Help my brother witnessed/participated in a death

[deb1]

Lilyofthevalley:

Using a morphine drip to lessen pain is not murder, it’s called pain management.

I can only say, that the way my brother described the situation to me, was that the morphine was intentionally increased to cause the patient’s death. This was done with the full knowledge of the patient. I love my brother very much, but this saddens me. Especially, because my brother-despite his guilt-does not admit that this was wrong.

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

Deb if it were used for pain management and the other affect was a hastened death there should’nt be a problem with it. Especially since this patient requested it. How much pain was this poor man in?

Especially, because my brother-despite his guilt-does not admit that this was wrong.

It’s not. Have you witnessed someone dying from cancer? I know some sadists believe suffering in such a way is beautiful but it’s not.

 

[fix]

Ani Ibi:

But the effects are different, according to whether drip or inhalor is used. What about the other routes mentioned? My mum always used to tell me that pain is a signal that something is wrong. In the case of terminal illness, I suspect it is because an incorrect pain protocol is being used. The worry raised is that morphine drip is being used to shorten stays in hospital.

My friend died at home while being cared for by a palliative home care team. There are options. I have no problem saying that doctors and nurses should be allowed to do what they are trained to do. But that doesn’t mean the rest of us should shut up. My hospital is Women’s College Hospital. In our culture, decisions are made mutually among the health care team and the patient. The patient is not treated like a thing. The patient is treated like a human being.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Democracy does not mean handing over power carte blanche to some one else. It means allowing people to do their jobs with a system of checks and balances in place. Freedom is not absolute in democracies. There are limits on every freedom.

I understand what you are saying and agree very much, but keep in mind the intention is very critical. Morphine may be ordered to be given as in injection and the dose may be increased or the frequency of injection may be increased and the result would be not much different. These cases must be reviewed case by case.

I do not doubt there are folks intentionally pushing up doses and such to end lives. We know that is wrong, but sometimes the dose is needed and it may hasten death as well. There are many variables is what I am trying to say.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

fix:

There are many variables is what I am trying to say.

I would rather take each variable one by one. For instance how is the PDE applied in the field by a soldier for another soldier who has been mortally wounded? How is the PDE applied in a country where palliative care is not readily available? But in the West, what are the checks and balances against medics giving overdoses of morphine?

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Lilyofthevalley:

Using a morphine drip to lessen pain is not murder, it’s called pain management. When my dad was dying, painfully, there were flakes in the medical field who did not want to give him too much pain medication so he would’nt be “out of it”. I had to MAKE these flakes give him more to manage his pain properly.

I don’t think fix and I were talking about flakes in the medical field. I don’t think we were talking about being ‘out of it’ either. I don’t think we were talking about not giving the patient enough morphine. We were talking about very specifically what we wrote down. The concern is about giving morphine specifically to hasten death directly or indirectly, particularly where other means are available to augment pain management.