Help Needed

[psychiatrist]

I’m engaged in an internet debate with a fundamentalist. Here is her latest salvo. Need some backing up. I have a response written, but I am not a Biblical scholar and there are many on this site who knowledge of the Bible far surpasses mine and would be able to provide a better response. Any help would appreciated. Her latest response:

"You say there isn’t a single catholic doctrine that contradicts scripture. How about proving that? Let’s begin with celibacy. Peter, the apostle, was married. He had a mother-in-law. Why does the catholic church forbid priests to marry?

Why does the catholic religion have priests when the Bible teaches that the Levitical priesthood was done away with and was nailed to the cross with Jesus? The Bible teaches all christians are priests.

Yes Jesus did command us to confess our sins to one another. He didn’t command us to confess them to a PRIEST inside a confessional booth. God gave us the freedom to tell our friends, our family or anyone else about our wrongdoings. Anyone with fundamental Bible knowledge knows the JESUS IS OUR HIGH PRIEST. His dying on the cross did away with the earthly, Levitical priesthood. We can now approach the throne of God directly through Jesus, the only mediator between God and man. JESUS IS OUR ONE AND ONLY MEDIATOR.

Yes you do pray to Mary and the saints. How can you deny this? Unless things have changed, last time I checked, my catholic relatives were still praying to Mary and the saints. Did the catholic church do away with that finally? I sure hope so.

Wait, did you just say that Mary is God’s mother? R U kidding me? So then you think God was created? That Mary was before God? WOW!!!
Please provide a scripture that says Mary is God’s Mother. Mary was Jesus’ earthly mother, not God’s heavenly mother. You need to clarify what you meant.

And since when can dead people pray for anybody? You see, this is another one of those things taught by catholic tradition that is simply hogwash. Can you show me even one scripture where dead people can pray for anyone?

Again, your lack of Biblical knowledge is showing. Do you even know what a saint is? Are you aware that every single christian is a saint. And they didn’t need canonizing. They became saints the moment they were born again.

It sounds like you have made a choice. You have chosen catholic teachings, dogma, doctrine, tradition or whatever you wish to call it, over and above the word of God. That, my friend, is a serious mistake on your part. Please open your mind and your heart to God’s word. There is where salvation is found, and nowhere else."

 

[Calvin_Hobbs]

We will pray for you.

 

[Randy_Carson]

"You say there isn’t a single catholic doctrine that contradicts scripture. How about proving that? Let’s begin with celibacy. Peter, the apostle, was married. He had a mother-in-law. Why does the catholic church forbid priests to marry?

This discussion ought to be a hoot since she obviously does not know what she’s talking about, and you are loaded for bear.

Celibacy and the Catholic Priest

Many people believe that the Catholic Church violates the Word of God because it forbids people to marry (cf. 1 Timothy 4:3) or that it is wrong for priests to remain celibate. To get a clearer picture of this issue, let’s examine what the Bible has to say about the subject of celibacy.

Matthew 19:11-12
11Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

Jesus offers the celibate life as a gift and tells us that “The one who can accept this should accept it.”

1 Corinthians 7:1
1Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry.

1 Corinthians 7:7
7I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.

Paul reveals his own celibacy and offers an earnest wish that more people would follow his example.

1 Corinthians 7:8-9
8Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

Paul concedes that getting married is better than struggling with sexual temptation; for those that “cannot control themselves, they should marry.”

Is Paul completely opposed to marriage? Not at all. The book of Hebrews states:

Hebrews 13:4
Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

Why then does Paul recommend celibacy?

1 Corinthians 7:32-35
32I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. 33But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. 35I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.

From this passage, we can see Paul’s primary reason for advocating celibacy: he wants everyone to live in undivided devotion to the Lord, and in all of these verses, the Bible makes it clear that Jesus calls some men to the priesthood and offers them the gift of a celibate life to be lived in undivided devotion to God. Paul understands that not everyone is offered this gift and that not all to whom it is offered can or will accept it.

There are Catholic priests who are married; typically, these are men who were priests in the Anglican, Orthodox or other faith traditions and have converted to the Catholic faith after they were married in those churches. Under special circumstances, they may be ordained to serve as Catholic priests. Men who are already Catholic when they begin to discern their call to the priesthood must remain celibate.

