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pnewton
Guest
We must never consider prayer a last resort. It is our primary line of defense. A minute of prayers is worth all the advice one can get.
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pnewton
Guest
This is a good idea, one I will avail myself of.
Again, I will not abandon him. When I find out the specifics, I will see if any resources are available to get him help. Unfortunately, living back at home is not an option, at least the way things stand. For those did not catch it, I have another little son that needs and deserves protection from certain bad habits. My oldest son has no desire to be back at home and live with the restrictions a little brother would mandate. Heck, I don’t always have the desire to live there, especially after just four hours sleep.
FYI - One of the paths we tried was cognitive therapy with a family therapist. Contracts, boundries, medication, all been used.
On the bright side, he seemed in his last letter that he is wanting to take responsibility for his life, either that or he is getting better at playing games. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and trust God through the intercession of you people and others will give guidance to me and to him. At least he still listens to me and respects my opinion.
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Angels_Unaware
Guest
You told us three things that are either false or that may be contradictory. First, you told us that your son has been tested and has “nothing physiologically wrong with him.” There is no such physical test in existence that will determine whether a person has clinical depression or is making excuses for himself. I know that. No way, no how.
Second, you told us your son was medically discharged from the Army for depression. You then told us a doctor said his depression was “mild, and did not need to be treated”, presumably meaning it was not clinical depression. Granted, it may be two doctors are in disagreement over your son’s diagnosis, and the Army is prone to rendering questionable and false medical discharges. However, my experience would lead me to suspect that if an individual is experiencing severe disruption in their daily life, evidenced by the inability to hold a job or finish school, they are not going to waltz out of a competent doctor’s office without a diagnosis. Perhaps the other poster who suggested ADHD is more on target rather than depression, but there is obviously something real going on in your son’s life.
Third, yes, I am being harsh and judgmental. I am going to be very clear and up front about why I am being harsh.
- Kids who are making excuses for themselves don’t usually join the Army or apply for jobs that they can’t hold. The Army is not a picnic, and your son is, I presume, not intellectually disabled, so he must have had some understanding of what the Army was when he joined. Even if he was pressured by his family to join the Army, the fact that he did it, and is not wandering the streets like the other poster’s son who was on drugs is evidence that he probably wanted to succeed. He can’t succeed. He has a problem.
- There is a very common family dynamic in some families where people are perhaps less than forthright about their own problems and issues where one family member is scapegoated. That family member is louder or more obviously in distress than the rest of the family, so they become the “target” of everyone’s attention, and are subconsciously rewarded for failing. As their failures mount, it relieves emotional pressure from the family, who can go out and talk about their “problem family member” and get lots of pats on the back for it “not being their fault”.
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pnewton
Guest
I thought here I would get a Christian response as opposed to judgmental response. I did not realize that the family forum allowed such things. Perhaps it would be better for you to check out the Church’s teaching on Truth as it applies to slander and work on your own log.
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monicatholic
Guest
this is profoundly true. similarly, there is a very common discussion board dynamic where people are perhaps less than cluless about their own minutae perspective and as a result, scapegoat posters seeking advice.
walk a mile, AngelsUn.
pnewton, if your son’s last letter was hopeful, i am happy. time will tell. it’s so hard to wait…
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udoc89
Guest
pnewton, if your son’s last letter was hopeful, i am happy. time will tell. it’s so hard to wait…
pnewton,
I am, too…God Bless.
pnewton,
I am, too…God Bless.
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searcher_geoff
Guest
Hi pnewton
I had a daughter with similiar problems maybe a little worse. What ever you do will be taken as a negative. We were always there to pick up the pieces and it cost emotionally and financielly. It took nearly 12 years but now we have a daughter that is coping, may be not as well as we would like but she is getting better and growing everyday. Hang in there but as you say he cannot stay with you, you may have to help him find a place, with him paying the ongoing cost. May God bless and give you peace in your decisions geoff
I had a daughter with similiar problems maybe a little worse. What ever you do will be taken as a negative. We were always there to pick up the pieces and it cost emotionally and financielly. It took nearly 12 years but now we have a daughter that is coping, may be not as well as we would like but she is getting better and growing everyday. Hang in there but as you say he cannot stay with you, you may have to help him find a place, with him paying the ongoing cost. May God bless and give you peace in your decisions geoff
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TLM08
Guest
If you let him stay at your house for free, it would be enabling him to continue in his irresponsibility. As long as he has a place to mooch, he will take it.
As soon as he figures out that he either has to work, or live on welfare or on the street, he will take the bull by the horns.
