Help: My wife is very hurt and isn't recovering

[pensmama87]

Maybe my understanding is not inline with the Catholic Church’s teachings. But as far as I learned it, being the head of a household is a responsibility to be lived, not a privilege to be earned.

It is a responsibility, but it’s not one that you are currently able to maintain. I used the analogy of a building. You are trying to do the work on the upper stories without solidifying the foundation. The foundation needs to be done first, otherwise there’s no point to the other work - it’s going to keep failing. A man who expects to serve his wife and children needs to have the emotional maturity to be able to do so. It’s not that you earn it and then rest on laurels or something, but that you have to grow and develop the capacity to do it - and show your wife that she can, in fact, trust you to be able to do it.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Except for the fact that his wife seems to neglect herself and her children for days at a time. Withdrawing to her bed in a deep depression, this is not healthy and needs to be addressed.

Yes, absolutely.

 

[MJJean]

Yes, your job is to help them get to heaven.

My point is that your current tactics are not helping. And why are they not working? Because you have lost any credibility by your (admitted) abuse and sin. You need to rebuild your own spiritual life before guiding others.

As for being responsible for you wife’s spiritual guidance, that’s a fairly dubious suggestion anyway. I think it would be best to get your parish priest involved in this.

Your responsibility right now is to fix yourself. Stop the sins that have brought your marriage to this point. Stop making your wife responsible for supervising you and being burdened with your sin. You say you want to be responsible for your wife’s spiritual guidance, and yet you rely on her to be your spiritual policeman. It’s incongruous.

I’m sorry if my posts some off as harsh, but there are some serious issues here to address. I think a counsellor and your parish priest need to be involved. Allow them to guide you all as a family.

I agree. If my husband had damaged my trust and my relationship with him and others by such a history of bad decision making and bad behavior I would be furious if he even hinted at being the spiritual head of household and tried to assert any kind of authority. His credit with me would be shot and take a long time to be rebuilt.

I disagree with the others in that you shouldn’t be talking to your wife about your issues and asking for her assistance. I am the kind of wife that would find full disclosure necessary to rebuild trust. If your wife is not like me in that way then by all means keep things to yourself while working with a professional. Part of recovery is being accountable to someone, but it doesn’t need to be your wife. It could also be someone like a therapist and/or a priest.

OP, this is what we are telling you:

“You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.” (Matthew 7:5)

You’re doing a very strange thing here with your wife (well, it may be less strange in addiction land): you’re focusing on helping someone else instead of yourself, while making it harder for that person to actually recover, by banging them over the head with the fallout from your addiction. Then you’re surprised that they can’t cope well.

I agree with Prodigal_Son that it’s likely that your wife has additional problems that didn’t begin with marriage, but what you are doing is NOT working to help her get better. Not to mention, there could be a touch of, “Who does this guy think he is?” I know I would find your attitude really demoralizing and offputting if I were your wife. I would feel blamed and angry instead of supported.

If you want to be the spiritual head of your household (which is a worthy goal!), you have to be more than the male half of the couple. You have to earn that title. So far, you don’t have that kind of credibility. Rebuild the foundation first, before you start adding stories.

Yes! I did want to touch on something here, though. The wife may have had some issues and childhood pain, but that does not excuse or in any way lessen the OP’s responsibility for what he has done. Sometimes people in these situations say things like “Well, yes, I did wrong. But the real problem is what happened to my spouse when s/he was a kid…” I’m not saying the OP would do that. I just wanted to point out that it’s a possibility he might want to guard against.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I disagree with the others in that you shouldn’t be talking to your wife about your issues and asking for her assistance.

Did anyone say that? I didn’t. I just said he shouldn’t be letting her find out about things behind his back, and he shouldn’t use her as an accountability partner.

 

[whm]

She’s said before that she wants to live separated. That she wants to not be intimate with me every again (stemming from her fear of trusting me). I know for a fact how great a motivator fear can be, but I also know that it doesn’t come from God, and therefore neither do its effects, unless it is fear of God.

Your wife’s response is consistent with somebody who has suffered sexual abuse in the past. This could even stem from before you. In her eyes your failures may have turned you from the safe person she trusts and into and abuser. She may not trust any man at this point. She seems depressed and needs some professional help as other have said.

