Help Please! Advice sought for troubled pre-teen

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To the OP, personally I think that blaming yourself or your relationship with your husband is useless and counter-productive. Speaking as a child who at 13 ran away from home you shouldn’t see any of this as necessarily “your” fault. My parents had and still have a wonderful marriage, they were both devout catholics and still are. I was taught my faith from day one, I went to catechism and we RARELY missed mass.

Despite all of this, I still managed to turn into a rebelious, selfish little monster by the time I was 13. After I ran away, my parents sent me to a sort of in-patient treatment hospital mainly for kids with substance abuse and depresion problems (eventhough I was not using drugs). I was there for six weeks, recieved counseling daily and eventually was released after learning to say all the right things, basically what my counselors and parents wanted to hear just so I could get out of there.

There were still problems after that and eventually I went to live with a family member for almost 1 yr 1/2 of high school.
They were very good to me and also very devout catholics.

Eventually, I grew up and realized what a rotton brat I had been and by the time I was a junior I was back at home and a productive and responsible member of my family.

Now after two decades and four children of my own, I regret terribly the pain I caused my parents and siblings. I have since apologized to them all and have learned to forgive myself.

I think the hardest thing for kids to learn growing up is how the decisions you make affect the rest of your life.

What I have done with my own children is allow them to learn from there mistakes. They are still young so I do this within reason, but if they, for example, “forget” to bring their dirty clothes down repeatedly, then I simply “forget” to wash them. So when one of them comes downstairs and says, “Mom, I don’t have any underwear”, then I say, “well, I guess you should have remembered to bring them down to the laundry”.

The problem with teenagers is they want to be treated like adults and make their own decisions, but at the same time they don’t want to act like adults and accept the consequences of the decisions they make.

My advice is yes, seek counseling, but trust your instincts and don’t try to be your daughters friend, she has enough of those I’m sure. Remember that it’s not just her grades that you must worry about, but her spiritual being as well.

Get her involved in a good parish youth group and encourage her to frequent confession (if you are catholic).

Most importantly, she has decided that she no longer needs you to make decisions for her, let her deal with that. If she feels she is ready for that kind of responsibility, than let her face all that goes along with it, ie don’t do her laundry for her anymore, if she wants to eat dinner make her help in the preparation or clean up. If she wants a new cd make her buy it with her own money.

The best thing about using this tact is that there doesn’t have to be any yelling or fighting on your part, you simply stop doing things. And, if you think about it, you will be teaching her a valuable life lesson, self-reliance.

Children are capable of much more than we give them credit for. We baby them in modern society, and we allow them to grow into adulthood with extreme immaturity.

100 years ago 12 yr old girls were, sewing, cooking, taking care of babies, gardening and anything else their families needed of them. Surely our kids are capable of doing the minimal things that we now ask of them.

I will pray for you.
 
Sorry to post again after my previous lengthly one, but if you were to ask my mother what her biggest regret was in raising her children, she would say that she did to much for them.

A spoiled child (and I don’t just mean materialy here) will grow to be a selfish teenager and that’s what all of my problems boiled down to.

Also, consider homeschooling if that is something that is doable for your family. This will curtail the secular influence that contributes to the attitudes prevelant among american teenagers.

God bless you
 
I’m sorry about your situation. I know many good families who are having trouble with their kids. It’s tough to be a parent and a kid these days. I’ll pray for your family.
—KCT
 
Wow. Alot of posts since I last checked. Thanks so much everyone. There are some very good insights here.

I would like to add that my daughter does not have internet access, she does have a cell phone for emergencies but never uses it, and she is always taken to and from school by me. She does have a TV which she now needs to ask permission to turn on and is only told yes on occasion and in response to good behavior. She spends most of her non-homework time reading or doing puzzles or playing with her little sister. She plays team basketball (2X per week) and during warmer months she swims nearly every day. Oh, plus she has chores everyday… though she usually procrastinates in doing them. So, she is does not fit the average “out of control” kid in all ways. However, everything I previously posted are serious problems.

There are many well thought out suggestions for my family. In addition to counselling, I especially like the idea of some sort of community work. I would love to get her involved with the faith in some way. I am the only practicing Catholic in our family. My husband, last I checked was violently opposed to the kids being involved in Church. I do not exaggerate here.

There are serious problems in the marriage and the “fruit” of those problems is manifesting itself. I agree with the sentiment that my husband and I need counselling just as much as my daughter. I also agree that she needs to take responsibility for her actions and sitting around analyzing whose fault it is will not produce action. Like so many posts, my op was written after a trauma and I needed to vent. I appreciate all of your caring responses.
 