The Catholic Church forbids no man to marry. However, she does desire that those who will represent Christ, who will stand in persona Christi (in the place of Christ) when administering the sacraments as priests, be like their Lord as fully as possible. This means that like Jesus, they are celibate men prepared to sacrifice their own lives in the service of God and others.

The calling and the gift is offered by God; those who choose to accept it do so freely. Here is an article, “Celibacy is a Gift”, that explains this more fully: catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0102fea5.asp

 

[Randy_Carson]

Why does the catholic religion have priests when the Bible teaches that the Levitical priesthood was done away with and was nailed to the cross with Jesus? The Bible teaches all christians are priests.

Articles on the Priesthood

**The Three-Fold Ministry **
By James Akin
catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9806chap.asp

Bishop, Priest and Deacon
catholic.com/library/Bish…and_Deacon.asp

Did Jesus Give Priests to the Church?
By Kenneth J. Howell
catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0404sbs.asp

 

[Randy_Carson]

Yes Jesus did command us to confess our sins to one another. He didn’t command us to confess them to a PRIEST inside a confessional booth. God gave us the freedom to tell our friends, our family or anyone else about our wrongdoings. Anyone with fundamental Bible knowledge knows the JESUS IS OUR HIGH PRIEST. His dying on the cross did away with the earthly, Levitical priesthood. We can now approach the throne of God directly through Jesus, the only mediator between God and man. JESUS IS OUR ONE AND ONLY MEDIATOR.

Confession and Forgiveness of Sin via the Priesthood Proved from Scripture

Some people object to the Sacrament of Reconciliation (commonly called “Confession”) on the basis that they only need to confess their sins directly to God rather than to a priest. Is this perspective correct? Let’s see what the Bible has to say.

Leviticus 5:5-6
5 " 'When anyone is guilty in any of these ways, he must confess in what way he has sinned 6 and, as a penalty for the sin he has committed, he must bring to the LORD a female lamb or goat from the flock as a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin.

Notice that the Word of God says, “the priest shall make atonement.” Clearly in the Old Testament, the priesthood existed to offer sacrifices and make atonement for the sins committed by the people. Does this idea continue in the New Testament?

Hebrews 10:1
1 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves.

Here the author of Hebrews instructs us that the Old Testament prefigures and foreshadows New Testament truths; the Old is revealed more fully in the New. This seems to suggest that the role of the priest (ie, making atonement) as described in Leviticus should reveal something to us about the New Testament priesthood. So, what does the New Testament teach us about confession of sin?

1 John 1:9
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

We should confess our sins, and God will forgive us, but do we confess our sins to God alone? No!

James 5:13-16
13 Is any one of you in trouble? He should pray. Is anyone happy? Let him sing songs of praise. 14 Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.

Here the word of God tells us to call the elders (the Greek word is presbuteroi, or “presbyter”, from which the English word “priest” is derived). So, in this context, James is telling us to send for the priests who will pray over someone who is sick, and if he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Recalling the passage from Leviticus above, we see there is a strong parallel between the priests of the Old Testament who made atonement for sin and the presbyters or priests of the New Testament to whom we confess sins for forgiveness. But this sounds like blasphemy! Can men really forgive sins? This same question is asked in the New Testament.

Mark 2:5-7
5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” 6Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7"Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

Who can forgive sins but God alone? This question is often asked by those who seek to deny the sacrament of confession. However, note that this question is asked by the scribes who did not accept Jesus. Those who quote this passage find themselves on the side of those who rejected the Messiah. There’s more to the story, however; let’s consider the same incident from the book of Matthew.

Matthew 9:1-7
1 Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. 2Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven.” 3 At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, “This fellow is blaspheming!” 4 Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? 5Which is easier: to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up and walk’? 6But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins…” Then he said to the paralytic, “Get up, take your mat and go home.” 7And the man got up and went home. 8When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to men.

The Bible teaches that God had given the authority to forgive sins “to men”. Note that this is not “to a man” but “to men” – plural. So, it is not only Jesus who has authority to forgive sins – “men” have this authority, also. This sounds like a “hard teaching”…is there confirmation of this in the Bible?

(cont.)