I suggest for now you give her what she wants. In addition to not committing sexual sins, do not in anyway request sexual intimacy with her. At this point it will only repulse her. After a time while she observes you being a good husband and father and not requesting sex, her view of you may improve. For you part it may be best not to hold on to sexual hopes, it ends up becoming a big source of temptation and make recovery much harder when the false hopes are not fulfilled. It is hard to let go of, but it does make things better and may make it possible for her to receive the help she may need.

She said that she went on a “very Catholic” website and told her story anonymously, but that instantly she got responses saying that she should divorce me! A “very Catholic” website suggesting divorce! She recognizes that that’s wrong also and won’t do divorce, but she takes that as a sign that our marriage is in much worse health than it actually is. Even though, in all honestly, my biggest failures were years ago!

I am not surprised she received such advice. These sites tend to be biased to whoever is posting. I cringe when I see such advice as I have come to learn that there is almost always more to the story. Porn addicts also tend to be dealt with harsher than others.

I wish she could see it from God’s point of view. I wish she could trust God like Jesus and Mary did. I wish she could let go of her fear and let go of her pain, and we could move on and grow and both become fully healthy.

Again she might be suffering from an abused caused mental issue. She needs some help, but at this point you are in a difficult position to demand that she gets it. Cleaning up your end will help her some. After some time she may be more receptive to suggestions of joint counseling.

I want to pray a novena with a full Rosary (all 20 decades) every day for our marriage and for each of us individually. But I’m afraid I’ll lose steam halfway through and give into despair that our marriage is doomed. Especially because, every time I’ve started to try to take highly serious measures to fix this, the Devil attacks one of us very strongly in order to cause the other one pain. We’re both being used by the devil to hurt the other one, unknowingly, unwittingly.

You are better off starting a novena and not finishing then never starting at all! Sin and what is harmful for us and addiction and temptation from the devil are similar. Whether the addiction has rewired your brain or the devil himself is tormenting you (or if those are two ways to describe the same thing) your response should be the same. It needs to stop and be avoided. Realize that giving in makes it worse and resisting makes things better. I know that when the temptation is on you everything seems different, upside down even. Hold on to the knowledge that giving in makes things worse. It is not what you want it will never stratify what you are looking for. A SA group may really do you some good. Ideally you could find a catholic group of some sort.

Prayers for the both of you.

 

[MJJean]

Did anyone say that? I didn’t. I just said he shouldn’t be letting her find out about things behind his back, and he shouldn’t use her as an accountability partner.

I interpreted your post to be more along the lines of “If you fall, cover it up, keep it secret from your wife, and see a therapist and/or priest about the issue. Tell her only if she asks, but don’t give her a reason to ask.”

For me, that would be lying by omission. Not to mention, due to a wife’s duties around the house, chances are she’d find evidence anyway. Using the clothes as an example, if OP doesn’t usually do laundry and he all of a sudden tossed a load in the wash a wife might wonder what’s going on if they’re already having trust issues.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Y
I suggest for now you give her what she wants. In addition to not committing sexual sins, do not in anyway request sexual intimacy with her. At this point it will only repulse her. After a time while she observes you being a good husband and father and not requesting sex, her view of you may improve. For you part it may be best not to hold on to sexual hopes, it ends up becoming a big source of temptation and make recovery much harder when the false hopes are not fulfilled. It is hard to let go of, but it does make things better and may make it possible for her to receive the help she may need.

I disagree. The OP needs to talk to his wife and see how she feels about intimacy. If this were me and my husband I would be even more distraught if out of nowhere he stopped initiating sex. I would worry that without porn he has no desire at all, or that he was withholding sex from me to punish me for my hurt and anger. The latter conclusion is especially likely given the OP’s history of abusive behavior towards his wife. Besides, if his wife does in fact want to have sex, it can help a couple bond and reconnect while they work out their problems.

 

[whm]

I disagree. The OP needs to talk to his wife and see how she feels about intimacy. If this were me and my husband I would be even more distraught if out of nowhere he stopped initiating sex. I would worry that without porn he has no desire at all, or that he was withholding sex from me to punish me for my hurt and anger. The latter conclusion is especially likely given the OP’s history of abusive behavior towards his wife. Besides, if his wife does in fact want to have sex, it can help a couple bond and reconnect while they work out their problems.