Tell him that your advice is always free, but room and board will cost him $750.00 per month!
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Annn
Guest
The way the military is now, with a need for more soldiers all the time, it seems unlikely that they would discharge someone except for a serious problem. It seems this person must need real help.
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Cracker_Mom
Guest
We have a family member who just couldn’t hack bootcamp at 17 & pretended to be suicidal.Someone told him it was the only way to get out.It worked.They let him out.
Bad news is that later when he was more mature he wanted again to join the military & they said his previous records from bootcamp would make that impossible.
So, I guess you can fool the military but in the end you may be the one who loses out.
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Angels_Unaware
Guest
Sure… I’m clueless. I have a daughter around the same age. Nobody’s a perfect parent, but parents have to be their child’s biggest advocate. That means not enabling irresponsible behavior and not ignoring real problems that need real help. When you ask for advice, and you’re given advice, but immediately discount the advice and put the focus back on the “problem child”, then maybe you’re asking the wrong questions. It sounds like this a person who was diagnosed with clinical depression by a competent doctor, on the one hand. On the other hand, we’re told a medical test determined he did not have a depression and is making excuses. There is no medical test for depression, so…what’s really going on.
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journey137
Guest
It is quite possible to pretend to have depression in order to get out of a military commitment. My cousin signed up, went to boot camp, decided it was too hard, faked depression, got discharged, went home, and is still mooching off his mom and grandparents three years later. He does drugs and drinks and has been a horrible influence on his little brother. At least during the summer he mows for cash so his asking for money eases up a bit. Just because they’re military docs doesn’t mean they know everything, and I wouldn’t put it past an intelligent yet lazy young man to be able to fool them. Good luck in whatever you decide pnewton.
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pnewton
Guest
Therein is a major consideration. In a way it makes things easier, clearer. TLM08 spoke the truth, but a hard one.
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Angels_Unaware
Guest
Yes, but pnewton told us that another doctor had him “physiologically checked out” for Depression and he was “fine” and didn’t need to be treated. Because she said this, we know she is prone to not telling the whole truth. That didn’t happen. Furthermore, unless her son has been thoroughly evaluted by a psychiatrist, she doesn’t know if he has an untreated mental condition or not. However, she’s told us that it doesn’t matter to her whether her son has a untreated mental condition or not, because she knows the “cure is worse than the disease”.
Either A or B, or both A and B, are true.
A= Her son has an untreated mental condition and she won’t follow medical advice and have him treated.
B= She is enabling irresponsible behavior.
AND, then complaining about that behavior to people who are guaranteed to be extremely sympathetic to her, and who will absolutely refuse to criticize her for fear it will be “unchristian” and assure her over and over again that she is a wonderful mother and not to blame for her son’s situation.
Not healthy. If I’m the only person with the guts to say it, so be it.
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journey137
Guest
The way I see it, her son is 19. He’s an adult. From what she’s said, I gather that he does not respect her rules (if he did, why would there be discord when he is home). Since he is an adult, to live at home he must submit to the rules of the parent(s) especially if there are younger siblings watching his every movement. Whether it’s because of a medical reason or sheer stubbornness or laziness or whatever, he’s not doing that. If he chooses to get treated, it’s his business. She really can’t make him go to the dr and take meds, but if he’s willing to do that, I’m all for it. She could pay his medical expenses and give him food and shelter so he can get treated and try and get his life together. However, big however here, if he refuses any of those things (go to dr, take required meds if prescribed, get life together) I do not see how she can in good conscience expose a four year old to the kind of turmoil a 19 year old with problems can bring into the home… that’s not even mentioning if he’s home and not getting help she’s enabling him like TLM08 said. If he won’t live by their house rules, he shouldn’t be allowed to live there no matter what his excuse is. Help a person? Sure, but don’t enable them to ruin their life on your dime.
I would like to add that I’m pretty hard nosed about this kind of thing because of what I have seen in my extended family and I honestly do believe it is in a person’s best interest to be forced to take care of themselves if they don’t. Nobody’s going to benefit from another deadbeat moocher in this world.
I would like to add that I’m pretty hard nosed about this kind of thing because of what I have seen in my extended family and I honestly do believe it is in a person’s best interest to be forced to take care of themselves if they don’t. Nobody’s going to benefit from another deadbeat moocher in this world.
