Help! Misleading NFP Signals?

[Ludwig_Isidore]

When trying to delay pregnancy, my wife and I use the sympto-thermal method of natural family planning. However the signals seem to reflect an impossibly-long fertile window each cycle. At least when compared to the picture painted by the NFP-classes, it seems impossibly-long.

After 5 years of charting (in between babies), a typical cycle is 30-32 days, where “Phase II Fertility” often runs from day 7-28. “Peak” usually occurs around day 24, according to both temperature and mucus readings.

That’s three long weeks.

Is anyone aware of an alternate NFP method (other than sympto-thermal) that may allow us to more accurately know when to abstain? Or is it possible that’s actually the window we need to abstain for?

(Before anyone asks: Yes, we pray about it. And, yes we know what constitutes valid reasons for delaying pregnancy. I genuinely appreciate the intentions of anyone inclined to start with those two questions. We’re really just looking for concrete, physical suggestions and advice in this thread.)

 

[Maine52]

Well, I’ve tried different methods of NFP, and the window requiring abstinence you are describing is pretty average, in my experience. Your wife is certainly not fertile for that entire time, but abstaining that whole time earns NFP methods their 98% effectiveness rate. If only science could get to the point of identifying the ONLY days that are truly fertile, but since science isn’t quite there yet, additional days have to be considered “fertile” in order to make the systems work reliably. I wish I had a better answer.

 

[CatholicRaven]

I don’t know if it would help you, but I believe there is a method that uses Ovulation test kits. It’s possible there are subtle fertile/non-fertile signs that your wife could be missing (I did), so perhaps you would only need to use them for a while, to learn to recognize those signs.

Have you spoken to your local NFP instructor to help you with your situation? They may be able to offer other information that could help.

Will pray for you.

 

[Maine52]

I don’t know if it would help you, but I believe there is a method that uses Ovulation test kits. It’s possible there are subtle fertile/non-fertile signs that your wife could be missing (I did), so perhaps you would only need to use them for a while, to learn to recognize those signs.

Have you spoken to your local NFP instructor to help you with your situation? They may be able to offer other information that could help.

Will pray for you.

Perhaps you are referring to the Marquette Method, which uses the Clearblue Fertility Monitor? The average amount of abstinence per cycle for that method is about 15-20 days in my experience, at least during the first 6 months of use. After that, there are more infertile days, but it’s still a pretty lengthy “fertile window.”

 

[CatholicRaven]

Perhaps you are referring to the Marquette Method, which uses the Clearblue Fertility Monitor? The average amount of abstinence per cycle for that method is about 15-20 days in my experience, at least during the first 6 months of use. After that, there are more infertile days, but it’s still a pretty lengthy “fertile window.”

I would assume that’s the one. I actually have not used the method myself, but have used the kits in the past to help me decipher my fertile signs more accurately. Then later, I’d heard about the method itself from friends, who have told me it’s given them more infertile days, so that’s why I mentioned it here. I didn’t realize it was only a few more days… but I guess even that “little bit extra” might be helpful for some couples.

 

[smokedog]

Stress, real or perceived, can result in prolonged mucus “ovulation” symptoms, in my experience…

 

[PaulGH]

When trying to delay pregnancy, my wife and I use the sympto-thermal method of natural family planning. However the signals seem to reflect an impossibly-long fertile window each cycle. At least when compared to the picture painted by the NFP-classes, it seems impossibly-long.

After 5 years of charting (in between babies), a typical cycle is 30-32 days, where “Phase II Fertility” often runs from day 7-28. “Peak” usually occurs around day 24, according to both temperature and mucus readings.

That’s three long weeks.

Is anyone aware of an alternate NFP method (other than sympto-thermal) that may allow us to more accurately know when to abstain? Or is it possible that’s actually the window we need to abstain for?

(Before anyone asks: Yes, we pray about it. And, yes we know what constitutes valid reasons for delaying pregnancy. I genuinely appreciate the intentions of anyone inclined to start with those two questions. We’re really just looking for concrete, physical suggestions and advice in this thread.)

