Help Please

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mgull

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I’ve been having a discussion with an evangelical at work, it is cordial though, both of us have been very respectful towards each other’s beliefs. I’ve been into apologetics for 5 plus years now, but in this past year I haven’t engaged many non catholics and have grown lax in the study of defending my Faith. Here’s my question, this guy wants to use only Scripture to verify anything about the Faith, how do I explain to him Biblically that this just isn’t how it’s done? For example, he wants to know where Mary’s sinlessness is in the Bible, and where she is assumed into Heaven, and while I’ve tried to show him where the Bible alludes to these teachings, he says that’s not what it says.

I’ve tried to show him verses, like 1 Tim 3:14, that explain the Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth, but he says that the Church can make this claim because it has the Bible and everything resorts back to Scripture. I’ve told him there are many churches and many claim to have the truth with the Bible’s support, but he insists that a good Bible believing church is what you need to look for.

A few things I’ll let you in on, 1) He says the King James Version is the only acceptable English version of the Bible. 2) He has said to me that no matter what he’ll never become catholic, and even though he started this and I’m just defending my Faith, am I wasting my time with him? Thanks, sorry so long.
 
mgull said:
I’ve been having a discussion with an evangelical at work, it is cordial though, both of us have been very respectful towards each other’s beliefs. I’ve been into apologetics for 5 plus years now, but in this past year I haven’t engaged many non catholics and have grown lax in the study of defending my Faith. Here’s my question, this guy wants to use only Scripture to verify anything about the Faith, how do I explain to him Biblically that this just isn’t how it’s done? For example, he wants to know where Mary’s sinlessness is in the Bible, and where she is assumed into Heaven, and while I’ve tried to show him where the Bible alludes to these teachings, he says that’s not what it says.

I’ve tried to show him verses, like 1 Tim 3:14, that explain the Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth, but he says that the Church can make this claim because it has the Bible and everything resorts back to Scripture. I’ve told him there are many churches and many claim to have the truth with the Bible’s support, but he insists that a good Bible believing church is what you need to look for.

A few things I’ll let you in on, 1) He says the King James Version is the only acceptable English version of the Bible. 2) He has said to me that no matter what he’ll never become catholic, and even though he started this and I’m just defending my Faith, am I wasting my time with him? Thanks, sorry so long.
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  • You could ask him who laid hands on his pastor to authorize him to shepherd a church.
  • Ask him why God would allow the “only acceptable English version of the Bible” to be the one named after a notorious sodomite?
  • Ask him what the Bible says about people who promote heresy and why he keeps doing so anyway.
 
KJV is the only acceptable version, eh? So for the majority of Christian history, the majority of Christians have been using unauthorized versions! Talk about strange belief!

As for the Bible being the only source of all things, ask him how he knows what books make up the Bible. Nowhere does the Bible define itself 🙂
 
Lubomyr said:
  • You could ask him who laid hands on his pastor to authorize him to shepherd a church.
  • Ask him why God would allow the “only acceptable English version of the Bible” to be the one named after a notorious sodomite?
  • Ask him what the Bible says about people who promote heresy and why he keeps doing so anyway.
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You just reminded me of something else he said. When we were talking about confessing sins to a priest and where it is Biblically, I told him that Jesus gave his apostles the authority to do this and he said that there are no apostles alive today because only people who have seen Jesus can be an apostle, therefore apostolic succession doesn’t exist. Can you tell me if that is Biblical and where i can find it, i’ve noticed he has been taking many verses out of context.
 
Tomek said:
KJV is the only acceptable version, eh? So for the majority of Christian history, the majority of Christians have been using unauthorized versions! Talk about strange belief!

As for the Bible being the only source of all things, ask him how he knows what books make up the Bible. Nowhere does the Bible define itself 🙂
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Let me clarify, he said it’s the only acceptable “english” version.

As far as the canon, I haven’t used that defense yet so thanks, i’ll try it.

One thing I’ve noticed, and I need to start doing, is pinning him down and let him talk more, I feel like I spend sooo much time trying to defend all catholic teaching and he doesn’t have to answer to his beliefs. It’s amazing how when debating a non catholic how many topics you can cover in 20 minutes, it can be very overwhelming. Thanks for the reply.
 
The most important way to help him is through prayer. Maybe give or loan some good books, also, like by Scott Hahn? But prayer is most important. Don’t get worked up and lose your own peace of soul.
 