 

[Randy_Carson]

John 20:21-23
21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

How did God send Jesus into the world? With the authority to forgive sins as we saw in Matthew 9:6. How does Jesus send the Apostles? In the same way that the Father had sent Him…with the authority to forgive sins as we have just seen in John 20:23. How could the Apostles obey the commandment of Jesus to forgive sins unless they heard these sins confessed? Thus, scripture records that people did confess their sins aloud.

Acts 19:18 (New International Version)
18Many of those who believed now came and openly confessed their evil deeds.

Finally, we find that the Apostle Paul himself forgave the sins of others acting in persona Christi or “in the person of Christ” – just as the Catholic Church teaches concerning the sacrament of reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 2:10
10To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ; (KJV)

And to whom you have pardoned any thing, I also. For, what I have pardoned, if I have pardoned any thing, for your sakes have I done it in the person of Christ. (Douay Rheims)

Can we go directly to God for the forgiveness of our sins? Of course, but the scriptures just presented suggest that the normative means of forgiveness is by confession to a priest, and while it is true that only God can forgive sins, the Bible teaches that He has chosen to do so through the ordained priesthood and the Sacrament of Reconciliation that He Himself instituted.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Yes you do pray to Mary and the saints. How can you deny this? Unless things have changed, last time I checked, my catholic relatives were still praying to Mary and the saints. Did the catholic church do away with that finally? I sure hope so.

Can We “Pray” to Saints?

Many people believe that it is wrong to “pray” to saints and suggest that prayer should be offered to God alone. While Catholics agree that worship is due to God alone, it is not correct to suggest that we cannot pray to our fellow believers who have gone to heaven before us. The difference in opinion hinges on the definition and usage of the word “pray”. Let’s examine the meaning of this word to resolve this dispute.

Two Meanings, One Word

When we speaking of prayer to God and when we say we’re praying to a saint, we’re talking about two very different types of prayer. However, we use the same word for both in English.

Prayer to God includes worship which is never given to saints while prayer to the saints can include honor that is their due but never worship. Part of our difficulty in understanding one another when speaking of prayer is simply due to semantics.

According to a dictionary definition of “prayer”, the word can mean worship of God, but it also means petition or intercession given to a man. This latter definition is what Catholics mean when they speaking of praying to a saint.

In former times, speakers of Old English would often use phrases such as “Pray tell” or “I pray thee” in everyday speech when speaking to one another. An example of this is found in the King James Version of the Bible which was written in Old English. In 1 Kings 20, we read the following exchange between King Solomon and his mother, Bathsheba:

Then she said, “I desire one small petition of thee; I pray thee, say me not nay.” And the king said unto her, “Ask on, my mother: for I will not say thee nay.”

While this language may sound strange to our modern ears, we can see from this example that one person, speaking to another person, uses the word “pray” in a manner which obviously does not mean communication with God alone.

Necromancy

Another charge leveled against Catholic prayers to saints concerns the prohibition against necromancy which is found in Deuteronomy 18:10-11. However, reading the verse in context, it is clear that God is prohibiting the practice of communicating with the dead through mediums or conjuring up the dead as Saul did through the witch of Endor in 1 Samuel 28.

On the other hand, the Bible does not condemn all communication with the dead. This becomes obvious when we consider that Jesus Himself spoke with the “dead” at the Transfiguration recorded in Matthew 17 where we read:

“After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.” (Matthew 17:1-3)

Additionally, when David asked the angels of heaven to bless the Lord, this also was not offensive to God (Ps.103:20–21). Likewise, when a Catholic asks St. Peter to pray for him, he is not conjuring up a spirit from Hades in order to acquire secret knowledge. After all, those in heaven are “like the angels,” and are more alive than we are, since the Lord is “not God of the dead, but of the living” (Luke 20:36–38). So, if it does not offend God when a Catholic says “St. Peter, pray for me,” we should all rejoice that God has given us the gift of Peter’s prayers.

Can they hear us?

Another charge made is that the saints in heaven cannot even hear our prayers, making it useless to ask for their intercession. However, this is not true. As Scripture indicates, those in heaven are aware of the prayers of those on earth. This can be seen, for example, in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of “golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.” But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us.