That does sound like too long an abstinence period. If I recall correctly what I have read in NFP books, ovulation typically happens 12 to 16 days before the end of the woman’s cycle. So if your wife’s cycles are 30 to 32 days, that would imply that she is really ovulating somewhere in the range of day 14 to day 20, rather than day 24. However, if the signs point to ovulation on day 24, you certainly shouldn’t ignore them!

I can think of three things to suggest:

• You might try the Marquette Method, which uses a fertility monitor, with the option of also using mucus as a cross-check.
• You could try the Creighton Model. It is mucus-only, but the instructions may be more clear and exact than the method you are currently using. Plus it is typically done under the supervision of a doctor or other medical professional, so you might have better support in interpreting the mucus.
• You could consult with an NFP instructor, to see if there is anything you should be doing differently with your current method.

I will also mention that I think NFP instructors and books often paint a bit too rosy a picture of how long couples should expect to abstain. My wife and I typically have to abstain from day 9 up to and including about day 19 to 21, out of a 27 to 29 day cycle. So that is 11 to 13 days of abstinence (and occasionally as long as 16 days), versus claims of 7-10 days or even less which I have heard from various NFP sources.

That also doesn’t take into account that if we strictly follow the rules of the Billings Method (which we use), we would have to abstain during several days of menstruation – and we usually would choose to abstain during that time anyway. Overall, we effectively have only about 13 available days in an approximately 28-day cycle – so only about half the time. I’m not complaining though – in fact, it really seems like we have more days than that. I’m just pointing out that NFP abstinence claims don’t always work out that way in real life.

But it sounds like your abstinence is a LOT longer than what is typically claimed, so you may want to try one of the options I suggested, or others here will probably have good suggestions too.

 

[Xantippe]

When trying to delay pregnancy, my wife and I use the sympto-thermal method of natural family planning. However the signals seem to reflect an impossibly-long fertile window each cycle. At least when compared to the picture painted by the NFP-classes, it seems impossibly-long.

After 5 years of charting (in between babies), a typical cycle is 30-32 days, where “Phase II Fertility” often runs from day 7-28. “Peak” usually occurs around day 24, according to both temperature and mucus readings.

That’s three long weeks.

Is anyone aware of an alternate NFP method (other than sympto-thermal) that may allow us to more accurately know when to abstain? Or is it possible that’s actually the window we need to abstain for?

(Before anyone asks: Yes, we pray about it. And, yes we know what constitutes valid reasons for delaying pregnancy. I genuinely appreciate the intentions of anyone inclined to start with those two questions. We’re really just looking for concrete, physical suggestions and advice in this thread.)

The level of abstinence you describe sounds about right for symptothermal, if a high degree of certainty is desired. I can’t speak to the other methods.

 

[maryjk]

Well, I’ve tried different methods of NFP, and the window requiring abstinence you are describing is pretty average, in my experience. Your wife is certainly not fertile for that entire time, but abstaining that whole time earns NFP methods their 98% effectiveness rate. If only science could get to the point of identifying the ONLY days that are truly fertile, but since science isn’t quite there yet, additional days have to be considered “fertile” in order to make the systems work reliably. I wish I had a better answer.

That is an incredibly long fertility period. Long enough that I would recommend the OP’s wife see a doctor.

Based on what the OP is saying, his wife is starting her period just 6 days after ovulation. If they ever did want to get pregnant, there would be a problem. In addition, she is showing signs of fertility, for 17 days prior to ovulation. That is not normal.

 

[Ludwig_Isidore]

If they ever did want to get pregnant, there would be a problem.

For what it’s worth, we’ve never had trouble getting pregnant. We’ve conceived four times, never trying for more than one cycle.

In addition, she is showing signs of fertility, for 17 days prior to ovulation.

Perhaps phase 2 starts later than what the mucus readings are indicating… maybe that’s where our “false fertile” days are coming from?

 

[Xantippe]

If your motivation isn’t particularly high, maybe you could add an extra Phase 1 day and just accept that you’re taking a higher risk of pregnancy?

