Help needed with true Catholic Teaching on "Family Planning"

[gardenswithkids]

…Nateangie, there is no help…it’s nfp or no sex. That’s the catholic’s teachings and there are no solutions if you are a faithfull Catholic, unfortunately.
I’m so sorry…

If one is faithful, one knows where our help comes from. “I raise my eyes toward the mountains. From where will my help come? My help comes from the Lord, the maker of heaven and earth.” Psalm 121

It is only possible to live these teachings through the grace of God.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Nateangie, there is no help…it’s nfp or no sex. That’s the catholic’s teachings and there are no solutions if you are a faithfull Catholic, unfortunately.
I’m so sorry…

**
There is a 3rd option. And of the 3, it is by far the hardest. Trust that God knows what He is doing, that each and every new life (present and in your future) is a gift from Him.

Since I am not yet ready to put all of my trust in our Lord, my husband and I use a lot of abstinence.**

 

[Em_in_FL]

Ummm… I’m trying to help… if you’d answer my questions!

Just so ya’ll know we’re PM’ing, so she isn’t ignoring my request.
I just didn’t want anyone picking on her for not responding…

 

[mmt4]

First off… I’m sorry you are struggling.

Me too.

How are you checking your mucous signs? Internally or externally?
Are you also checking your cervical position?

For me this was the clicker. I have to check mucous at the cervix.

Like I said, I’m not questioning your knowledge or anything… just sometimes an outside perspective can help.

I agree

I know you and EminFl are pming. I hope you get more answers that are helpful.

 

[beeper]

**

Anything that deliberately separates the act from BOTH purposes (unitive and procreative) is immoral.**

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

]

 

[Corki]

No, it seems the real problem is that NFP is not working for her. Catholocims does not have an answer except “keep doing what you are doing”…and in her case that means keep on having babies, or stop having sex alltogether…what a cross that will be on the marriage!

She can’t go on like this.

Nateangie, there is no help…it’s nfp or no sex. That’s the catholic’s teachings and there are no solutions if you are a faithfull Catholic, unfortunately.
I’m so sorry…

In order to shine some light:

The poster quoted above is not Catholic and does not correctly represent Catholic Church teaching.

One always has to be cautious aobut advice on Church teaching you receive from a discussion forum. It is really crazy to take advice on the Catholic Church from non-Catholics.

 

[beeper]

So is it okay in the RCC to knowingly have sex with no desire of wanting a child? Granted they would never think of having an abortion, but ultimately had no intention on making a child to begin it…in other words, is it wrong in the RCC to have sex to simply— enjoy the unity of sex between the husband and wife?? I thought this was not allowed based on Genesis 38:8-10, where the man’s seed was wasted. Not trying to pick on anybody, just want to be clear on the teachings of the RCC.

 

[beeper]

In order to shine some light:

The poster quoted above is not Catholic and does not correctly represent Catholic Church teaching.

One always has to be cautious aobut advice on Church teaching you receive from a discussion forum. It is really crazy to take advice on the Catholic Church from non-Catholics.

I was the one who started this thread to help out a couple that I deeply love. I have not made one hurtful comment or given any advice in this forum. I asked for help and have desired to better understand the teachings of the RCC on this subject.

 

[Corki]

I was the one who started this thread to help out a couple that I deeply love. I have not made one hurtful comment or given any advice in this forum. I asked for help and have desired to better understand the teachings of the RCC on this subject.

I appreciate your sincere desire to help and to understand. I have not seen anything unkind or misleading from you.

As I said before, it was the poster that I quoted “AeroChunky” who is a non-Catholic misreprenting Catholic Church teaching.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

So is it okay in the RCC to knowingly have sex with no desire of wanting a child?

**
Simple answer (like there is such a thing, lol) is YES. A husband and wife can enjoy sex without having the desire for a child to come from that individual act. It is important however that they accept and embrace that a child COULD come from the act and receive the child as a blessing and a gift from God.**

 

[agapewolf]

okay so if the catholic church says you can’t use birth control how many children are you suppose to have. are you just suppose to keep on having kids till your health fails and when is enough enough? the bible says a full quiver is a blessed quiver so whats a full quiver and isn’t your responsibility to take care of the children you have, i don’t think God wants you to keep on having children if they are going hungry and not gettting any attention. we are using the symto-thermal method and we know the book by heart and it hasnt worked 6 times i know i am doing everything right. i have even asked the teachers and priests what i am doing wrong and they say nothing, they don’t know why i keep on getting pregnant they say i shouldn’t be. please help mom of 5 with one only 6 months old and another on the way.