Some might try to argue that in this passage the prayers being offered were not addressed to the saints in heaven, but directly to God. Yet this argument would only strengthen the fact that those in heaven can hear our prayers, for then the saints would be aware of our prayers even when they are not directed to them!

In any event, it is clear from Revelation 5:8 that the saints in heaven do actively intercede for us. We are explicitly told by John that the incense they offer to God are the prayers of the saints. Prayers are not physical things and cannot be physically offered to God. Thus the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God mentally. In other words, they are interceding.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Wait, did you just say that Mary is God’s mother? R U kidding me? So then you think God was created? That Mary was before God? WOW!!!

Please provide a scripture that says Mary is God’s Mother. Mary was Jesus’ earthly mother, not God’s heavenly mother. You need to clarify what you meant.

Mary is the mother of Jesus.
Jesus is God.
Therefore, Mary is the mother of God.

She gave birth to one person with two natures. To deny that she is the mother of God is to deny that He is God.

How Can Mary Be God’s Mother?
By Tim Staples
catholic.com/thisrock/2008/0805btb.asp

Calling Mary “Mother of God” Tells Us Who Jesus Is
By Marcellino D’Ambrosio, Ph.D.
catholicexchange.com/2010/01/02/125718/

 

[Randy_Carson]

And since when can dead people pray for anybody? You see, this is another one of those things taught by catholic tradition that is simply hogwash. Can you show me even one scripture where dead people can pray for anyone?

The Saints Can Hear Our Prayers Proved From Scripture

---

1. Jesus teaches from the Old Testament****

“Have you not read in the book of Moses, in the account of the bush, how God said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!” (Mark 12:26-27)

In this teaching, Jesus tells us plainly that the Father is the God of the living.

2. Speaking with the “Dead” - Jesus teaches by parable

---

"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’ He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father’s house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”(Luke 16:19-31)

In this parable, Jesus has two of the “dead” characters in his story talking with one another, and one of the “dead” men intercedes on behalf of his living relatives.

3. Speaking with the “Dead” - Jesus teaches by personal example

---

“After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.” (Matthew 17:1-3)

At the transfiguration, Jesus was talking with two “dead” people, Moses and Elijah. They’re actually alive, though.****

4. Speaking to the dead – Peter teaches by example

---

“Peter sent them all out of the room; then he got down on his knees and prayed. Turning toward the dead woman, he said, “Tabitha, get up.” She opened her eyes, and seeing Peter she sat up. He took her by the hand and helped her to her feet. Then he called the believers and the widows and presented her to them alive.” (Acts 9:40-41)

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5. Those in Heaven Hear Our Prayers - John teaches through prophetic revelation****

---

“He came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.” (Revelation 5:7-8)

The 24 elders in heaven are men, and notice that they each have a golden bowl full of the prayers of the saints. That’s us since we’re all saints! So, how did they get hold of our prayers in order to offer them to God?

“Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all the saints, on the golden altar before the throne.” (Revelation 8:3)

Here, an angel also offers our prayers along with incense. ****

 

[Abu]

psychiatrist
in an internet debate with a fundamentalist. Here is her latest salvo…
You say there isn’t a single catholic doctrine that contradicts scripture. How about proving that?
You have chosen catholic teachings, dogma, doctrine, tradition or whatever you wish to call it, over and above the word of God.

The final authority is what Christ gave us – His Catholic Church as the Bible shows. Christ wrote nothing, but His Church gave us the New Testament and canonised the books of the whole Bible, which is why we have the Bible, from which Protestants have lost some books.

The Apostles, Popes, bishops and priests used the Old Testament and taught what Jesus had taught them – the new covenant which the Apostles and Paul laboriously wrote down over the 35 years or so after the death of Jesus. They ordained priests and installed bishops, baptized, confirmed, forgave sins, witnessed marriages, identified heretics as the Acts of the Apostles records.

Until some years after the printing press was invented in the 15th century, Bibles were scarce and expensive because copied by hand - so often there could be only one book in a town but, nearly everyone who could read could read Latin. Catholic monks faithfully copied the texts, and the production and use of translations, corrupted to support false teachings, was condemned.