That may be in your case, but you are not her. If she initiates relations, that’s great he should accommodate her. My suggestion is that he backs off from requesting it. He should still treat her as his lovely wife in all other respects.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I interpreted your post to be more along the lines of “If you fall, cover it up, keep it secret from your wife, and see a therapist and/or priest about the issue. Tell her only if she asks, but don’t give her a reason to ask.”

For me, that would be lying by omission. Not to mention, due to a wife’s duties around the house, chances are she’d find evidence anyway. Using the clothes as an example, if OP doesn’t usually do laundry and he all of a sudden tossed a load in the wash a wife might wonder what’s going on if they’re already having trust issues.

I specifically said he should be transparent with her – but not by letting her find evidence of his sin! By talking with her directly about it.

Of course, you shouldn’t give your wife a reason to ask if you are struggling. You should volunteer that information, not all the time, but sometimes. I talk to my wife about when I fall, most of the time. (This has helped us build trust). But I certainly don’t leave evidence of it.

As for the clothes, a man shouldn’t do anything to stain his clothes in the first place. Find another way, dude. Or – better yet – refrain because “your wife would find out if you do” – and that would mean you weren’t protecting her.

If I had a besetting sin of grave-robbing, I would not leave shovels around the house. But I would talk to my wife about it. There is a HUGE difference.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

That may be in your case, but you are not her. If she initiates relations, that’s great he should accommodate her. My suggestion is that he backs off from requesting it. He should still treat her as his lovely wife in all other respects.

Excuse me, but you aren’t her either so I’m not sure why you’re claiming the sole responsibility of speaking for her and determining what she wants.

That’s why I said that he needs to talk with her and find out what she feels best about. Unilaterally deciding that there will be no sex unless your formerly abused and still hurting wife initiates could end up being yet another act of cruelty towards her. She may need to feel loved, wanted, and held. Denying her that because he thinks he’ll look better if he does would be selfish. Frankly, the OP has done enough of that.

There is nothing to be lost by lovingly asking what her thoughts and feelings on the matter are.

 

[TraderTif]

If I had a besetting sin of grave-robbing, I would not leave shovels around the house. But I would talk to my wife about it. There is a HUGE difference.

Absolutely!! It hurts a lot less to have a spouse come and talk with you about struggles/failures, then to discover evidence of this on your own.

(It still hurts…but definitely less.)

 

[TheLastUnicorn]

Excuse me, but you aren’t her either so I’m not sure why you’re claiming the sole responsibility of speaking for her and determining what she wants.

That’s why I said that he needs to talk with her and find out what she feels best about. Unilaterally deciding that there will be no sex unless your formerly abused and still hurting wife initiates could end up being yet another act of cruelty towards her. She may need to feel loved, wanted, and held. Denying her that because he thinks he’ll look better if he does would be selfish. Frankly, the OP has done enough of that.

There is nothing to be lost by lovingly asking what her thoughts and feelings on the matter are.

I agree with you. She needs to be consulted. Whatever her feelings are on the matter, they need to discuss it as a couple. If I were married and my husband suddenly stopped initiating sex, I’d be very worried (and hurt.) His wife might or might not feel the same way but he should ask her what she wants so she knows what’s going on and so she doesn’t feel worried and powerless.

 

[whm]

Excuse me, but you aren’t her either so I’m not sure why you’re claiming the sole responsibility of speaking for her and determining what she wants.

That’s why I said that he needs to talk with her and find out what she feels best about. Unilaterally deciding that there will be no sex unless your formerly abused and still hurting wife initiates could end up being yet another act of cruelty towards her. She may need to feel loved, wanted, and held. Denying her that because he thinks he’ll look better if he does would be selfish. Frankly, the OP has done enough of that.

There is nothing to be lost by lovingly asking what her thoughts and feelings on the matter are.

Except when discussing sex puts her in a depression spiral for days.

btw not requesting sex is not unilaterally deciding that there will be no sex. By quoting my response, I assume you had read it. Re-read my response to you and you will see where I said if she requests it that’s great.