Sounds to me like you got pregnant during the infertile time. THAT IS A MIRACLE! A real life (literally) miracle that happened.
By the way, most priests do not know the ins and outs of very specific methods of NFP…so asking them what you are doing wrong isn’t going to give you a good answer.

 

[kage_ar]

Look into the Marquette method, using a fertility monitor - have you investigated that method?

 

[nateangie]

Just Want To Know Once And For All Is It A Mortal Sin To Get Your Tubes Tied And Where In The Bible Does It Say It Is. And When Was It Made A Mortal Sin Or Against Catholic Teaching In The History Of The Church???

 

[MOMMYOFROSEBUDS]

JUST TO LET EVERYONE KNOW I AM NO LONGER NATEANGIE I CHANGED MY USER NAME TO MOMMY OF ROSEBUDS SO IF YOU WANT TO PM ME LOOK FOR THAT NOW THANKS.

 

[kristacecilia]

YES. It is an objective mortal sin to get your tubes tied.

Since this procedure was unavailable during Jesus’ times (ie. It doesn’t say anywhere in the Bible, “Thou shall not get thy tubes tied”) we have to go based on what methods of contraception were used during Jesus’ and the Apostles time: withdrawl and “potions”.

Both are condemned in the Bible- specifically in the OT when Onan was killed for spilling his seed and in the NT when St. Paul specifically lists potions as sinful. (Unfortunately I am trying to feed my kids now and can’t go look up the exact verses).

Until the 1930s ALL Christian churches recognized the sinfulness of contraception. Now only the Catholic Church remains faithful to this age-old teaching.

I understand your frustration. I really do. I don’t have six kids yet, but in the five years I have been married I have had a kid every other year. I love them dearly and can’t imagine my life without them but sometimes I get stuck on the “Oh my… I am only 26. If I keep having a kid every other year until I go through menopause…” mentality. It is hard. The thought of it overwhelms me sometimes- but what about my sanity? what about money for food? College? What about my interests? I wanted to take up painting again…

The reality is there is nothing in this world - nothing - that I could want to do with my life, or even my “sanity” (I am not talking about legitimate psychological disorders here) is worth more than the chance that someone (an unborn, yet unconceived child) gets a chance to live. Nothing. Yes, it’s hard work. Yes, I have to be organized and on top of things and frustrated and pulled in fifty directions at once. Yes, I have to discipline my kids and help them to learn to love God. Do I always like it? No. Matter of fact, most days I don’t like doing most of that stuff. And I never like cleaning the bathroom. Ever.

But I am 100% sure that this is God’s will for my life. And I am 100% sure that the Church is right about contraception. So I obey about the contraception and struggle everyday with my family so that maybe someday we’ll all get to Heaven.

God never, ever, ever said life down here was going to be easy. Matter of fact, Jesus said the opposite several times. Does it have to be joyless? Of course not. Is it going to be hard work? You betcha.

The point of all my ramblings is- it is our duty to embrace whatever crosses Christ gives us with a joyful heart. Your family is big, and that’s a lot of work. You are blessed with an abudant fertility- specifically listed as a blessing several places in the Bible. It’s hard. It’s not always fun. It’s crazy and drives you nuts and makes you feel like you’re going to lose your mind.

But it’s YOUR gift.

You should talk to Martha- she’s expecting her ninth. And she homeschools all of them. Talk about a saintly woman!

 

[manualman]

No, it seems the real problem is that NFP is not working for her. Catholocims does not have an answer except “keep doing what you are doing”…and in her case that means keep on having babies, or stop having sex alltogether…what a cross that will be on the marriage!

She can’t go on like this.

Nateangie, there is no help…it’s nfp or no sex. That’s the catholic’s teachings and there are no solutions if you are a faithfull Catholic, unfortunately.
I’m so sorry…

Aero seems to be ignorant of how pregnancy occurs. You can’t get pregnant if you don’t have sex when the fertile egg is in position. It really is a matter of science, not religion to determine when that time is. Unfortunately, our medical community is generally NOT interested in helping people learn the necessary skills to determine the fertile times versus the infertile times. It is easier (and thus more profitable) to write a prescription for a pill.

In some cases, it IS very hard to read the signs of fertility properly because of other conditions, environmental factors or similar. I gave a link to a catholic association of medical doctors who offers help for such situations. Rather more helpful, I think, than just a dismissive, snide jab at catholicism.

 

[Em_in_FL]

Just Want To Know Once And For All Is It A Mortal Sin To Get Your Tubes Tied And Where In The Bible Does It Say It Is. And When Was It Made A Mortal Sin Or Against Catholic Teaching In The History Of The Church???