We stop at Day 4, but we’re highly motivated.

 

[mommamaree]

I am no expert at NFP, but I will just mention a couple of ideas.

With the Couple-to-Couple League, when we learned symptothermal method of NFP, we were taught that there are several different rules for identifying the start of Phase II fertility, and I think I recall there being a few different ones for identifying the start of Phase III infertility. Names like Doering and Last-Dry-Day rules and such. My memory is a bit fuzzy, because we were purposefully increasing our family a lot in the last five years, so the times of practicing NFP were shorter.
Do you have one of the CCL manuals that can help you use the various rules and try to shave off a few extra days from the front and late ends of Phase II?
Although, I will say, at least 3 weeks of abstinence was pretty typical for us, too. The length of cycles were longer after postpartum return of fertility, and slowly decreased over time, so that it seemed like Phase II was shorter and Phase III was longer. Have you noticed that trend?
And yeah, we always conceive the first cycle after abandoning the method, no problem, even though my Phase III has always been rather short. So a short Phase III does not always indicate problems getting pregnant. Every body is different.

 

[FrenzyJen]

I know that medical advice is not allowed, so keep in mind I am only sharing what I did:

I had ridiculous cycles when they returned after my miscarriage. The fertile window seemed too long, and after carefully studying almost every fertility awareness option available to me, I determined that my body was trying to ovulate several times each month before actually succeeding, which is what was resulting in my odd symptoms.

I learned about an herb called Vitex or Chasteberry, that is supposed to help regulate hormones. I started taking it, and by the next cycle, everything was much clearer on the charts. It made my cycle slightly shorter, but it actually helped my body in succeeding to ovulate the first time it tried. Confirming with the Clear Blue monitor, mucus, and BBT, my fertile window was much clearer and shorter. I think it took us down to only having to abstain for about a week and a half.

The other plus of this, was since it balanced my hormones, sex didn’t seem like as much of a chore Essentially, it “normalized” me. Might be something to look into, provided that you aren’t nursing or TTC.

 

[VeiledVeronica]

I would check with a Creighton doc and maybe have her hormone levels checked. Sometimes prolonged periods of what seems to be fertile mucus can be a sign of cervical eversion, which can happen after children. Basically, the cervix is not closed as tightly and the inside mucus crypts can “weep”. It is sometimes treated with progesterone.

Also, I suffer from PCOS, which can also produce these longer periods of fertile symptoms. I’ve never had trouble getting pregnant, so I was surprised when my Creighton doc diagnosed me. I would go several weeks with on and off fertile mucus and with charting and ovulation strips we figured out that my body kept attempting to ovulate. So what appeared to be several rounds of ovulation in a cycle were most likely several failed attempts at ovulation before the real thing. NFP is honestly pretty frustrating with PCOS because so many of the seemingly fertile days are not actually fertile, and several of my babies have been conceived when I thought that I had already ovulated and a week later ovulated for real. Even the ovulation test strips can give false positives for PCOS. Thankfully, we don’t have a grave reason to abstain, so if I get pregnant it’s ok, but if we really needed to avoid conception, we’d be abstaining a LOT more.

A hormone check and physical with a Creighton doc should help to figure this out.

 

[maryjk]

For what it’s worth, we’ve never had trouble getting pregnant. We’ve conceived four times, never trying for more than one cycle.

Perhaps phase 2 starts later than what the mucus readings are indicating… maybe that’s where our “false fertile” days are coming from?

A luteal phase of 6 days is a problem. See this link:

Typically, the luteal phase is around 10-16 days in length. A luteal phase that is fewer than 10 days may be too short for successful implantation to occur.

So if you wife doesn’t have a problem getting pregnant, chances are, she is misreading her signals.

Do you mind sharing how old your wife is? I know that as I aged, I am almost 50, my signs became less clear.

 

[ktranamber]

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They just launch a new wireless thermometer to make it even easier.
More info here with $10 off - kindara.com/r/aSeBOhiJS