 

[whm]

I agree with you. She needs to be consulted. Whatever her feelings are on the matter, they need to discuss it as a couple. If I were married and my husband suddenly stopped initiating sex, I’d be very worried (and hurt.) His wife might or might not feel the same way but he should ask her what she wants so she knows what’s going on and so she doesn’t feel worried and powerless.

She told him she never what to be intimate with him ever again. Hopefully that doesn’t end up being the case, but lots of stuff needs to be fixed before trying to initiate sex with her in her state of mind. Even telling her he was tempted to sin sent her into a bad depression. She needs some help and he needs to build some trust from her first.

I agree he should find a way to communicate to her that he is respecting her wishes and not requesting sex at this time. No guarantee that even doing that might upset her.

 

[Book_Worm]

I think your wife has every reason in the world not to look to you for spiritual guidance.

You ABUSED her, seriously enough to land in jail, over, I would imagine, a long period of time. Now you think she should get past her hurt and distrust because it happened “years ago.”

You are still not able to resist temptation and repeatedly fall back into the sexual sins you KNOW cause her so much emotional pain. Your love for her is not strong enough to overcome temptation. And she KNOWS this because you ask her to commit immoral acts as well as leaving evidence of your private sins for her to find. Don’t you have tissues in your house?

And if she cannot trust you not to fall back into sexual sins, why should she not think that you might not also fall back into abuse?

You want to discuss your problems with outsiders who have no expertise in these areas and may very well cut her and your family out of their lives. It seems that she doesn’t put much trust into your judgment.

You come to a message board to ask for advice, and when you get advice that points out ways in which you may be partially at fault, you tell them to keep it to themselves.

You say this post is about the second step, fixing your wife’s problem. You cannot take the second step until you’ve taken the first successfully. You say priests have recommended a website for years, and you just bothered to look into it recently.

Yes, you have a responsibility to be the spiritual head of your family. However, before doing that you must demonstrate that you are qualified to lead them. I don’t think your wife has reason to believe that you are.

 

[whm]

I apologize if my previous posts come across a little testy. I am however very concerned that his wife needs professional help to resolve her depression issues before he makes any advances on her. Past attempts at conversation have gone very poorly. Ideally they would meet jointly with a priest or counselor, however it doesn’t sound like she is agreeable to that at all at this point. Maybe after he provides her some space in this area (that she requested) and is super nice otherwise, with no perceived expectation of a sexual “payoff”, things will be calm enough that some communication progress can be made.

He has his struggles he needs help with too. Right now their respective struggles are making each others struggles worse. He tries to talks to her about his struggles, she goes into depression. He feels isolated, helpless, and hopeless, his temptation are more difficult to overcome.

 

[TheLastUnicorn]

She told him she never what to be intimate with him ever again. Hopefully that doesn’t end up being the case, but lots of stuff needs to be fixed before trying to initiate sex with her in her state of mind. Even telling her he was tempted to sin sent her into a bad depression. She needs some help and he needs to build some trust from her first.

I agree he should find a way to communicate to her that he is respecting her wishes and not requesting sex at this time. No guarantee that even doing that might upset her.

Ah, I didn’t remember that she said that, but they still need to discuss any changes they make in their sex life like two adults. If he just suddenly stopped trying to initiate sex, she’d have every reason to be suspicious that something was wrong. If the abuse she has suffered at his hands has made it impossible or nearly impossible for her to discuss this sort of thing with him (which would be understandable) then that is all the more reason to seek professional help for their marriage, but he should at the very least inform her that he is willing to abstain from sex for as long as she wants (provided that’s true.)

Whatever the fall out, he needs to treat her like an equal partner and that means making decisions with her and not for her on the basis of something she may have said in disgust, depression or anger. Maybe she does still feel that way but if they decide to abstain for a time, they need to discuss it first and agree to it, even if it’s tough for one or both of them to do so. Good to know you more or less agree with that. Just reiterating.

 

[MJJean]

Ah, I didn’t remember that she said that, but they still need to discuss any changes they make in their sex life like two adults. If he just suddenly stopped trying to initiate sex, she’d have every reason to be suspicious that something was wrong. If the abuse she has suffered at his hands has made it impossible or nearly impossible for her to discuss this sort of thing with him (which would be understandable) then that is all the more reason to seek professional help for their marriage, but he should at the very least inform her that he is willing to abstain from sex for as long as she wants*** (provided that’s true.) ***

Whatever the fall out, he needs to treat her like an equal partner and that means making decisions with her and not for her on the basis of something she may have said in disgust, depression or anger. Maybe she does still feel that way but if they decide to abstain for a time, they need to discuss it first and agree to it, even if it’s tough for one or both of them to do so. Good to know you more or less agree with that. Just reiterating.