The books that actually are the inspired Word of God was decided by Pope Damasus at a Council of Rome in 382, confirmed at the Councils of Hippo, 393, Carthage III 397, Carthage IV in 419, and canonised at the Council of Trent (1545-1563).

As Protestants lack seven books of the O.T., most fail to believe in Purgatory and prayer for the departed, because they lack the authority of Christ through His Catholic Church.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Again, your lack of Biblical knowledge is showing. Do you even know what a saint is? Are you aware that every single christian is a saint. And they didn’t need canonizing. They became saints the moment they were born again.

True, but we are using the term “Saint” in a technical sense meaning those who have been formally canonized. She fails to grasp that while all are “saints”, only a few have been designated as “Saints”.

 

[PeterGStanley]

A baptist said to me once I should not pray to the dead and I answered - so you are saying they are dead in Jesus Christ and I quoted “I am the God of the living not the dead” and he couldn’t answer me - he would of had to say they were dead in Christ.

I will never understand their problem with Mary - in her prayer she says all generations will call me blessed I guess some Christians just can’t say it or believe it - it is scriptural.

I find it funny how some quote one line scriptures out of context without taking in the whole meaning.I guess I did that above but my quote is true.

I find that these arguments go around in a big circle and are never resolved - I think we should look for things in common and try to find some unity because like it or not we are all brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[Abu]

Query to psychiatrist
Peter, the apostle, was married. He had a mother-in-law. Why does the catholic church forbid priests to marry?

Among the Apostles, only Saint Peter is known to have been married because his mother-in-law is mentioned in the Gospels, but no mention is made of his wife or children. Tradition tells us that he was a widower who was caring for his wife’s aged mother. Some of the others might have been married, but there is no indication of this and it is a clear that they left everything, including their families, to follow Christ.

St. Peter asked Our Lord, “What about us? We left all we had to follow you.” The Divine Master answered: “I tell you solemnly, there is no one who has left house, wife, brothers, parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God, who will not be given repayment many times over in this present time and, in the world to come, eternal life” (Lk 18:28-30, cf. Mt 19:27-30; Mk 10:20-21).

From the beginning, continence was required for priest and bishop – for Early Church Tradition the most important studies are: Apostolic Origins of Priestly Celibacy, by Fr. Christian Cochini, S.J.(Ignatius, San Francisco, 1990); The Case for Clerical Celibacy, by Alfons Maria Cardinal Stickler (Ignatius, San Francisco, 1995); Celibacy in the Early Church, by Fr. Stefan Heid, (Ignatius, San Francisco, 2000).

Based on solid documentation, these authors show that although one cannot speak of celibacy in the strict sense of the word (not being married), it is certain that since apostolic times the Church had as a norm that men elevated to the deaconate, priesthood and the episcopate should observe continence. If candidates happened to be married – a very common occurrence in the early Church – they were supposed to cease, with the consent of their spouses, not only marital life but even cohabitation under the same roof.

“In 1969 Christian Cocchini, S.J. completed his doctoral thesis at the Institut Catholique, on the history of clerical celibacy. The president of the examiners who approved his dissertation was Cardinal Danielou. Cocchini’s mastery of the sources from the New Testament to the seventh century is unequalled.

This is what he found:
“From the beginnings of the Church, and throughout the Greco-Latin world, a single rule prevailed: Priests were celibate; or else, if they had married before ordination, they and their wives promised to live together thereafter without the use of the marriage. This rule was an Apostolic norm; it was proclaimed and practiced by the Apostles; and that norm in turn was founded upon the example of our Lord Himself.

“Clerics were often chosen from among married older men. After ordination they were required to abstain from conjugal intercourse. In effect then, they were not married. Qui habent uxores, tamquam non habentes sint. “Let those who are married live as if they do not have wives”. Pope Leo the Great in 458 AD borrowed those words of Saint Paul in order to describe the celibacy of the clergy.” (I Cor. 7:29). [Letter from Pope Leo to Rusticus, Bishop of Narbonne]. The Origin Of Priestly Celibacy, by Hugh Ballantyne, June 2003]

Fr Anthony Zimmerman refers to *Apostolic Origins of Priestly Celibacy *“which argues cogently from the sources that the tradition of clerical celibacy began with the apostles. If that is true, then opponents of obligatory celibacy oppose not the pope, but the twelve apostles. The book, written by Christian Cochini, S.J. (translated from French, Ignatius Press, 1990), merited this remarkable encomium from the late Henri Cardinal de Lubac: ‘This work is of the first importance. It is the result of serious and extensive research. There is nothing even remotely comparable to this work in this whole 20th century.’ And Curator of the Vatican Library, Fr. Alfons M. Stickler (later Cardinal) wrote: ‘This authoritative work is fully in accordance with the tradition of the Society of Jesus in the area of high-level scientific apostolate’ (Foreword to Cochini’s book)."

