Help me with Immaculate Conception

[KeepLearning]

Originally Posted by cygnusdei
If God could keep Mary sinless although conceived of a sinner (St. Anne), then had Mary been a sinner, God could’ve kept Jesus sinless in the same manner.
You must have missed Post #14.

No, I didn’t.

 

[Fidelis]

No, I didn’t.

Sorry – make that Post #15.

 

[KeepLearning]

Well, it still doesn’t dawn on me why Mary had to be sinless, but I’ll keep trying…

 

[Kay_Cee]

Well, it still doesn’t dawn on me why Mary had to be sinless, but I’ll keep trying…

As has been pointed out by other posters above, Mary did not *have to be *sinless. The Church never claims this. The Church says it was *fitting *that she be sinless.

Perhaps the fact you worded it that way (“had to be sinless”) indicates you’re thinking of it that way. Perhaps that’s why you’re having trouble understanding.

 

[Proeliator]

My wife, who is not Catholic, says "…There was not reason for Mary to be born sinless. When the Holy Spirit overshadowed her the “God-man” was the sinless one. Seems outrageous, I know. When all someone has is sola scriptura it is hard to grasp any teaching from our early Church Fathers and our modern day Holy Fathers(JP2). To her, “Full of Grace” doesn’t mean born without original sin. They can not grasp it. I must say some posts here have helped me understand better so next time the topic comes up, if it does, I will be more educated.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

Well, it still doesn’t dawn on me why Mary had to be sinless, but I’ll keep trying…

She did not have to be, God wanted her to be. This is not surprising to me because it is clear from the entire Bible that God does not want to dwell intimately with impurity. In fact, the whole reason we need a Savior is because we cannot be admitted into Heaven to live with God without having our sins “washed away”. As has been stated, God’s dwelling place in the Old Testament was considered completely Holy. Only the High Priest could even go in the Tent (I think only once per year.) Now we think of Mary and quite frankly there is no one on earth that had a more intimate relationship with God. I do not mean that in a sexual way, lest someone misunderstand (and there is at least one religion that believes that). I mean that that Holy Spirit overshadowed her and she conceived the Son of God, who dwelled within her for nine months. What doesn’t make sense to me is how Mary could conceive the Son of God without being Immaculate. It does not make sense to me, personally, that every other dwelling place of the Lord has to be pure and holy, but Mary does not.

I believe that the answers to Mary’s Immaculate Conception are revealed mostly in the Old Testament with some help from the New Testament, of course. I don’t know why God chose to reveal it in this way. The mystics say that it was because of Mary’s humility that more was not written about her in the New Testament…but of course we are not bound to believe what the mystics say. It does make sense that God would slowly reveal the truth about Mary. In the old days it would have been too tempting to elevate Mary too high and worship her in a goddess fashion, since there was a lot of that going on back then. Heck, I believe that some Catholics go to far with Mary during the present age. (Don’t jump on me, fellow Catholics, because it is true…I actually had a fellow Catholic tell me that the whole time she was growing up she thought Mary was worshipped. Poor catechism, I know) For anyone truly seeking the truth about Mary, I would recommend reading any of the OT that talks about the tabernacle or the ark. ScriptureCatholic.com has some information here. Also, Dave Armstrongs site has a ton of info. Of course, before you read any of this, pray to Our Lady to reveal the truth about herself to you. She will help you understand, believe me!