Help please: College problems, sons and problems

[ccmcmg]

Hello, and thank you for listening/offering advice. I’m not very good at putting my own personal problems like this out there, especially when it reveals my own sins/weaknesses/failures.

We have 2 college aged sons (21/almost 23). They are good guys: no girl problems, no drugs or major drinking. They are respectful and can be very hard workers. I love them almost more than life itself.

Our oldest had struggles from the beginning in college; he went to a major Univ and ‘failed’, so went to the community college, earned his general associate’s degree, and then to the other nearby university; he again struggled, refused to get help, and has not taken classes for a year. He isn’t sure what he wants to do, as he has struggled/failed in the things he had dreamed of. He now has a part time job, and lives with his younger brother in this university town. He has no plans for the future. I believe he may have some issues with depression (which I think he might deny)…it runs in the family, and I want him to see a doctor for it. I also know the dangers of antidepressants for young men, but the dangers of depression are also big.

Son 2 had been doing well until this year (3rd year of college). He joined a club sport, and part of it was that he had to maintain grades to keep doing so. He kept from us his probation that he was put on for 2nd semester; he was notified (and just NOW revealed it to us) that he was suspended from attending class this fall semester. He also has a part time job. He would still be ‘allowed’ by the club sport (so he says) to participate this fall, even while not attending college. However, this is against what we told him would happen. The consequences were laid out that this activity would be suspended if his grades suffered. He also has a part time job at the same place as his brother (grocery).

We currently pay for all their schooling and subsidize their funds for groceries and housing. We have provided an older car (one between the two of them), and pay for the insurance. We have now paid for many years of full time college in which they managed to receive only part time credits (full time is a flat rate here; we paid for enrollment of 15+ hours, but they only earned credits less than 12 hours).

Armed Service is not an option for the older because of a pre-existing condition (Celiac disease). The other one has never considered it or brought it up. His field of choice (actually, both of their favorite fields) could be completed in the service, as well as getting college paid for. But I seriously doubt he will consider it; I’m not sure that’s even what I would want for him. (Selfish or not, that’s how I feel.)

Are we out of line for taking the club sport out of the equation? It’s a very physically demanding sport, and to be honest, the coaching of this sport is both immoral and unfair at this location. He loves it, but things have come to light where we actually question its safety, both on and off the ‘field’.

Are we out of line telling them that they need to return home if they do not have a 40 hour full time job, or at the least, 2 part time jobs that equal at least 40 hours? I know that their argument will be that to leave and then try to return at semester (if the youngest gets back in) they may not have living arrangements or a job. In addition, our oldest has still not made any effort to enroll in school.

Oh how I miss the days of the ‘hard times’ of toilet training, and after school homework.

I hope I’ve provided enough information that someone might have some advice. We’re at a loss. Completely. I think we clearly have let them have it too easy thus far, and contributed to their what seems to be lackadaisical attitude towards growing up and life. ** I can’t change the past and the mistakes we’ve made, but I can change what happens with us in the future.** But I don’t want to break their ‘spirit’ towards growing up, towards college, and towards us.

Thanks again, and God bless you.

 

[1ke]

At 21 and 23 they are now adults and your financial support should either cease or be conditional on them fulfilling all of your requirements and i’d even make the money available in arears (they pay up front with their money and if they pass classes then are reimbursed for tuition, or whatever you agree to, by you).

Personally, at their age I favor stopping support as it teaches them to be serious and stop piddling around.

They are acting more like children than adults with sports club and other activities taking priority over school. Failing grades and dropped classes = not taking it seriously and stagnating in prolonged, subsidized adolescence.

They can get jobs, loans, or whatever, and come up with their own way to finance school. It will likely mean more to them if they are having to fork over the money. If neither really knows what they want to do, then let them work a while and go back to school when they are older.

time to stop funding their situation, IMHO.

You can offer a soft landing place at home if they choose to leave school-- ie. stay at home and work 6 months to save rent and deposit money, etc.

 

[Xantippe]

I do not have children that age yet, but this is the plan I will offer our children when they reach college age:

–no more than 4 years of school (barring unusual extenuating circumstances)
–our funding will be the equivalent of the cost of attending our state college (so a maximum of about $20-25k in college funding per year)
–reasonable academic performance
–reasonable behavior (I’ll have to fill the details of this in at some later point)
–following house rules (curfew, chores, etc.) if they choose to live at home and go to school (we may give them some sort of financial incentive to do so, because it would be much cheaper for us)

It’s a little late, but you may wish to make up a similar list for your boys and explain to them under what circumstances you will continue to fund them. You might want to make some sort of addendum for giving them funding if they are doing unpaid or low-paid internships.

I’d be tempted to give them each a $2,000 car and as an end-of-parental-funding gift, even if you decide to cut off other funding. I wouldn’t cut them off right away without any kind of warning, but I would start the clock now and inform them. Part-time study does not merit full-time funding. People who are studying part-time can work full-time, just as people who are working part-time can study full-time.

Best wishes!

 

[bitterhope]

My kids are too young still for me to have dealt with these issues yet, but I know what my parents would do (and did). We were allowed to live at home, rent free, until high school graduation. After graduation, we had the choice to remain at home rent free while we worked and saved money or worked and paid for our own schooling. As long as we followed the rules of the house we could remain home rent free, but if we violated their trust or any of the rules/curfews we were given a 90 day notice.

I think that as a parent you have done the best you knew how, just as my parents did. They raised 11 of us, and most of us have turned out great, but all of us gave them problems along the way. If my kids started to have trouble I would give them the choice of moving home or losing financial support from us. You should not be paying for adult men to live their lives in any way they sit fit. They are adults and they need to support themselves. Many people are married with children at their ages and able to make it on their own. It can be done. I don’t suggest just cutting things off, but give them the choice. Let them know that you are confident they are capable of making things work out, but you can no longer help them from a distance. If they are wanting help they need to return home. My parents noticed that most of us returned home after leaving at least once or twice. I was one of the only one’s that didn’t, but I married young and had babies right away. I’m thinking the only reason I didn’t return home is often my husband and I lived in places too far away to visit let alone move back.

I dread those days coming. Right now my oldest is 15 so I still have some time left. I’m sure you have raised boys that are moral and capable of making good choices. Trust in God. Trust in them. And trust in your own parenting. I’ll pray for your family.

 

[robwar]

Op,
I understand, we have a 19 years old that wanted to go away to college but we had him stay at home to attend the community college. It seems from your post that the older boy should probably not be living with the younger at the college town goofying off and influencing the younger not to take school seriously which resulted in the younger son to end up on probation. I would probably have the older one either find a job at home and then try and have the younger one drop the club sport and part time job, get serious and finish up and move on. Tell the older boy that if he doesn’t know what he wants to do and can’t finish school that he needs to find a full time job either at home (to build up some money to live on his own) or find a full time job else where and just live on his own. It seems like the mistake was having the boys live together at the university town where the one wasn’t going to school and could influence the other not to take it seriously.

 

[Xantippe]

Our oldest had struggles from the beginning in college; he went to a major Univ and ‘failed’, so went to the community college, earned his general associate’s degree, and then to the other nearby university; he again struggled, refused to get help, and has not taken classes for a year. He isn’t sure what he wants to do, as he has struggled/failed in the things he had dreamed of. He now has a part time job, and lives with his younger brother in this university town. He has no plans for the future. I believe he may have some issues with depression (which I think he might deny)…it runs in the family, and I want him to see a doctor for it. I also know the dangers of antidepressants for young men, but the dangers of depression are also big.

Son 2 had been doing well until this year (3rd year of college). He joined a club sport, and part of it was that he had to maintain grades to keep doing so. He kept from us his probation that he was put on for 2nd semester; he was notified (and just NOW revealed it to us) that he was suspended from attending class this fall semester. He also has a part time job. He would still be ‘allowed’ by the club sport (so he says) to participate this fall, even while not attending college. However, this is against what we told him would happen. The consequences were laid out that this activity would be suspended if his grades suffered. He also has a part time job at the same place as his brother (grocery).

Are we out of line telling them that they need to return home if they do not have a 40 hour full time job, or at the least, 2 part time jobs that equal at least 40 hours? I know that their argument will be that to leave and then try to return at semester (if the youngest gets back in) they may not have living arrangements or a job. In addition, our oldest has still not made any effort to enroll in school.

Here’s more specific advice.

1. Continued support of oldest son should be contingent on him seeing a career counselor and seeing a therapist/psychiatrist/whatever until he has formulated and implemented a new plan for his future. He’s going nowhere right now, and you don’t need to fund the trip. You may wish to talk to a psychiatrist or your family doctor about whether or not to bring him home.

By the way, do you think he could have undiagnosed adult ADHD? I would definitely have a full evaluation done for him. If that’s the case, it may be that he needs a lot more support with organization.

1. Follow through on what you told your younger son about what would happen if he wasn’t able to keep his grades up while doing his club sport.

Best wishes!

 

[Xantippe]

Op,
I understand, we have a 19 years old that wanted to go away to college but we had him stay at home to attend the community college. It seems from your post that the older boy should probably not be living with the younger at the college town goofying off and influencing the younger not to take school seriously which resulted in the younger son to end up on probation. I would probably have the older one either find a job at home and then try and have the younger one drop the club sport and part time job, get serious and finish up and move on. Tell the older boy that if he doesn’t know what he wants to do and can’t finish school that he needs to find a full time job either at home (to build up some money to live on his own) or find a full time job else where and just live on his own. It seems like the mistake was having the boys live together at the university town where the one wasn’t going to school and could influence the other not to take it seriously.

That’s very insightful, I think.

It probably wasn’t a great influence on the younger boy to see the older one getting funded for a year when he wasn’t in school.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Are we out of line telling them that they need to return home if they do not have a 40 hour full time job, or at the least, 2 part time jobs that equal at least 40 hours? I know that their argument will be that to leave and then try to return at semester (if the youngest gets back in) they may not have living arrangements or a job. In addition, our oldest has still not made any effort to enroll in school.

I don’t see how that would be out of line as 1ke notes. First of all, you are still their parents and secondly, you are subsidizing their existence.

The son you suspect who may depression—I would discuss options with him about getting counseling to see if there is something there. I think a lot of times depression is a mask for something else that may be going on.

 

[HCTC]

My advice is to continue to love your sons as much as ever, but stop supporting them. I would pay their rent for two months in advance and sign the car over to them as co-owners for $1; pay liability insurance in their names for six months and make sure that the car is registered in their names.

Go to you sons’ residence to tell them about their new circumstances. Tell your sons how much you love them and that you have every confidence that they will succeed at life. Tell them that you will be praying for them and ask them to pray for you. Tell them that you are always there for them if they need advice or a hot meal or just someone to talk to. It takes a lot of strength to serve as an emotional safety net while discontinuing your sons’ financial support, but that is what I would attempt to do. Give your sons the gift of their adulthood.

When my youngest son was in college, he was arrested for public drunkenness - not driving but walking with friends on the street. He actually spent five days in jail without calling me. When I found out about it several years later, I was appalled and hurt that he did not call me. He said, “I knew you would pay the bail - which was exorbitant. It was a college town. I was a college student. They thought I’d call mommy, and you’d pay whatever to get me out.” He said that if I’d bailed him out, he wouldn’t have gotten a court date for six weeks and he would have needed a lawyer. As it was, when they figured out that no one was going to pay his bail, he got an immediate court date and was fined $50.00. I think he was 20 at the time, and he evidently wanted to claim his adulthood by suffering the consequences of his behavior and resolving his own problem.

 

[Allegra]

I think your kids are too old for you to be paying their bills. I can see paying for tuition, but paying their board, car, and bills in their 20’s? I know people who were married, in a mortgage, and had a kid or two themselves by 23! I’d say, cut the cord already. My aunt has a good system for college tuition. She pays for As. (retroactively) She pays half the cost of Bs.

 

[HopenHappiness]

What you propose is very reasonable and generous if you ask me. Of course I have been accused of being mean by others, but my son knows the value of a Dollar, and our relationship with him couldn’t be better if we wanted to.

I was only blessed with one child a Son, when he was in HS, as long as he got good grades B’s and above average he could use the family car. When he got a job at 15 he had the choice of paying 10% of his pay check or a flat rate of $20.00 a week, he chose the $20.00 (I put this in a secret account to give back to him at his HS Graduation so he could get a good used car) plus it was teaching him saving and responsibility. Hubby was selling his car, Son asked to buy it, we sold it to him. At a lower price then we would of, but he still paid that price. We keep the insurance agreement as long as the grades were good, and if were to get a ticket, then the insurance bill was all his.

He graduated HS, loved his present of all his money back and then some and just about everything he got at his graduation party went into savings. He then applied to a state college, and before we could tell him what we could afford to help with, he found himself a paying internship that paid for all his schooling in turn he had to work at the place during winter break and Summer break. We did not charge him Room and Board in college since he was paying for it himself, and I knew he was saving money also. He never asked for one dime from us for his schooling, and he graduated with a Master’s degree in Computer Engineering without one dime of debt.

Now his friend who parents gave him everything never finished a degree at college, finally after 7 years they cut the schooling off and told him going to college is not a job. And he had to go find a real job, because he had 6 months to get his act together. After Ten’s of thousands of dollars spent on his education, he is proudly working at a discount store as a minimum wage clerk, and he and his GF live a not so nice apartment, in a not so nice part of town.

I have seen so many kids who are handed everything with good intentions never grow up and then get angry the parents won’t fork over more money. If you work for things, you appreciate them more. While we want to give our kids everything, and be their best friends, we need to restrain ourselves and teach them about real live and how to earn what you want. You have plenty of time later to be their best friends.

Good Luck

 

[CradleJourney]

I hope I’ve provided enough information that someone might have some advice. We’re at a loss. Completely. I think we clearly have let them have it too easy thus far, and contributed to their what seems to be lackadaisical attitude towards growing up and life. ** I can’t change the past and the mistakes we’ve made, but I can change what happens with us in the future.** But I don’t want to break their ‘spirit’ towards growing up, towards college, and towards us.

Thanks again, and God bless you.

(((HUGS))) to you. Being a mom is HARD!!!

Now, my opinion … you’ve raised them, now you have to let them go. Which means letting them succeed or fail on their own. As a parent it’s very, very hard to let our kids fail (by whatever definition), but we also have to give them that freedom.

So - what to do? I agree with others in that you need to withdrawal financial support from them, but I’d also agree to do so gradually.

What we have for ours is a strict rule that by 21 or end of 4 yrs of college, you need to be self-sufficient. That said, we don’t change the locks on our family home, there’s always food in the fridge, a working washer and dryer, and free showers. Children are allowed to move back in but only for a few months while working full-time and making plans to move out. For us, this allows us to communicate that we love and care about them (hence the perpetual food / water source) - but that we also respect them enough to recognize them as adults (people who make their own decisions and live with the outcomes).

And that’s how I’d approach it - point out that the current situation cannot continue indefinitely, that you’ll do “X” until such-and-such date (such as pay 6 months of car insurance) but then they will have to decide what to do about it at that point (pay the ins or do w/o a car). Let them know that you are right there ready to provide support in other ways (whatever seems reasonable to you - be it letting them move back home, providing tuition if grades are at a certain level, helping create resumes, or whatever else). But also let them know what you are no longer going to do and when you will be stopping it.

Remember at this point, you can’t tell them what to do. You can only lovingly and supportively tell them what YOU will / won’t do. And of course, prayer is definitely on the “do” list!!

Hope that helps.

 

[Warandpeace]

Hello,

The economic situation right now for young people does not look very well. If you do not help them fix the fear they face about their future, you will be going nowhere with them.

God Bless

 

[ccmcmg]

Thanks to all; I appreciate your responses; especially the ones that don’t assume facts not in evidence , or judge/condemn past mistakes. I can’t change the past, but only work on the future.

At 21 and 23 they are now adults and your financial support should either cease or be conditional on them fulfilling all of your requirements and i’d even make the money available in arears (they pay up front with their money and if they pass classes then are reimbursed for tuition, or whatever you agree to, by you).
…
They are acting more like children than adults with sports club and other activities taking priority over school. Failing grades and dropped classes = not taking it seriously and stagnating in prolonged, subsidized adolescence.

They can get jobs, loans, or whatever, and come up with their own way to finance school. It will likely mean more to them if they are having to fork over the money. If neither really knows what they want to do, then let them work a while and go back to school when they are older…

You can offer a soft landing place at home if they choose to leave school-- ie. stay at home and work 6 months to save rent and deposit money, etc.

Thank you. That is very much in line with my thinking.

I do not have children that age yet, but this is the plan I will offer our children when they reach college age:

–no more than 4 years of school (barring unusual extenuating circumstances)
–our funding will be the equivalent of the cost of attending our state college (so a maximum of about $20-25k in college funding per year)
–reasonable academic performance
–reasonable behavior (I’ll have to fill the details of this in at some later point)
–following house rules (curfew, chores, etc.) if they choose to live at home and go to school (we may give them some sort of financial incentive to do so, because it would be much cheaper for us)

It’s a little late, but you may wish to make up a similar list for your boys and explain to them under what circumstances you will continue to fund them. You might want to make some sort of addendum for giving them funding if they are doing unpaid or low-paid internships.

I’d be tempted to give them each a $2,000 car and as an end-of-parental-funding gift, even if you decide to cut off other funding. I wouldn’t cut them off right away without any kind of warning, but I would start the clock now and inform them. Part-time study does not merit full-time funding. People who are studying part-time can work full-time, just as people who are working part-time can study full-time.

Best wishes!