I would very much suggest you get your family into therapy, if only to have a neutral party help you sort out what page you and your husband are going to choose to be on together and to give you an experienced guide who will help you eliminate courses of action that are not likely to work with your daughter.

Do not despair. If your daughter has always been an A and B student, then she has some go-get in her. Do make a pact between yourself and your husband with regards to trusting your therapist and under what conditions either of you will be allowed to disengage from the process. This is not going to be an easy out and there are guaranteed to be discouraging days ahead. If you are going to keep a consistent course, you are going to have to put your faith down and take a fast from second-guessing.
 
Prayer Warrior,
if it consoles you, I’m almost 20 now, but used to be very similar to your daughter at 12 years of age and even until the age of 15. I grew up among non-practicing Catholics and saw an example of violent behaviour both verbally and physically in the home. I took that as license to do the same. If it consoles you any, I am now a practicing and converted Catholic, and the change my family saw in me (at 15/16 years of age) compelled them to bring about major changes in themselves. So, my advice: offer your blood, sweat, tears and love for the girl. I don’t know how many people were praying for me, really I don’t know. But I know that the Holy Spirit softened up my cold and callous heart, which of course will continue to flower more and more in the years to come.

Take her rude behaviour, disrespect, and aggression with a grain of salt. My mother must have suffered tremendously by my rebellious, violent, and agressive behaviour. I was so terrible, and I do still sometimes have the urge to lash out when I don’t get my way, but God is my lamp right now and guides me toward His light.
Almost all problems at home used to begin because of me, but when I looked at my mother, she always respected me through it all. That doesn’t mean that she didn’t yell at me and correct my behaviour, certainly I think that was in some ways what she had to do considering how difficult I was. But I ALWAYS saw her beautiful example of faith and love. She ALWAYS listened to me, and respected me, and seemed to take my anger and rebelliousness with a grain of salt. She knew, even when I didn’t, that my bad behaviour doesn’t make me who I am. It is not my identity.

Know something, you have a lot of dignity, and are worthy of respect; don’t let your daughter’s rebelliousness discourage you. Your daughter is misguided and needs to be led back to the sheepfold. Until that day, which will come in God’s time, offer up your prayers and sufferings to God. The suffering you experience now will only make you more holy when you transform it. I’m sure you know that.
Love,
-unworthy
 
unworthy said:
Prayer Warrior,
if it consoles you, I’m almost 20 now, but used to be very similar to your daughter at 12 years of age and even until the age of 15. I grew up among non-practicing Catholics and saw an example of violent behaviour both verbally and physically in the home. I took that as license to do the same. If it consoles you any, I am now a practicing and converted Catholic, and the change my family saw in me (at 15/16 years of age) compelled them to bring about major changes in themselves. So, my advice: offer your blood, sweat, tears and love for the girl. I don’t know how many people were praying for me, really I don’t know. But I know that the Holy Spirit softened up my cold and callous heart, which of course will continue to flower more and more in the years to come.

Take her rude behaviour, disrespect, and aggression with a grain of salt. My mother must have suffered tremendously by my rebellious, violent, and agressive behaviour. I was so terrible, and I do still sometimes have the urge to lash out when I don’t get my way, but God is my lamp right now and guides me toward His light.
Almost all problems at home used to begin because of me, but when I looked at my mother, she always respected me through it all. That doesn’t mean that she didn’t yell at me and correct my behaviour, certainly I think that was in some ways what she had to do considering how difficult I was. But I ALWAYS saw her beautiful example of faith and love. She ALWAYS listened to me, and respected me, and seemed to take my anger and rebelliousness with a grain of salt. She knew, even when I didn’t, that my bad behaviour doesn’t make me who I am. It is not my identity.

Know something, you have a lot of dignity, and are worthy of respect; don’t let your daughter’s rebelliousness discourage you. Your daughter is misguided and needs to be led back to the sheepfold. Until that day, which will come in God’s time, offer up your prayers and sufferings to God. The suffering you experience now will only make you more holy when you transform it. I’m sure you know that.
Love,
-unworthy
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Thank you for the powerful testimony. It brings tears to my eyes and much consolation. I have been praying for her and will continue to do so.

:blessyou:
 
Julianna is not extreme in her opinion. It may be the only thing that works. The child’s behavior is extreme, and it needs to be dealt with consistently and firmly. Her idea of ‘blackout’, as Dr. Ray calls it, is a very effective strategy for most kids. I say try it. Check out www.drray.com for more info on this strategy.
 
