Help, Please

[1987]

I have recently started dating a lovely young Catholic lady. She and I started getting pretty serious early into the relationship, and of course had to have the “what have you done with other people,” talk.

I had a serious problem with masturbation for a few years, often times doing it 5-7 times a week, but when it comes to doing things with other people, I had only kissed the opposite sex.

She, on the other hand, has had three serious boyfriends. All of her boyfriends before me tried to pressure her into having sex. While she has not had sex, she has done some other things. When she was in high school, she started performing oral sex with her boyfriend, but stopped quickly into it, realizing how wrong it is. She also told me that sometimes when her old boyfriends would put their hands down her pants, she wouldn’t remove them immediately. She has fallen asleep without her shirt on with her boyfriends, and has also had them try and walk in on her in the shower. All of her boyfriends were the instigators in every situation, but it still bothers me that these events happened.

For a few months, I didn’t think anything about it. But lately, it has been haunting me.

She says that she’d take it back a million times if she could. She feels so awful about it now, and says that before meeting me, she had already come to the realization of how bad it was. She is the most honest person I have ever met. She told me everything that I have mentioned without hesitation, not even two months into the relationship. She says that I truly make her want to be a better person. She is a great person, but has had not so great of a past.

The main thing I battle with is whether or not I am truly supposed to be with her. We both mutually prayed that the other one would talk to the other. Everything happened so perfectly for us to meet, and everything has gone perfect in our relationship up until this point. For about a month, we’d stay over at each other’s apartment, but when I say we slept together, I mean just that. But, we both felt so bad about it, and have stopped doing it since. The only thing we have done is kiss.

I just really want to do what God wants me to do in this situation, and am having a really tough time with it. We have both started praying about it together. We have also been to confession recently, because we understand the severity of our sins.

I try and justify everything with Matthew 7:2 and Matthew 18:22, and just when I think it is getting better, I just picture someone taking advantage of her.

I would really appreciate everyone’s opinion and comments on the situation.

 

[1ke]

My opinion is that you should never again have a “what you have done with other people” talk with her or any other woman. To list out things in a specific and graphic manner as you have done has produced the results we see here. It was, IMHO, a huge mistake and should not be repeated.

It is in the past, and you need to leave it there. talking about it in such specific terms means you can never leave it in the past because now it is in your head and you cannot un-know it.

So, unfortunately it may color your relationship to a point that you personally feel you cannot continue. If this turns out to be the case, that is quite sad but let it be a lesson on what not to do next time.

Do not discuss items of an intimate nature, including masterbation, with a girlfriend. She is not your confessor.

 

[PeterJohn]

I disagree with 1KE

These talks are normal and lead to intimacy. You need to just make peace with it any way you can. It’s that simple good luck.

 

[Trishie]

I agree that we are not each others’ priest.
If anyone has sinned in the past, they should take it to Confession
Nor should unmarried people, especially those who are aware that they have weakness in giving in to occasions of sin/putting others into occasions of sin, sleep together in each others’ beds.
If a person puts themselves, and other persons, in occasions of sin, they are sinning.

May God in His goodness and mercy heal all that needs healing, and sanctify the relationships that we have in gift and in trust.

It is not the case that we share absolutely everything about our past or we would never have any time for anything else in our present.
If we confess all our sins of relationship. to each other, including of all other kinds of sins against charity, one of which is sexual, then we would never have time for anything else.

You may perhaps feel that your confession was milder, but if my boyfriend confessed to me he’d masturbated as often as you say, it would creep me out. It’s a thought I also would find repellant…So long as he left that behind and didn’t continue in that, and had been to Confession with a firm choice for amendment I wouldn’t want to know. She has images to overcome also. So you need to forgive each other and move on, living chastely until marriage, or part.

 

[underacloud]

Ah, the talk. How many boyfriends have you had? What have you done with them? Curiosity gets the better of us and most of us have this talk to some degree.

I agree somewhat with 1ke that such talks can create problems. But I’d also suggest that they are needed, to some degree. If you are discerning marriage with someone, these are relevant issues to consider. Their past behaviour in these matters is very relevant. To marry someone without knowing such details is naive at best. The trick is to discuss and ascertain the relevant details, and accept them or not:

If a person’s past behaviours are not an impedement for you to marry them, then you forget about them (as best you can) and move on afresh.

If you cannot deal with a person’s past, that’s your choice and you move on.

What you can’t do is sit in between…continuing a relationship while holding on to resentment and jealousy. It’s unfair to the other person, and ultimately destructive to both. I’m not saying you won’t feel jealousy or that forgetting is easy (it is not), but I am saying that you can choose a certain path and follow it as best you can. You may feel some jealoursy, but you don’t let that overcome you and you don’t hold it over the other person.

