Help need some answers quick

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THurifer2

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  1. In the EF who does the readings and can lay people do them.
  2. Can the 1965 rubics be added to the 62?
  3. Can communin be distributed under both kinds and by lay people?
I am just reading my diocesan policy on the EF and it seems to have many many holes in it.
 
THurifer2 said:
  1. In the EF who does the readings and can lay people do them.
  2. Can the 1965 rubics be added to the 62?
  3. Can communin be distributed under both kinds and by lay people?
I am just reading my diocesan policy on the EF and it seems to have many many holes in it.
Click to expand...
  1. Only the priest and/or deacon does the readings. In the EF, there are only 2 readings (if I’m thinking correctly), but there’s a reading from John 1:1 at the end of Mass or there used to be.
  2. Don’t know about #2.
  3. Only the priest distributes communion and I think only one kind. No Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion during an EF.
 
THurifer2 said:
  1. In the EF who does the readings and can lay people do them.
  2. Can the 1965 rubics be added to the 62?
  3. Can communin be distributed under both kinds and by lay people?
I am just reading my diocesan policy on the EF and it seems to have many many holes in it.
Click to expand...
The Priest or Deacon does the readings. Lay people do not do them
The 65 rubrics cannot be added to those of the 62
Communion can be under under both species if by intinction and distributed by the Priest and possibly the Deacon.
 
palmas85 said:
The Priest or Deacon does the readings. Lay people do not do them
The 65 rubrics cannot be added to those of the 62
Communion can be under under both species if by intinction and distributed by the Priest and possibly the Deacon.
Click to expand...
The actual rubric is Priest, Deacon, Subdeacon or “ordained lector” (which is different from a layman installed as a lector; Vat. II did away with lesser orders of clerics in the Latin Rite) for the Epistle, and priest or deacon only for the Gospel.

The old canon law did provide for EMHC’s under the Trent usage… only priests and bishops were ordinary ministers of Holy Communion, and the Deacon could distribute as an EMHC. Laymen could not. The actual missal instructions didn’t need to address it, as it was in canon law.

It also allowed intinction, and the rubrics recommended it on Corpus Christi.

The only allowed EF missal is the 1962 as it was in 1962. I suspect a new missal may be forthcoming with the new saints.
 
Aramis said:
The actual rubric is Priest, Deacon, Subdeacon or “ordained lector” (which is different from a layman installed as a lector; Vat. II did away with lesser orders of clerics in the Latin Rite) for the Epistle, and priest or deacon only for the Gospel.
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I don’t know about this. My roomate grew up in a parish that used only the EF. If I remember right there is a form of using the nonordained as subdeacons. I’ll ask him.
BTW in Ralaigh NC there is going to be an EF mass with the bishop soon. I’ll post when it is when I post the other stuff.
 
palmas85 said:
The Priest or Deacon does the readings. Lay people do not do them
The 65 rubrics cannot be added to those of the 62
Communion can be under under both species if by intinction and distributed by the Priest and possibly the Deacon.
Click to expand...
The actual rubric is Priest, Deacon, Subdeacon (1) or “ordained lector” (2) for the Epistle, and priest or deacon only for the Gospel.

This is mentioned in the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia:
The lector is still mentioned twice in the Roman Missal. In the rubrics at the beginning it is said that if Mass be sung without deacon and subdeacon a lector wearing a surplice may sing the Epistle in the usual place; but at the end he does not kiss the celebrant’s hand (Ritus celebr. Missam", vi, 8). On Good Friday the morning service begins with a prophecy read by a lector at the place where the Epistle is usually read (first rubric on Good Friday). (Entry: Lector)

The old canon law did provide for EMHC’s under the Trent usage… only priests and bishops were ordinary ministers of Holy Communion, and the Deacon could distribute as an EMHC. Laymen could not. The actual missal instructions didn’t need to address it, as it was in canon law. ((3) Canon 845 of the 1917 CIC)

The only allowed EF missal is the 1962 as it was in 1962. I suspect a new missal may be forthcoming with the new saints.

(1) Subdeacons have been eliminated from the ordination pattern of the Roman Church by Vatican II. Since a priest or deacon often served as a subdeacon anyway, and was allowed to under the rubrics, that has become the requisite. Again, there are a few still kicking around, but they are even more rare than ordained lectors, since they had to take the vow of celibacy.

(2) an ordained lector is different from a layman installed as a lector; Vat. II did away with lesser orders of clerics in the Roman Church Sui Iuris, so if the lector is less than 60, I’d be worried. Certain eastern rite catholic churches still have minor clerics of the order of Reader, and they would meet the rubric, but would require permission from both bishops (theirs and the celebrant’s) to function across rite. The Minor Orders of cleric included Cantor, Lector, Porter, Acolyte, and in some of the western rites, Thurifer and Exorcist. Since V II, eastern Subdeacons are considered minor clerics.

(3) Note that I used Google’s Book Search for Edward Peter’s English Translation. Page 302 of The 1917 Pio-Benedictine Code of Canon Law.
 
Aramis said:
The actual rubric is Priest, Deacon, Subdeacon or “ordained lector” (which is different from a layman installed as a lector; Vat. II did away with lesser orders of clerics in the Latin Rite) for the Epistle, and priest or deacon only for the Gospel.
Click to expand...
A layman properly instituted as a lecor may serve in this capacity. I don’t see why not if Ecclesia Dei tolerated “straw subdeacons” with instituted acolytes.

However, I doubt many dioceses in the world actual institute laymen into these ministries. Most places have “readers” in their stead, who can be both men and women.
 
AJV said:
A layman properly instituted as a lecor may serve in this capacity. I don’t see why not if Ecclesia Dei tolerated “straw subdeacons” with instituted acolytes.

However, I doubt many dioceses in the world actual institute laymen into these ministries. Most places have “readers” in their stead, who can be both men and women.
Click to expand...
what is this refference to? isn’t Ecclesia Dei the moto proprio that excomunicated lefebvre? shake your head yes I just pulled it up on the vatican site.
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/motu_proprio/documents/hf_jp-ii_motu-proprio_02071988_ecclesia-dei_en.html
 
Aramis said:
(1) Subdeacons have been eliminated from the ordination pattern of the Roman Church by Vatican II. Since a priest or deacon often served as a subdeacon anyway, and was allowed to under the rubrics, that has become the requisite. Again, there are a few still kicking around, but they are even more rare than ordained lectors, since they had to take the vow of celibacy.
Click to expand...
But minor orders and ordination to the subdiaconate continue to be conferred in the seminaries of, for example, the FSSP.
 
Rose_Maniple said:
But minor orders and ordination to the subdiaconate continue to be conferred in the seminaries of, for example, the FSSP.
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In the Roman Church, these men are no longer considered “ordained” but merely “installed” to the minor orders. And the clerical state per CIC of 1983 is Deacons and up, not first tonsure and up as it used to be. (1983 CIC Canon 266; 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia: Cleric). Thus, under current canon law, subdeacons are laymen instituted into minor orders…

The CCEO allows minor orders within the eastern churches as ordinations, with the clerical state at deacon universally (canon 325), and minor orders if traditional to the church in question and in their particular law. (Canon 327).
 
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