 

[Church_Militant]

I’m engaged in an internet debate with a fundamentalist. Here is her latest salvo. Need some backing up. I have a response written, but I am not a Biblical scholar and there are many on this site who knowledge of the Bible far surpasses mine and would be able to provide a better response. Any help would appreciated. Her latest response:

"You say there isn’t a single catholic doctrine that contradicts scripture. How about proving that? Let’s begin with celibacy. Peter, the apostle, was married. He had a mother-in-law. Why does the catholic church forbid priests to marry?

I have several articles on my blog that might help you with this person. Priestly celibacy is unBiblical. NOT!

Why does the catholic religion have priests when the Bible teaches that the Levitical priesthood was done away with and was nailed to the cross with Jesus? The Bible teaches all christians are priests.

Make her supply you with scriptures that specifically says this. I’ve read my Bible (all 73 books of it.) several times and continue to do so and I have never seen any such.

Yes Jesus did command us to confess our sins to one another. He didn’t command us to confess them to a PRIEST inside a confessional booth. God gave us the freedom to tell our friends, our family or anyone else about our wrongdoings.

Catholic Confession & Scriptures About Penance

Anyone with fundamental Bible knowledge knows

Doesn’t look like she has that “fundamental Bible knowledge”…
Do Catholics Read the Bible?

the JESUS IS OUR HIGH PRIEST. His dying on the cross did away with the earthly, Levitical priesthood. We can now approach the throne of God directly through Jesus, the only mediator between God and man. JESUS IS OUR ONE AND ONLY MEDIATOR.

Make her show you where the New Testament says that specifically, because the verse she’s using is 1st Timothy 2:5 If Christians are not Mediators for one another, then why do we pray for one another as the Bible teaches?

Yes you do pray to Mary and the saints. How can you deny this? Unless things have changed, last time I checked, my catholic relatives were still praying to Mary and the saints. Did the catholic church do away with that finally? I sure hope so.

The Intercession & Communion of Saints

Wait, did you just say that Mary is God’s mother? R U kidding me? So then you think God was created? That Mary was before God? WOW!!!
Please provide a scripture that says Mary is God’s Mother. Mary was Jesus’ earthly mother, not God’s heavenly mother. You need to clarify what you meant.

Pillars of Reformation on Mary shows that the Reformers taught that Mary was the mother of God and what she is spouting is called the Nestorian Heresy.

And since when can dead people pray for anybody? You see, this is another one of those things taught by catholic tradition that is simply hogwash. Can you show me even one scripture where dead people can pray for anyone?

See the link on the Intercession of saints above…

Again, your lack of Biblical knowledge is showing. Do you even know what a saint is? Are you aware that every single christian is a saint. And they didn’t need canonizing. They became saints the moment they were born again.

This is just polemics and you may as well ignore it. (BTW, the best way to improve any lack in your Biblical knowledge is to do what everybody else does…read your Bible.

It sounds like you have made a choice. You have chosen catholic teachings, dogma, doctrine, tradition or whatever you wish to call it, over and above the word of God. That, my friend, is a serious mistake on your part. Please open your mind and your heart to God’s word. There is where salvation is found, and nowhere else."

The bad news for her is that her whole premise is based upon the errant foundation of the Reformer’s error of Sola Scriptura. She evidently believes that everything that Christians believe and practice has to be found in the Bible and the problem is that that concept is nowhere found in the Word of God. It’s just simply not there. Check out these 3 threads here at CAF where I’ve given n-Cs a chance to prove otherwise…without success.
It’s NOT in the Bible, okay?
It’s NOT in the Bible, okay? (Part II)
“If anyone teaches/preaches something that is not in scripture”