Help needed with true Catholic Teaching on "Family Planning"

[Socio_Momma]

nfp.marquette.edu/index.php

earlier the Marquette Method of NFP through Marquette University’s Institute of NFP was offered as a possible option. the above link gives info on the method, they also have a forum now up & running to ask questions, get help on the method from drs & nps, and for support with using it.

it has been a great method for my dh & i. even when i was breastfeeding and going through some odd reproductive health problems (related to possible endo).

anyway, it might be a NFP option to look into.

 

[nateangie]

You can maintain your marriage without having sex.

Two spouses who are intimate with one another in conversation and united in faith have a far better chance of making it than a couple people who have disregarded God’s plan for marriage by getting sterilized so they can keep having sex without consequences and fulfill their own selfish desires.

This is your immortal soul we are talking about.

we are by no means selfish we have our 6th child on the way. we are looking out for the children that God has blessed us with. we are very generous people God says in the bible that a full house is generous house. so saying we just want to fulfill our own selfish desires is NOT true. would you or your husband be perfectly okay and willing to abstaine from sex for a year or two and your telling me that that wouldnt have any strain on your marraige.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

we are by no means selfish we have our 6th child on the way. we are looking out for the children that God has blessed us with. we are very generous people God says in the bible that a full house is generous house. so saying we just want to fulfill our own selfish desires is NOT true. would you or your husband be perfectly okay and willing to abstaine from sex for a year or two and your telling me that that wouldnt have any strain on your marraige.

**Like I mentioned before…hubby and I use NFP. Hubby and I have SERIOUS reasons to postpone children at this time. Hubby and I have had A LOT of abstinence. For two years since the birth of our daughter we can count on one hand the times we have been intimate in that way.

It has not destroyed our marriage. It has been difficult, yes. It has been downright frustrating at times, yes. We look forward to the time when we can either be able to use NFP more efficiently or we can graciously accept another little life into our family.**

**It has forced us to focus on God. If we did not put God at the top of our priority list I can say with certainty that we would be divorced by now. But when times get hard we have learned to put our trust and our faith in Him and to rely on His grace to carry us when we are unable to carry ourselves.

A couple not having sex for a time does not in and of itself mean doom to the marriage:shrug:

**

 

[kage_ar]

The marriages I know where health or travel has required long periods of abstainence, are some of the most caring and intimate marriages I’ve ever witnessed. I live in one

 

[kristacecilia]

we are by no means selfish we have our 6th child on the way. we are looking out for the children that God has blessed us with. we are very generous people God says in the bible that a full house is generous house. so saying we just want to fulfill our own selfish desires is NOT true. would you or your husband be perfectly okay and willing to abstaine from sex for a year or two and your telling me that that wouldnt have any strain on your marraige.

Would he agree to it? If it was a choice between that and sinning, yes, he would. We are equally committed to living our marriage according to the laws of the Church and will not use articifical means of contraception or sterilize ourselves. My husband is disgusted with the idea of sterilization.

If my mental health was unstable, I had serious medical issues that would mean another pregnancy could kill me, or we were a in serious (and I mean serious) financial situation, my husband and I would definitely abstain.

FYI, my husband also agrees with abstaining while my fertility is coming back during breastfeeding. It can be a year or more where fertility signs are ambigious at best. However, he realizes that it would not be good for me or for our child (that is excusively breastfed) for me to get pregnant again (since my milk dries up in pregnancy). We have successfully used NFP to space all our children so far. Of course, we also get pregnant on the first or second cycle we are not avoiding- everytime. So we are very fertile.

Is it hard, frustrating, and does it cause the occasional disagreement between us? Of course. Is it worth it? My husband would be the first to agree that it is.

Any man who is really devoted to his family, his wife, and his own Faith would commit. It is part of the call for a man to love his wife as Christ loved the Church- that he gave his own life for her. We all have to make sacrifices. Some are hard. That doesn’t mean they aren’t the right decisions.

I find that the easy way out is usually the wrong way out.

 

[Em_in_FL]

Let’s be honest MOMMYOFROSEBUDS/nateangie… you mentioned in your PM that you were not charting when you conceived the last 2 babies.

You can’t blame NFP for not working if you weren’t using NFP in the first place.

NFP requires ACTIVE and THOROUGH charting in order to work… you can’t guess or assume anything.
If avoiding conception is a priority, you need to make it a priority and actively chart your cycles.

I’m sorry you’re struggling… but don’t get all upset about a church teaching when you aren’t even using it properly.

 

[Corki]

would you or your husband be perfectly okay and willing to abstaine from sex for a year or two and your telling me that that wouldnt have any strain on your marraige.

Been there, done that. Not in order to avoid another child but for another reason. It’s hard but not even close to impossible. Our marriage is fine and was not strained at all. Our kids are fine. I would do it again if necessary and so would DH. It goes with the territory (“better or worse”).

 

[kristacecilia]

It goes with the territory (“better or worse”).

Ditto.

I guess I don’t get the whole mindset that sex is some integral and absolutely necessary part of a holy marriage?

My marriage is founded more on being united in the Faith, being completely committed to one another, having good communication, and being best freinds, none of which require us to have sex.

Everything else- money, sex, babies, good health- it’s all a bonus.

 

[nateangie]

Let’s be honest MOMMYOFROSEBUDS/nateangie… you mentioned in your PM that you were not charting when you conceived the last 2 babies.