Stellaeres said:
The most important way to help him is through prayer. Maybe give or loan some good books, also, like by Scott Hahn? But prayer is most important. Don’t get worked up and lose your own peace of soul.
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You know, this has been the most peaceful convo with a non catholic i’ve ever had, but when he said that he’d never become catholic really just makes me think is this a waste of time. It’s like, he’s gonna believe what he believes and i’m gonna believe what i believe.
 
Well, for starters you could ask him how Christianity got along for nearly 400 without a bible. After that you could ask him what he knows about the Codex Sinaiitcus and Codex Vaticanus and when they were compiled as compared to the King James version.

My father-in-law was beside himself when he discovered that the King James wasn’t all he thought it was.
 
Wildgraywolf said:
Well, for starters **you could ask him how Christianity got along for nearly 400 without a bible. **After that you could ask him what he knows about the Codex Sinaiitcus and Codex Vaticanus and when they were compiled as compared to the King James version.

My father-in-law was beside himself when he discovered that the King James wasn’t all he thought it was.
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I have, he says the Churches, eg Phillipi or Ephesus, had scrolls and people would go there to reference Scripture.

I am intrigued about how your father-in-law was convinced of the error of the King James Bible.
 
Well, as someone mentioned above,
the King “James” Authorized Version was “authorized”
by a wantonly promiscuous practicing unrepentant homosexual,
so that ought to be enough to raise his fundamentalist eyebrows.

It’s actually a lovely bible, for the most part,
but the only realiable version? Oh, PLEASE !!

And if he says that no matter what, he’ll never become a Catholic,
well, many people say that, and then later on become Catholic.
So pray the Chaplet of Divine Mercy, everyday, for his conversion.

God bless you,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
I am reading the best book at the moment that explains in details information about the immaculate conception, the book is called “Mariology”, (A guide for Priests, Deacons, Seminarians and Consecrated persons.) Its a combination of authors lots of footnotes, though at the bottom of the book on the front cover it says “Foreword by Archbishop Raymond L.Burke.”

Basically here goes, :

The “Woman " of the Protoevangelium: Gen 3:15, In the book the translation says " I will put enmity between you and the woman , and between your seed and her seed; she [ipsa] shall crush your head.” I looked it up in the RSV and it said he shall crush the serpants head, BUT, in the footnotes on the next page its says:"There is a need , indeed an obligation once again to return to the adoption of the feminine version which has presided over the Old Testament biblical study from the days of Philo and Josephus Flavius, ie., from the first century after Christ… then it goes on to explain how the original text in Hebrew saying “the frequent exchange of gender in Hebrew: the masculine being used in place of the feminine and vice versa, especially when there is present some cause or mystery, as is the case here.” (if that makes sense)

With regards to the history of the Church , its not all about the Bible, they just need to get any book about Christian History that talks about the Reformation and the Break off of the Orthodox Church etc. Its factual information. Christ established the first Church , which according to history is the Catholic Church.
 
mgull said:
You just reminded me of something else he said. When we were talking about confessing sins to a priest and where it is Biblically, I told him that Jesus gave his apostles the authority to do this and he said that there are no apostles alive today because only people who have seen Jesus can be an apostle, therefore apostolic succession doesn’t exist. Can you tell me if that is Biblical and where i can find it, i’ve noticed he has been taking many verses out of context.
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  1. *]Tell him it’s right after the verse that says it’s okay to pray directly to the Holy Spirit.
    *]If he can’t find it, tell him it may be missing from his Bible, because you heard some people ripped out portions of the Bible 500 years ago since those sections contradicted their opinions.
    *]If he insists it’s not in his Bible and never was to begin with, then ask him why he prays to the Holy Spirit, since if it’s not in his Bible he really shouldn’t be going beyond what is written (1 Corinthians 4:6).
    *]If he says he doesn’t pray to the Holy Spirit, then ask him why he denies that the Holy Spirit is God.
    *]If he insists the Holy Spirit is God (cf. Acts 5:3-4), ask him why he doesn’t pray to God.
    *]If he insists that the Holy Spirit is God but the scriptures never say the apostles prayed directly to him, ask him why he follows that tradition of men, since avoiding praying to the Holy Spirit implicitly contradicts a scriptural truth.
    *]If he insists he’s not denying scriptural truth but just following the examples of the apostles and their followers, tell him that in confession you’re just following the example of the apostles and their followers.
    *]If he objects that confessing your sins directly to a priest isn’t in the Bible, smile weakly and change the subject.
 
Thank you everyone for your answers, I greatly appreciate it. God’s Grace to you all.
 
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