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happymommy
Guest
Hey, my sister is a deadbeat moocher!! She has all kinds of problems! Know how she got that way? My parents enabled her!!! But she’s sick…let me pay all of her bills…she can’t keep a job…let me clean her house for her…you know, she had her own place ( dad bought it for her) she kept it a mess…wouldn’t even do the dishes…every couple of days she would load up the dirty dishes, drive 15 mins. to my parents and run them through mom’s dishwasher!! When she was working, she called in the moring to let mom know that she was on her way…so mom could put her POP TART in the toaster for her!!! My mother made all dr.s and dentist appointments for her even her hair appointments and would drive her there (she had her own car, dad bought that too) gee was she in for a shock when mom died! She would grow up now right? nope, moved in with my dad, who’s 87 and treats him like…I can’t even write what she treats him like!!! He comes over crying, but won’t leave because she “needs” him…she is 46 years old!!! DON’T let you son become like this. Help, yes! Enable, NO!!!
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udoc89
Guest
You call this guts? I call this plain, old-fashioned bad manners. It takes absolutely no guts to answer an anonymous post in such a caustic manner. What are your professional qualifications? Why is your opinion any more valid than anyone else’s here? If you are a mental health professional, and I emphasize professional, I suggest you PM the original poster and quietly offer your advice instead of scalding her with your expertise in front of the rest of us. pnewman clearly stated in her first post that she was more interested in finding out what other parents in similar situations had done rather than asking for a bunch of well-intended (in most cases) but unprofessional opinions of her parenting skills. Besides, even if you were 100% correct in your assessment of the situation, she would hardly be likely to listen to you–you accused her of “not telling the truth.” In laymen’s terms, you called her a liar.
Your posts to pnewman are possibly the most breathtakingly rude posts I’ve yet to read in the family forum, and I have read some real stinkers. You owe pnewman an apology. That, of course, is my opinion.
pnewman, I will continue to pray for you, because I think that is what you need and want from us. I will see you in some other forum.
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Angels_Unaware
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The only thing I have been caustic about is that the OP posted less than complete and truthful information, and I will make no apology for stating that.
It is not my “opinion” that what pnewtan has posted is not entirely truthful. It is a fact that mental disorders, such as ADHD and Depression, cannot be physiologically diagnosed. That is factual information. If you don’t believe me, I encourage you to research the issue for yourself. I see absolutely no reason to apologize for stating that. I worked as a mental health professional 10 years ago. I worked with severely mentally ill adults. I no longer work in that field.
A doctor can screen a person for medical conditions that can mimic mental disorders, such as thyroid disorders, and metabolic problems. However, if those medical tests are negative, it does not mean that the person in question does not have a “real” illness, and is making excuses to continue in willfully irresponsible behavior. All it means is that they do not have a medical disorder that mimics a mental disorder. Mental disorders are diagnosed solely on the basis of behaviors and reported symptoms.
This 19 year old young man, who was allowed to drop out of school 2 years ago, mind you, was medically discharged by the Army for depression. The OP completely disregards that diagnosis as being real. And, we don’t know- the Army may have been lazy and sloppy and cannot be trusted to medically discharge people. I don’t know, I’ve never been in the Army.
Whether or not this young man has a mental condition, his behavior cannot be enabled. The OP stated that she has given him money to start out and live independently three times, and he keeps failing. In that case, there should be an ultimatum. Actually, there should have been an ultimatum two years ago when he dropped out of high school. Take responsibility for yourself and get help, or don’t get help, but either way- you have to support yourself on your own since your choices are destructive to yourself and to the family.
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whatevergirl
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the OP’s name is pnewton!!! 
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whatevergirl
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***pnewton, my prayers are with you…I was thinking about this since you posted it…my son is only 3 years younger than yours…and what would I do if he just decided to drop school…kept needing bail outs…money…I can’t say for certain that I wouldn’t help him, financially. I think as parents, we instinctively step in when our kids are hurting. I understand why you helped him so much…but perhaps, now, he needs to kind of ‘struggle his way out of this,’ or ‘suffer his way out of this,’ so to speak. Be there to catch him, but it’s not terrible for teens to make mistakes and learn from them. I am not sure if he is so depressed that that can be causing all of this seeing that I don’t know him, etc…but I just wanted you to know…that as a mother…I can see where it is very hard to know exactly what to do. I’m sorry you’re at thi juncture in life. 
I am praying that your son gets on track…and that he starts to find something in his life that motivates him and excites him…I also hope he prays to go back to school.
God bless.***
I am praying that your son gets on track…and that he starts to find something in his life that motivates him and excites him…I also hope he prays to go back to school.
God bless.***
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