You can’t blame NFP for not working if you weren’t using NFP in the first place.

NFP requires ACTIVE and THOROUGH charting in order to work… you can’t guess or assume anything.
If avoiding conception is a priority, you need to make it a priority and actively chart your cycles.
I’m sorry you’re struggling… but don’t get all upset about a church teaching when you aren’t even using it properly.

just because i wasnt keeping a chart doesnt mean i didnt know what i was doing or that i was doing it wrong. so please dont assume.

 

[Em_in_FL]

just because i wasnt keeping a chart doesnt mean i didnt know what i was doing or that i was doing it wrong. so please dont assume.

I’ve used NFP for over 8 years… successfully… and, from my own personal experience, active charting is critical.

You also mentioned that your cycles vary from month to month… which is even MORE of a reason to keep active thorough charts.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

just because i wasnt keeping a chart doesnt mean i didnt know what i was doing or that i was doing it wrong. so please dont assume.

**
Sorry, but you are making a lot of excuses in order to try and justify your desire to be sterilized. Any person here who uses NFP, and especially those who have serious reasons to delay conception will tell you that charting is an integral part of the process. So, if you feel you have too many babies the blame rests squarely on your shoulders. Your body, your fertility, your responsibility. You are not using NFP effectively. That is USER error, not the method. First step is honesty. You got yourself (along with your husband of course) into this situation, now you’re looking for an easy way out? Like I said before, not gonna fly here. NO ONE, no matter how you phrase and rephrase your sutuation (which many would consider very blessed instead of a burden) you will not get us to tell you that getting sterilized is OK.**

 

[kage_ar]

just because i wasnt keeping a chart doesnt mean i didnt know what i was doing or that i was doing it wrong. so please dont assume.

Did you say that you had instructors verify that you’d conceived during infertile times? How can the instructors say this if there were not chats to review?

 

[agapewolf]

There has been no assuming by anyone here on your situation.

In order to be considered using NFP to avoid pregnancy, one must keep an accurate chart daily. Otherwise, that is employing the practice to achieve pregnancy.

You have said that you have used every possible NFP plan, yet you have contradicted yourself several times by not charting, and by a mathematical impossibility. No one is assuming anything, you’ve stated the facts yourself.

Instead you are assuming of others who have small families that they use BC.

The title of this thread is asking about the true Church teaching. That is what you are being given…not only that, but many people are trying to help you and instead you are holding on to this idea of justifying ABC or sterilization. Everyone is countering this with facts and the church teaching, and compassionately so.

Please see things for what they are.

 

[Em_in_FL]

Your PM box is full… so I’ll post your question and my answer here.

nateangie:

i wasnt charting because i know it so well that i dont need to chart it . i know exactly where i was every day. so yes i can blame nfp. most of the time i was check my mucas and signs (not temp) like 4 times aday just to be sure. so trust me i knew my mucus and body extremely well

From my personal 8 years of successful experience with NFP… I’m sorry, but it doesn’t work that way.

If you were ONLY charting mucous, were you taught a mucous-only method? (Creighton, Billings, etc?)
If you were taught the sympto-thermal method, and then ONLY checking the mucous, you won’t have the proper NFP education to go mucous only. You really need to have mucous-only education if you want to use that method… don’t rely on the sympto-thermal method if you’re using mucous-only.

 

[MOMMYOFROSEBUDS]

Did you say that you had instructors verify that you’d conceived during infertile times? How can the instructors say this if there were not chats to review?

yes these were the charts before and my charts were so identical every month that i knew without charting and by checking signs like 4 and 5 times aday (not temp that was only once aday and the same time in the morning 7:00am) just to be sure.

 

[agapewolf]

If someone is using muccous only, they must must must check every time in the bathroom before and after. its not just “4 times” a day. And it has its own rules.

This is not using NFP.

 

[Em_in_FL]

yes these were the charts before and my charts were so identical every month that i knew without charting and by checking signs like 4 and 5 times aday (not temp that was only once aday and the same time in the morning 7:00am) just to be sure.

But you mentioned in a PM that your cycles varied from month to month…
(mine do as well, which is why I chart)
And you also mentioned that you didn’t take your temperature…

 

[kage_ar]

It looks like your instructor gave you some poor instruction.

An earlier message listed the groups for various methods, before you do anything permanant to your body, find a good instructor and take a course.

 

[MOMMYOFROSEBUDS]

Your PM box is full… so I’ll post your question and my answer here.

From my personal 8 years of successful experience with NFP… I’m sorry, but it doesn’t work that way.

If you were ONLY charting mucous, were you taught a mucous-only method? (Creighton, Billings, etc?)
If you were taught the sympto-thermal method, and then ONLY checking the mucous, you won’t have the proper NFP education to go mucous only. You really need to have mucous-only education if you want to use that method… don’t rely on the sympto-thermal method if you’re using mucous-only.

yes i have been schooled in every method and it seemed to me that the mucus only method was more accurate b/c like i said before anyone can have a slight fever at anytime for no reason

 

[MOMMYOFROSEBUDS]

If someone is using muccous only, they must must must check every time in the bathroom before and after. its not just “4 times” a day. And it has its own rules.

This is not using NFP.

yes i know i did check in the bathroom and an additional 4 times aday this is using nfp