Help! