Help needed in dealing with adult son

[Angels_Unaware]

You call this guts? I call this plain, old-fashioned bad manners. It takes absolutely no guts to answer an anonymous post in such a caustic manner. What are your professional qualifications? Why is your opinion any more valid than anyone else’s here? If you are a mental health professional, and I emphasize professional, I suggest you PM the original poster and quietly offer your advice instead of scalding her with your expertise in front of the rest of us. pnewman clearly stated in her first post that she was more interested in finding out what other parents in similar situations had done rather than asking for a bunch of well-intended (in most cases) but unprofessional opinions of her parenting skills. Besides, even if you were 100% correct in your assessment of the situation, she would hardly be likely to listen to you–you accused her of “not telling the truth.” In laymen’s terms, you called her a liar.

Your posts to pnewman are possibly the most breathtakingly rude posts I’ve yet to read in the family forum, and I have read some real stinkers. You owe pnewman an apology. That, of course, is my opinion.

pnewman, I will continue to pray for you, because I think that is what you need and want from us. I will see you in some other forum.

The only thing I have been caustic about is that the OP posted less than complete and truthful information, and I will make no apology for stating that.

It is not my “opinion” that what pnewtan has posted is not entirely truthful. It is a fact that mental disorders, such as ADHD and Depression, cannot be physiologically diagnosed. That is factual information. If you don’t believe me, I encourage you to research the issue for yourself. I see absolutely no reason to apologize for stating that. I worked as a mental health professional 10 years ago. I worked with severely mentally ill adults. I no longer work in that field.

A doctor can screen a person for medical conditions that can mimic mental disorders, such as thyroid disorders, and metabolic problems. However, if those medical tests are negative, it does not mean that the person in question does not have a “real” illness, and is making excuses to continue in willfully irresponsible behavior. All it means is that they do not have a medical disorder that mimics a mental disorder. Mental disorders are diagnosed solely on the basis of behaviors and reported symptoms.

This 19 year old young man, who was allowed to drop out of school 2 years ago, mind you, was medically discharged by the Army for depression. The OP completely disregards that diagnosis as being real. And, we don’t know- the Army may have been lazy and sloppy and cannot be trusted to medically discharge people. I don’t know, I’ve never been in the Army.

Whether or not this young man has a mental condition, his behavior cannot be enabled. The OP stated that she has given him money to start out and live independently three times, and he keeps failing. In that case, there should be an ultimatum. Actually, there should have been an ultimatum two years ago when he dropped out of high school. Take responsibility for yourself and get help, or don’t get help, but either way- you have to support yourself on your own since your choices are destructive to yourself and to the family.

And one more thing…

If a mother came on to this forum and said, “My son gets winded everytime he plays baseball. He’s not able to keep up with the other kids. I don’t know what to do, but at this point, I think I’m not going to pay for his baseball equipment any more because he’s making excuses”, what would any normal person say? They would ask, “Have you taken him to the doctor? Do you think he could have asthma?”

And what if the mother’s response was, “No, he doesn’t have asthma. I know”. And what if another person said, “Well, how do you know that?” And the mother said, “I know, because when the doctor was there he listened to his heart, and his heart was just fine.”

What would you say? Somebody should say, “that isn’t the right test for asthma.”

Because it’s a brain disorder, some people think that these conditions are somehow less medically real, and the opinions of the people who treat the conditions, “worse than the cure”. I differ in opinion, and that difference in opinion is shared by the mainstream medical community.

 

[pnewton]

I have not lied.

I feel silly saying this. Have I told everything? Of course not. That would be a work far outside the scope of this format. I have not deliberately withheld a thing. For example, when I said I had a degree in psychology I did not mention it was only one of two majors.

I never disregarded any diagosis. This does not mean that I deem it relevant. Yet false conclusions have been reached about this and many other matters. It is always better to assume the best about people than assume the worst and be proven wrong. AngelsUnaware is so full of assumptions he even missed getting my gender correct. I am not the mother but the father. But no doubt he thinks I am lying about that also.