Teakafrog said:
Julianna is not extreme in her opinion. It may be the only thing that works. The child’s behavior is extreme, and it needs to be dealt with consistently and firmly. Her idea of ‘blackout’, as Dr. Ray calls it, is a very effective strategy for most kids. I say try it. Check out www.drray.com for more info on this strategy.
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perhaps it is not extreme if this was all the childs fault but from what I am reading this involves more than just the child…
 
Prayer Warrior-

Depending on how often these things occur, I would say different things. Definitely a good, Christian therapist is necessary for your whole family. I don’t think any of the suggestions for your daughter posted above are extreme, depending on the frequency of her bad behavior.

Here’s my story:

I am the oldest of six children, parents are married and all of us are Catholic, but still many things hit home for me about your story. My next sibling down is two and a half yrs younger than me, and we were both adopted. I was mommy and daddy’s “little angel” because I have always been well-behaved, and even when I disobeyed, they honestly never knew about it (until I told my mom years later, because I had been feeling guilty for about two years after I confessed all these things). I had a my “conversion” - making my Catholic faith my own - at the end of high school and have really clung to my faith and grown. Then there’s my sister, who was a terror from age 2 on. She had a complete disregard for rules and was awful to the rest of us. I remember her coming up to me when I was in elementary school with knives and scissors and threatening me (never actually touching me with them though) and throwing things at me when she didn’t get her way. She once broke my bedroom window and tried to run me over with my own bike. She was an angel outside of our house, but had always been an average student and didn’t have too many friends. So, I think your daughter is not nearly this extreme (or so it sounds).

However, there are two things that are related - my parents’ reactions and the way she treats her younger sister.

My parents are kind of like you and your husband, except my dad is not controlling. My mom is the one who disciplines first and my dad has rarely backed her up because he had an awful childhood (father who was pretty abusive) and because of this he has never been one for discipline period. Usually when my sister would act up or disobey, my mom would try to give her consequences, such as sending her to her room or grounding her off the phone, and she would flat out refuse. Then, when my mom couldn’t do anything else, my dad would come in, completely agitated because my sister would by then be spouting off profanities, and scream at her - calling her not-so-nice names, and had to drag her upstairs and such, completely losing his temper. My parents were mentioning divorce many times when I was growing up due to this conflict.

My sister also terrorized my four younger siblings - not so much physically, but mentally. My mom got the majority of her physical abuse (she beat my mom up a couple of times). She would demean them constantly and now I have a teenage brother who is struggling with his sexuality because he says he is so angry at her (and my parents to a point for letting her) for constantly putting him down. She was awful when it came to his masculinity as a boy and even still makes rude comments when she’s around him. He’s going through his own therapy now with a great Catholic counselor who is helping him with his anger. My youngest sister who is 11 now (I’m 23) and I shared a room when we moved into our present house (7 yrs ago) because previous to that, I had my own room and they shared a room, but my youngest sister wasn’t allowed in the room when the other one was in a bad mood and she was afraid to go in there. The other boys were a little better in that they didn’t take it once they could talk. They’d call her bluff or say something back to her which many times resulted in her hitting them. They still suffer scars though, esp. from trying to defend my mom when she was trying to beat her up (which I had nightmares for months and was afraid of the dark during high school due to this). When she was in therapy, my whole family went from time to time, or individually to talk to the therapist about how we felt and what happened. It really helped us. We even met as a family with another therapist when my parents were getting counseling to kick my sister out (after two years of me tellling them to and my dad wanting to). That also helped all of us.

My sister got years of intense therapy and was kicked out off the house three months before my wedding this past summer. She’s finally wised-up now that she gets no financial help from my parents. She’s doing well. She does struggle with mental illness (bipolar disorder) but is much nicer and everyone but my brother can pretty much handle her now.

continued…
 
continued from previous post…
We know of another family that sent their son to one of those military schools and he came back a new person. It’s been a year and a half now and he’s still pretty good.

The main reason I’m telling you this is that you are not alone with your situation (esp. with your husband and disciplining - it’s still a struggle with my parents but my dad is getting better, esp with the younger ones) and also that the time to start trying something different is now because it does affect everyone (esp. your little one). My sister’s situation was and is extreme esp. with her mental illness (she also had RAD), so I’m sure your daughter looks like an angel in comparison. You will be in my prayers :). It’s best to get her help now before she’s older and even more defiant.
 
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