That’s very good advice, and good things to remember for those who have younger children now.

My kids are too young still for me to have dealt with these issues yet, but I know what my parents would do (and did). We were allowed to live at home, rent free, until high school graduation. After graduation, we had the choice to remain at home rent free while we worked and saved money or worked and paid for our own schooling. As long as we followed the rules of the house we could remain home rent free, but if we violated their trust or any of the rules/curfews we were given a 90 day notice.

I think that as a parent you have done the best you knew how, just as my parents did. They raised 11 of us, and most of us have turned out great, but all of us gave them problems along the way. If my kids started to have trouble I would give them the choice of moving home or losing financial support from us. You should not be paying for adult men to live their lives in any way they sit fit. They are adults and they need to support themselves. …

I dread those days coming. Right now my oldest is 15 so I still have some time left. I’m sure you have raised boys that are moral and capable of making good choices. Trust in God. Trust in them. And trust in your own parenting. I’ll pray for your family.

They are good young men. They are amazing and awesome. That’s perhaps why we’ve not put the ‘hammer’ down as hard as we might have. We didn’t expect it would get to this point. We did do the best we knew how. Sigh. That’s why I feel like a failure; my best wasn’t good enough.

Op,
I understand, we have a 19 years old that wanted to go away to college but we had him stay at home to attend the community college. It seems from your post that the older boy should probably not be living with the younger at the college town goofying off and influencing the younger not to take school seriously which resulted in the younger son to end up on probation. I would probably have the older one either find a job at home and then try and have the younger one drop the club sport and part time job, get serious and finish up and move on. Tell the older boy that if he doesn’t know what he wants to do and can’t finish school that he needs to find a full time job either at home (to build up some money to live on his own) or find a full time job else where and just live on his own. It seems like the mistake was having the boys live together at the university town where the one wasn’t going to school and could influence the other not to take it seriously.

I don’t think the older son influenced the other one in that way, not as much as you might think, anyway. The youngest IS determined to get his degree; we believe the main problem has been the club sport, lack of studying/asking for help. The oldest DOES want to have a degree, but is currently at a loss. We are working on that already.

 

[ccmcmg]

I don’t see how that would be out of line as 1ke notes. First of all, you are still their parents and secondly, you are subsidizing their existence.

The son you suspect who may depression—I would discuss options with him about getting counseling to see if there is something there. I think a lot of times depression is a mask for something else that may be going on.

That is true; depression can be a symptom, but it DOES run in my birthfamily (both sides) and myself, as a main illness. Thank you.

My advice is to continue to love your sons as much as ever, but stop supporting them. …

Go to you sons’ residence to tell them about their new circumstances. Tell your sons how much you love them and that you have every confidence that they will succeed at life. Tell them that you will be praying for them and ask them to pray for you. Tell them that you are always there for them if they need advice or a hot meal or just someone to talk to. It takes a lot of strength to serve as an emotional safety net while discontinuing your sons’ financial support, but that is what I would attempt to do. Give your sons the gift of their adulthood.

Your post was full of good advice; cut due to space restrictions (scroll up, people! ). Thank you.

I think your kids are too old for you to be paying their bills. I can see paying for tuition, but paying their board, car, and bills in their 20’s? I know people who were married, in a mortgage, and had a kid or two themselves by 23! I’d say, cut the cord already. My aunt has a good system for college tuition. She pays for As. (retroactively) She pays half the cost of Bs.

Thank you. I can’t base what my children are doing on what I was doing at their age, or others. Each person’s circumstances are different. Oh, how I want to say that “I was doing this…” or “so and so is doing this”…but I have never, and won’t, compare my children’s success or struggles to that of another. There is always someone better off and someone worse off. But you’re right; we can’t continue paying for much of what goes on. Let me be clear though: they pay for their rent, utilities, gas, a good part of their food. What they make in wages are eaten up and they have little discretionary funding. I’ve seen the checks.

What you propose is very reasonable and generous if you ask me. Of course I have been accused of being mean by others, but my son knows the value of a Dollar, and our relationship with him couldn’t be better if we wanted to.

Good Luck

Snipped for space restrictions: thank you. They have been hard workers in their lives; their employers have always been impressed with their work ethics. However, they hasn’t translated like I would hope.

(((HUGS))) to you. Being a mom is HARD!!!

Now, my opinion … you’ve raised them, now you have to let them go. Which means letting them succeed or fail on their own. As a parent it’s very, very hard to let our kids fail (by whatever definition), but we also have to give them that freedom.