 

[pnewton]

Because it’s a brain disorder, some people think that these conditions are somehow less medically real, and the opinions of the people who treat the conditions, “worse than the cure”. I differ in opinion, and that difference in opinion is shared by the mainstream medical community.

Anti-depressants are contra -indicated in adolescents and often have a reverse effect. The suicide rate rises sharply with their use, so they are only used in extreme cases and need very close monitoring.

I never said there was a physiological test, BTW (another assumption). There was nothing physiological wrong, however. The classic symptoms that the body displays, (sleep disorder, loss of appetitie, lack of energy), were absent. The only lab test was a blood count which was only to check for anemia.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

pnewton,

You also have my gender wrong, but that is unimportant.

If I were hearing this story in a professional setting, which I am not, there are two things that would strike me immediately. The first is that when you explained your son’s experience, I did not hear you describe what happened according to your son. What were the circumstances that led him to make the decision that he couldn’t function in school and had to drop out? What was the three weeks in the Army like for him? I didn’t hear you tell me what he experienced, I heard you say he was making excuses. You might be right, but what would concern me is the disconnect between your experience of your son’s failure and his experience. There is an element of empathy that I did not hear. That does not mean it is not there, but it would be a red flag for me.

Second, I would notice, and consider it a red flag, that you have been to three doctors and did not find a productive solution to the problems. Who is refusing medical advice, and why?

Third, I would question what was actually said by the doctor, (and what his mental health qualfications were), who told you that your son had mild depression that did not need to be treated. I would wonder if he meant the diagnosis was dsythmia, or if he meant the diagnosis was clinical depression of mild severity. I would wonder if he meant that in not being treated, he meant that he did not need medication, and needed therapy, or if he meant no intervention was needed. I would question a doctor who said no intervention was needed in the presence of any depression, mild or severe.

Fourth, I would tell you that the involvement of the family is a critical part of any treatment plan, and that family becomes sick when a family member is dysfunctional. I would tell you to seek counseling for yourself and your family to deal with the emotional burden your son’s problems are having. I would emphasize the critical importance of not rewarding any destructive behavirors on your son’s part and in supporting compliance with his treatment program.

Fifth, it is imprudent to determine that no depression exists because there are not physical symptoms that are apparent to you or are reported by your son. It also does not rule out the presence of other disorders, such as ADHD and personality disorder. A thorough psychiatric evaluation is warranted given his discharge from the Army.

Lastly, I would tell you that your report of your son’s behavior is not consistent with a person who is not motivated to succeed. Young adults who do not care about their lives don’t keep on applying for jobs, they don’t sign up for the military, and they don’t write letters to their fathers telling them how much they value their opinion.

I would also tell you that the inability to hold a job or complete goals, by itself, in the absence of any other symptom, is an undeniable DSM-IV indicator that there is something going on that requires professional help.

It would be my gut, intuitive guess, based on how you have presented your story, (which could be wrong), that you are afriad of what could be wrong with your son, and because of that fear, are not willing to entertain psychologically-based treatment. I would tell you that the sooner you let go of your fear and fully investigate this avenue, the better for your family.

 

[happymommy]

pnewton,

You also have my gender wrong, but that is unimportant.

If I were hearing this story in a professional setting, which I am not, there are two things that would strike me immediately. The first is that when you explained your son’s experience, I did not hear you describe what happened according to your son. What were the circumstances that led him to make the decision that he couldn’t function in school and had to drop out? What was the three weeks in the Army like for him? I didn’t hear you tell me what he experienced, I heard you say he was making excuses. You might be right, but what would concern me is the disconnect between your experience of your son’s failure and his experience. There is an element of empathy that I did not hear. That does not mean it is not there, but it would be a red flag for me.

Second, I would notice, and consider it a red flag, that you have been to three doctors and did not find a productive solution to the problems. Who is refusing medical advice, and why?

