church has become ever more aware that Mary, “full of grace” through God, was redeemed from the moment of her conception. That is what the dogma of the Immaculate Conception confesses, as Pope Pius IX proclaimed in 1854:
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The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin.
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492 The “splendor of an entirely unique holiness” by which Mary is “enriched from the first instant of her conception” comes wholly from Christ: she is “redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son”. The Father blessed Mary more than any other created person “in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places” and chose her “in Christ before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before him in love”.
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493 The Fathers of the Eastern tradition call the Mother of God “the All-Holy” (Panagia), and celebrate her as “free from any stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature”. By the grace of God Mary remained free of every personal sin her whole life long.
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…Try these:

Immaculate Conception
(From the Catholic Encyclopedia-- kind of long, but very in-depth)
newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm

**Immaculate Conception and Assumption
How to Defend the Immaculate Conception **
(From Catholic Answers)
catholic.com/library/immaculate_conception_and_assum.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0102sbs.asp

The Immaculate Conception – Satan’s Mighty Foe
rosary-center.org/ll50n6.htm
 
The Immaculate Conception confirms our belief that Jesus was truly God.

In order to transport the written Word of God the Ark of the Covenant was special because of what was to be contained inside.
In the same way Mary was made special because of what she was going to have inside her, which is God.

If it was just any other person being born then any sinful person could bear them, but this is God entering our world.

Not only is this an affirmation of us believing that Jesus is God, but part of the understanding of the faith which is a complete understanding that would contradict itself if we didn’t believe parts like the Immaculate Conception.

In Christ
Scylla
 
Lots for me to mull over. Will get back with further questions.
 
Think in terms of Full of Grace as so filled with the Holy Spirit that it was overflowing, Full of Holy Spirit right from the start- and to her last breath here.

Think about why this is an obstacle to you due to your human understanding - if you can accept the Trinity you can accept this.

Dont have objections that lead you to conclude that if the theology behind it is hard to grasp it has to be wrong—

This is what happens in other faiths. They limit the holy and sacred to human terms and understandings.

Dont make that mistake.
 
If God could keep Mary sinless although conceived of a sinner (St. Anne), then had Mary been a sinner, God could’ve kept Jesus sinless in the same manner.
 
cygnusdei said:
If God could keep Mary sinless although conceived of a sinner (St. Anne), then had Mary been a sinner, God could’ve kept Jesus sinless in the same manner.
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The Immaculate Conception was not about “keeping Jesus sinless.” The primary reason Mary was granted this extraordinary privilige was, not for her own sake or by her own merits, or to prevent transmission of sin to Jesus, but because of its fittingness – that the All Holy God of the Universe come in human flesh should have a consecrated and pure vessel from which to take His materiality and to reside and be nourished until his birth. This is why the Church has also referred to Mary as Theotokos – or God-bearer, the Mother of God.

If this seems superflous straw-splitting, I invite you to ponder the concept of Mary as *Ark of the New Covenant *by srarting with this article and it’s sidebar:

catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0510fea5.asp
catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0510fea5sb1.asp
 
cygnusdei said:
If God could keep Mary sinless although conceived of a sinner (St. Anne), then had Mary been a sinner, God could’ve kept Jesus sinless in the same manner.
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See, this is what I keep thinking too…
off to read some more
 
cygnusdei said:
If God could keep Mary sinless although conceived of a sinner (St. Anne), then had Mary been a sinner, God could’ve kept Jesus sinless in the same manner.
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Of course, God could have kept Jesus sinless without Mary having been Immaculate. God can do anything. Catholic theology does not state that Mary HAD to be born sinless in order for Jesus to be born sinless. Only that God willed her to be sinless because it was fitting. God wanted an utterly pure and holy vessel as His sacred dwelling place for those nine months. This should be no surpise considering His requirements for purity and holiness in the other vessel for His Written Word–the Ark of the Covenent. Why would we expect less purity from the living vessel which contained His Word–Jesus?
 
God “could have kept Jesus sinless”???:confused: :confused: :confused:

Theology 101 folks-

Jesus was God! Hello!

How ridiculous this is? Come on! I can keep myself from being me?

Does not anyone understand the implications to the Trinity here when speaking of Jesus as seperate from God???:eek:
 
Damascus said:
God “could have kept Jesus sinless”???:confused: :confused: :confused:

Theology 101 folks-

Jesus was God! Hello!

How ridiculous this is? Come on! I can keep myself from being me?

Does not anyone understand the implications to the Trinity here when speaking of Jesus as seperate from God???:eek:
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No need to bite my head off. Since you have clearly mastered Theology 101, perhaps Charity 101 will be next?

I did not mean to imply Jesus is separate from God. When I used the word “God” in my post, I was referring to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit…not just Jesus. “Jesus could have made Himself sinless” might have led one to believe that the Father and the Holy Spirit had nothing to do with it. Hence, I said “God could have made Jesus sinless…” in an effort to refer to the Trinity… my intention was exactly opposite of the conclusion you came to. I’ll try to be more articulate in the future.
 
Originally Posted by cygnusdei
If God could keep Mary sinless although conceived of a sinner (St. Anne), then had Mary been a sinner, God could’ve kept Jesus sinless in the same manner.
KeepLearning said:
See, this is what I keep thinking too…
off to read some more
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You must have missed Post #14.🙂
 
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