So you need to make this choice. It may take some time for you to work through your thoughts, but at some point, and quite soon, you need to decide that her past is OK and that you will put it behind you, or that it’s not and you both move on.

 

[Allegra]

I disagree that a couple should not have “that talk”. “That talk” is quite important when people are discerning marriage, though it is probably for the best if it isn’t as specific and graphic as you decribed. It’s also a little strange that you had it so early on in your relationship, but what’s done is done. It sounds as if you have both done things you aren’t proud of and you have confessed and resolved not to do those things anymore. Honestly, I don’t see what is preventing you from moving forward but if this is bothering you so much, it might be time to consider the possibility that you aren’t ready for such an intimate relationship at this time. It does sound like you jumped into things a little early on.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

My opinion is that you should never again have a “what you have done with other people” talk with her or any other woman. To list out things in a specific and graphic manner as you have done has produced the results we see here. It was, IMHO, a huge mistake and should not be repeated.

It is in the past, and you need to leave it there. talking about it in such specific terms means you can never leave it in the past because now it is in your head and you cannot un-know it.

So, unfortunately it may color your relationship to a point that you personally feel you cannot continue. If this turns out to be the case, that is quite sad but let it be a lesson on what not to do next time.

Do not discuss items of an intimate nature, including masterbation, with a girlfriend. She is not your confessor.

I agree with 1ke. It is fine to discuss IN GENERAL TERMS, such as, “No, I am not a virgin,” or, “Yes, I have had other sexual experiences, which I regret.” But to get into this minute detail and exposing every little thing one has done…:dts::nope:

Men are especially visual and you can see the effect it has had on the OP - he can’t get the images out of his mind. This is also a factor in adultery - the husband will pester his wife to tell him details and then he can’t stand the images he has and they divorce.

I would not have this discussion unless I were pretty certain of the person as a good candidate for marriage. By then, I would already know his likely response, and I could probably guess about his experience level too.

And again, in general terms only, never the Who-What-When-Where type of factual recitation. That kind of honesty is best in the confessional.

 

[underacloud]

I agree with 1ke. It is fine to discuss IN GENERAL TERMS, such as, “No, I am not a virgin,” or, “Yes, I have had other sexual experiences, which I regret.” But to get into this minute detail and exposing every little thing one has done…:dts::nope:

Men are especially visual and you can see the effect it has had on the OP - he can’t get the images out of his mind. This is also a factor in adultery - the husband will pester his wife to tell him details and then he can’t stand the images he has and they divorce.

Do you think not having details makes it better? A man’s imagination can run wild, and the scernarios playing in the mind can be far worse than the reality. When people engage in sexual activity outside of marriage, this jealousy is inneviatable. The OP needs to determine whether they are prepared to continue or not, but they are entitled to know.

I would not have this discussion unless I were pretty certain of the person as a good candidate for marriage. By then, I would already know his likely response, and I could probably guess about his experience level too.

I think this conversation is not out of place reasonably early. You don’t want to fall in love with someone and *then *find out that their past is too much for you to handle.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Do you think not having details makes it better? A man’s imagination can run wild, and the scenarios playing in the mind can be far worse than the reality. When people engage in sexual activity outside of marriage, this jealousy is inevitable. The OP needs to determine whether they are prepared to continue or not, but they are entitled to know.

I think this conversation is not out of place reasonably early. You don’t want to fall in love with someone and *then *find out that their past is too much for you to handle.

We’ll agree to disagree. Yes, I think having details makes it worse, which is what I stated in my last post. I think these 2 young people may have meant well, but they had this detailed discussion for no purpose as they aren’t discerning marriage, and now it’s disturbing him.

Entitled to know? No. Only my confessor and God know everything I have done. I would never tell my husband everything. He has no need to know and there is no “entitlement” to know the details of my sexual past. I don’t know his, either, and I don’t want to know. Some things belong in the confessional.

 

[underacloud]

We’ll agree to disagree. Yes, I think having details makes it worse, which is what I stated in my last post. I think these 2 young people may have meant well, but they had this detailed discussion for no purpose as they aren’t discerning marriage, and now it’s disturbing him.

The whole dating process is (or should be) a means of discerning marriage, so at some point a conversation is appropriate. Perhaps their conversation went too far…or perhaps the OP simply can’t deal with what he now knows.

Perhaps details make it worse for some people, but for many men a lack of details is very much worse. The OP needs to work this out for himself, and whether a lack of details or too many details is a worse cross to bear.

Entitled to know? No. Only my confessor and God know everything I have done. I would never tell my husband everything. He has no need to know and there is no “entitlement” to know the details of my sexual past. I don’t know his, either, and I don’t want to know. Some things belong in the confessional.