Third, I would question what was actually said by the doctor, (and what his mental health qualfications were), who told you that your son had mild depression that did not need to be treated. I would wonder if he meant the diagnosis was dsythmia, or if he meant the diagnosis was clinical depression of mild severity. I would wonder if he meant that in not being treated, he meant that he did not need medication, and needed therapy, or if he meant no intervention was needed. I would question a doctor who said no intervention was needed in the presence of any depression, mild or severe.

Fourth, I would tell you that the involvement of the family is a critical part of any treatment plan, and that family becomes sick when a family member is dysfunctional. I would tell you to seek counseling for yourself and your family to deal with the emotional burden your son’s problems are having. I would emphasize the critical importance of not rewarding any destructive behavirors on your son’s part and in supporting compliance with his treatment program.

Fifth, it is imprudent to determine that no depression exists because there are not physical symptoms that are apparent to you or are reported by your son. It also does not rule out the presence of other disorders, such as ADHD and personality disorder. A thorough psychiatric evaluation is warranted given his discharge from the Army.

Lastly, I would tell you that your report of your son’s behavior is not consistent with a person who is not motivated to succeed. Young adults who do not care about their lives don’t keep on applying for jobs, they don’t sign up for the military, and they don’t write letters to their fathers telling them how much they value their opinion.

I would also tell you that the inability to hold a job or complete goals, by itself, in the absence of any other symptom, is an undeniable DSM-IV indicator that there is something going on that requires professional help.

It would be my gut, intuitive guess, based on how you have presented your story, (which could be wrong), that you are afriad of what could be wrong with your son, and because of that fear, are not willing to entertain psychologically-based treatment. I would tell you that the sooner you let go of your fear and fully investigate this avenue, the better for your family.

Walk a mile my friend and then dose out all the info. you want! A child like this can ruin a family if given the chance. Do they need help? Yes, but you can not let them take over everyone’s lives and that is what will happen if they allow the boy to move home and start paying for everything. It will not get better, it will get worse! And I don’t care if you have a kid the same age as his. That does not make you an expert. Parents should always love their children and do what is best for them, BUT not at the expense of their other children. The pain that has been caused to the rest of us children by my sister can not be measured! The wounds are deep and the scars will not heal. I would hate to have pnewtons 4 year old son put into the situation. Love you son, help him. But if he is not willing to get the help needed to stand on his own two feet you are going to have to back off and change your relationship with him. It sounds mean, but I truly believe that a little “tough” love for my sister when she was a teenager would have made a world of difference for our family and my father would not be suffering now. I’m watching him live out his last years in pain that is his own doing.

 

[Imryl]

I thought here I would get a Christian response as opposed to judgmental response. I did not realize that the family forum allowed such things. Perhaps it would be better for you to check out the Church’s teaching on Truth as it applies to slander and work on your own log.

My honest opinion here is that I’m glad you’re not my parent.

I’m very sorry if you take that the wrong way, but to make the accusation that he’s “faking” … Well, I sincerely hope you don’t make your reservations/doubt known to him. It may in fact push him to prove to you that he’s not faking it… and you can imagine what that might involve.

You lecture Angel about being judgmental, and also mention slander… But I wonder if you’re not doing the same thing to your son on this thread.

 

[pnewton]

I’m very sorry if you take that the wrong way, but to make the accusation that he’s “faking” … Well, I sincerely hope you don’t make your reservations/doubt known to him.

Rather than comment on your first statement, let me say that do not think he is faking anything, nor have I said that. He is extraordinarily honest and does not do such things. I will not make any accusation known of that sort, or ever have. Feelings are one thing we can not judge. The flip side to that is that I also do not assume they always have relevance on our actions. Again, I never denied that he, or anyone, can not be handicapped by our emotions. In fact, it is part of our human weakness. What we must not do is allow it to disable us, if that is possible.