So - what to do? I agree with others in that you need to withdrawal financial support from them, but I’d also agree to do so gradually.

What we have for ours is a strict rule that by 21 or end of 4 yrs of college, you need to be self-sufficient. That said, we don’t change the locks on our family home, there’s always food in the fridge, a working washer and dryer, and free showers. Children are allowed to move back in but only for a few months while working full-time and making plans to move out. For us, this allows us to communicate that we love and care about them (hence the perpetual food / water source) - but that we also respect them enough to recognize them as adults (people who make their own decisions and live with the outcomes).

And that’s how I’d approach it - point out that the current situation cannot continue indefinitely, that you’ll do “X” until such-and-such date (such as pay 6 months of car insurance) but then they will have to decide what to do about it at that point (pay the ins or do w/o a car). Let them know that you are right there ready to provide support in other ways (whatever seems reasonable to you - be it letting them move back home, providing tuition if grades are at a certain level, helping create resumes, or whatever else). But also let them know what you are no longer going to do and when you will be stopping it.

Remember at this point, you can’t tell them what to do. You can only lovingly and supportively tell them what YOU will / won’t do. And of course, prayer is definitely on the “do” list!!

Hope that helps.

Thank you. Again, good advice. I knew this was the right place to ask! We aren’t made of money and our savings is depleted for their college.

Hello,

The economic situation right now for young people does not look very well. If you do not help them fix the fear they face about their future, you will be going nowhere with them.

God Bless

True. I just don’t know how to do that, which is why I’m getting great advice from y’all.

God bless each and every one of you. We have great sons. This is just a speed bump, but we don’t want it to bottom out the car and destroy it!

 

[Cackles]

I love them almost more than life itself…

You’re life is comprised of nothing else but your husband and children. If your children were taken away, your life would be cut in half.

Remember life is always living. Everything living has to grow. If you cut your life half, you’ll have to start again and grow to a place that you are today. You’ll probably never get there. Because a mother can’t grow without their children growing with them.

 

[Auntie_A]

Good ideas on this thread.

My belief is that you can do what you want with your money. Some people help their kids and the individuals are grateful and resourceful with the help; others get lazy and feel entitled. It is good that you are questioning whether your help is effective or not. Sounds like “not”.

18 to 25 is a difficult transition. Some young adults become exceptionally vulnerable and lost as they move from the nest and become victims of predators. Some start manifesting symptoms of mental illness and know nothing about seeking help or good self care.

I like your idea of getting medical help or counseling for your sons. I hope they aren’t drinking and drugging. Read “the Mood Cure” then ask them to take the tests. The author suggests nutritional help to kick away the symptoms. It’s a good first step towards change.

You might want to seek counsel yourself, just to make sure that you are helping not enabling, and are working towards a healthier family relationship. Don’t be afraid if you are part of the problem. It’s never too late to change.

 

[HouseArrest]

Here’s what I might consider if I were you. I would have them each get full time jobs, give them the car, pay a few months rent to get them a bit ahead. Then I would have them pay all their own utilities, rent, food, clothing, etc. with their paychecks. I would then pay for part time after work courses, one or two at time, until they obtain their degree. I will take awhile, but honestly, that is how quickly they are obtaining the degree now.

This way you would still be helping, which sounds like what you want to do, and they could become independent, which sounds like what you want to happen.

 

[Xantippe]

ccmcmg said:

“They have been hard workers in their lives; their employers have always been impressed with their work ethics. However, they hasn’t translated like I would hope.”

The good news is there really isn’t a necessary relationship between “good student” and “successful adult.” As somebody was saying in another thread, the world is full of A students working for C students (I’d correct that for grade inflation these days to “the world is full of A students working for B students”).

There’s no need for panic with regard to your kids, but it is time for a course correction.

Best wishes!

 

[camillebru]

My name is Camille bruno Valdez my partner and I have been trying for a baby for over two years now, We were going to a fertility clinic for about 5 months before somebody told us to contact this spell caster who is so powerful, We contacted him at this email; arewaspecialisttemple@yahoo.com, for him to help us, then we told him our problem, he told us that we will either conceive in February 2014 or March 2014,but after two years of trying we were at a point where we were willing to try anything. And I’m glad we came to Dr Dahiru, Because his pregnancy spell cast put us at ease, and I honestly believe him, and his gods really helped us as well, I am thankful for all he has done. contact him via email: arewaspecialisttemple@yahoo.com if you are trying to get a baby or want your lover back. he has powers to do it, he has done mine