People aren’t entitled to know everything, but details of their potential spouse’s sexual past are relevant to the decision to marry. You and you husband may have chosen not to get into such details, but many people feel it is important and want to have such a discussion. I certainly did with my now wife.

If you are dating someone (and in a round about way, on some level, discerning marriage) and you decline to discuss your sexual past, that’s your perogative. It’s also then your date’s perogative to discontinue dating you.

 

[Pink_Lemonade]

I agree with the posters who said you’ve shared too much with each other.

I think you need to stop fixating on what she did in her past, and focus more on yours. What she did is over and done, and she regrets it. But you need to think about what you revealed to her, as well. She should be concerned about someone who has in the past had such an addiction. It is great if you have gotten over that, but do not make the mistake of thinking that her past is somehow “worse” than yours. It might be more difficult for you to deal with, because of the details she unfortunately provided you, but you will need to decide whether you can live with that or not. And if you decide you can, do not hold it against her- remember that you have a past of your own as well.

 

[The_Bucket]

I guess I fall in between on this matter. I wholeheartedly agree that listing out sexual history, unless for some medical reason, is totally unnecessary and in many cases harmful. If you’re talking about addiction history, however, I think that’s not only advisable but needed. Drug problem, alcohol problem or sex addiction… these are things that don’t really ever go away. Not at least the propensity for these problems anyway. People need to know what they’re potentially getting into if you’re a recovering or recovered addict.

Going into every detail about everything in the way that’s happened here, can only be destructive though.

 

[FullOfThought]

You need to stop judging her. The fact that she was so honest with you and told you the complete truth, in my opinion, speaks more to her comfort level with you, honest repentence, and shows a wonderful quality. Imagine if she had kept this from you your whole lives together?

You both made mistakes, as has everyone, this gives you an amazing opportunity to grow towards God together, hand in hand.

Good luck!!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I would disagree with you in part, I think within reason telling someone you are dating seriously that you had sexual contact or very close personal contact several times would be appropriate. **But getting into detail about how a man put his hands down her pants not sure why that is valuable information, and I disagree that someone you are dating (even seriously) is entitled to know. **

We are not obligated to reveal all of our sins to others, even sexual sins. I would agree talking about virginity is hugely important or possible sexually transmitted diseases but other then that I would not have revealed such detail about contact or masturbation either.

To the original poster, if you feel serious about her and think you may be thinking of marriage you are right to pray. When you feel evil or jealous thoughts coming to you simply say the name “Jesus…Jesus…Jesus” over and over that may help the thoughts go away. God bless you on your journey.

Exactly. Our society has been stressing “honesty” to a point that goes beyond anything reasonable. This girl should have had a modicum of modesty about her sins as well. This young man does not need to have exact information about each and every time she has sinned. Did he then recount to her every episode of masturbation he indulged in, complete with what he fantasized about? I hope not!

Please do not suggest that I am recommending lying to your future spouse about your sexual past. That is definitely not what I recommend. But these young people have barely started dating, and now they are over their heads with information he, at least, cannot handle. There is a time and a place for everything. And the time and place for documenting every sin and its degree is in the confessional, in front of the priest/God.

 

[PaulinVA]

Privacy and decorum are different from generation to generation. The present “young people” post everything on blogs and social media sites. This talk might not seem all that unusual to them.

But, it’s a mine field. What good comes out of it? Generalities are fine. Specifics are not needed and are sort of voyeuristic. You love each other now. The past doesn’t matter. And, the older you get the more earth shattering the “talk” has the potential to be, anyway.

 

[styrgwillidar]

You shouldn’t have had the talk if you couldn’t handle it. And you can’t.

• Sorry, you’re a human, she’s a human. You both have faults and have both made mistakes.

You referred to her as a ‘lovely Catholic lady’-- all of these experiences are part of what have made her who she is today. Some of our most formative experiences come from mistakes or errors we’ve made in the past. If you like her, you need to accept that those things that happened contributed to her being the woman she is today. If you like that woman, well, you’ll have to appreciate person she is today and acknowledge she may have been far different without that past history.

Now, IHMO, the talk is only relevant in terms of assessing whether you’re compatible now and into the future. Not judging the other person for their past. As another said, the talk isn’t about you evaluating the other person per se, it’s about assessing your own values against theirs, not about what they did in the past but about how their view of their past and actions indicate what they’ll do in the future. And do the values they hold and likely actions you think they’ll take in the future make you a good match.

There are far more important things about people than whether they committed a sexual sin or sins in the past. Are they loyal? Do they believe in monogamy? Are they trustworthy? Supportive? Willing to be supported? The way they talk about their past can help you understand who they are today. The person they will be with you. And that is what important