Yes, getting your tubes tied is “intrinsically evil” according to the catechism… see bolded portion…
The teachings in the catechism are not “new” or “invented” over history… they are simply an outline of the moral principals of the faith, backed by scripture and teachings of the church fathers.

HTH!

2370
Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.158 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:159

    Thus the innate LANGUAGE that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory LANGUAGE, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality. . . . The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.

 

[MOMMYOFROSEBUDS]

BUT DONT I HAVE TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CHILDREN I HAVE. IT WOULD BE TOTALLY IMMORAL TO KEEP ON HAVING CHILDREN AND NOT BE ABLE FEED AND PUT CLOTHES AND HAVE TIME TO GIVE THEM ATTENTION AND PLAY WITH THEM IF ALL I AM DOING IS HAVING BABIES. I HAVE TRIED EVERY POSSIBLE NFP PLAN, TEST EVERYTHING AND STILL I GET PREGNANT DURING INFERTILE TIMES. I THINK GOD WANTS US TO CARE AND LOVE THE CHILDREN HE HAS BLESSED US WITH NOT NEGLETE THEM. AND SO ALL THE CATHOLIC IN CHURCH ON SUNDAY THAT ONLY HAVE 1 OR 2 OR 3 KIDS AND YOU CAN TELL THAT THEY ARE “DONE” ARE ALL GOING TO HELL? BECAUSE YOU CAN TOTALLY PICK OUT THE COUPLES THAT ARE USING NFP THEY HAVE AT LEAST 5 OR MORE (BECAUSE IT DOESNT WORK) SO YOUR SAYING THEY ARE ALL MORTALLY SINNING AND GOD IS GOING TO SEND THEM ALL TO HELL. EVEN IF THEY ARE GOOD FAITHFULL LOVING CHARITABLE CATHOLICS?

 

[Em_in_FL]

BUT DONT I HAVE TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CHILDREN I HAVE. IT WOULD BE TOTALLY IMMORAL TO KEEP ON HAVING CHILDREN AND NOT BE ABLE FEED AND PUT CLOTHES AND HAVE TIME TO GIVE THEM ATTENTION AND PLAY WITH THEM IF ALL I AM DOING IS HAVING BABIES. I HAVE TRIED EVERY POSSIBLE NFP PLAN, TEST EVERYTHING AND STILL I GET PREGNANT DURING INFERTILE TIMES. I THINK GOD WANTS US TO CARE AND LOVE THE CHILDREN HE HAS BLESSED US WITH NOT NEGLETE THEM. AND SO ALL THE CATHOLIC IN CHURCH ON SUNDAY THAT ONLY HAVE 1 OR 2 OR 3 KIDS AND YOU CAN TELL THAT THEY ARE “DONE” ARE ALL GOING TO HELL? BECAUSE YOU CAN TOTALLY PICK OUT THE COUPLES THAT ARE USING NFP THEY HAVE AT LEAST 5 OR MORE (BECAUSE IT DOESNT WORK) SO YOUR SAYING THEY ARE ALL MORTALLY SINNING AND GOD IS GOING TO SEND THEM ALL TO HELL. EVEN IF THEY ARE GOOD FAITHFULL LOVING CHARITABLE CATHOLICS?

First off… turn down off the caps lock… it looks like you’re YELLING!

Secondly… you haven’t answered my 2nd round of questions in the PM… so don’t go back harping on “nfp doesn’t work” when you haven’t satisfied some pretty basic questions.
NFP CAN work (ask LOTS Of people here), it’s all about how much effort you want to put into it and how conservative you use it.

And there’s always the safest method… abstinence.
There are also several here that feel like they cannot risk having another child whatsoever… and abstinence always works.

And finally, I never said anyone was going to hell, please don’t ever accuse me of saying that. God is more forgiving than anyone gives Him credit for… but He also has given us this beautiful gift of our faith to help guide us through this life. Outright defiance of those guidelines tells God, “no thanks, I don’t need your help!”.

PRAY… and pray hard. Put your TOTAL trust in God and He will take care of you. He will not abandon you.

I urge you to continue to stay as educated in NFP as possible. I read about NFP constantly… and I know that’s why it works for me (100% for almost 8 years). I’ll never be an expert. I’m not a doctor, or a nurse… I’m an engineer… far from any medical experience. But I know that the more I learn the more I can rely on that knowledge. God has given us this BEAUTIFUL gift of fertility, with “birth control” built right into His own design. He KNOWS and UNDERSTANDS the challenges of this world broken by sin. Trust in Him.

You’ll be in my prayers… and feel free to PM me with any NFP questions… I’d love to help in any way I can.