I agree. I’ve been hurt and angry and I’ve told my husband in the heat of those emotions that I never wanted to have sex with him or even sleep in the same bed again. I didn’t mean it. I was upset. It’s possible the OP’s wife was just speaking in hurt and anger.

 

[whm]

Ah, I didn’t remember that she said that, but they still need to discuss any changes they make in their sex life like two adults. If he just suddenly stopped trying to initiate sex, she’d have every reason to be suspicious that something was wrong. If the abuse she has suffered at his hands has made it impossible or nearly impossible for her to discuss this sort of thing with him (which would be understandable) then that is all the more reason to seek professional help for their marriage, but he should at the very least inform her that he is willing to abstain from sex for as long as she wants (provided that’s true.)

Here are excerpts from his original two posts that cumulatively give me great concern for her mental well being.

"But all these pains are adding up cumulatively. Every few months I slip up (it’s a smaller and smaller slip up each time). But each time, she suffers more than the last time. It adds up to the point where yesterday I simply mentioned that I was tempted to do one of those things (I didn’t’ actually do it though). And she was shaking and crying and completely unable to do any of her motherly duties all day, instead watching television on the couch all day and practically neglecting the children (she homeschools them, and this is very unusual behavior for her, usually reserved for one of these instances).

she repeatedly tells me that during the rest of our good times (which are much more often than these bad times) that she’s actually faking being happy and that she’s hurt inside and constantly remembering all the pain even when smiling. She says she’s trusted me over and over, too many times, and she just can’t let herself do it again because she can’t risk more pain and suffering.

the last time this happened was a month ago, when I told her how I had bypassed our porn filter and gave her instructions on how to prevent me from doing it again. That set her into a downward spiral that left her unable to do anything for our children or barely even for herself for a whole week, not talking to anyone. I gave her space because she asked for it, but she didn’t get any better.

The point I’m making is that her pain builds up cumulatively, so that any time I do the smallest thing that would normally cause the smallest amount of pain to her, she suddenly feels the pain from every single thing I’ve ever done to hurt her, and it overwhelms her to the point where she said she feels “numb inside” and “I didn’t even think it was possible to be in this much pain” and such.

The first thing on my mind should be to address my own sins and their causes and figure out how to avoid it in the future and pray for repentance. So, it’s backwards. I’m not given any room to grow and learn from my mistakes, because I’m constantly dealing with trying to stop her nuclear bomb from exploding every time and getting bigger than last time.
she said that she feels like God just doesn’t care about her, considering that God just lets her get hurt.

She’s said before that she wants to live separated. That she wants to not be intimate with me every again"

This is why I recommend that he respect her wishes and not approach her sexually. Ultimately to repair the situation enough that they can both get the help they really really need.

 

[whm]

You are still not able to resist temptation and repeatedly fall back into the sexual sins you KNOW cause her so much emotional pain. Your love for her is not strong enough to overcome temptation. And she KNOWS this because you ask her to commit immoral acts as well as leaving evidence of your private sins for her to find. Don’t you have tissues in your house?

I expect that is very much how his wife feels and I don’t blame her. But it is a false dichotomy to believe that if a sex addict commits a sin that it is because they do not love their spouse enough.

You come to a message board to ask for advice, and when you get advice that points out ways in which you may be partially at fault, you tell them to keep it to themselves.

That is not entirely fair. He pretty much admitted to all of his failings and acknowledged he needs to fix himself first. He came for help because the situation his wife is in(which may be entirely his fault), in his mind is making it harder for him to get better. Some posters perhaps did not read his entire post and reacted very strongly to one or two of his statements and he got upset about it. He is an addict looking for help in a desperate situation. I am not sure that yelling at him yelps him. Some people had well measured responses to the same concerns in his post that might ultimately be more effective in reaching him. He was reacting to the less charitable posts.

I understand that addicts often need a dose of reality, however we also don’t want to shame them away when they are reaching out for help.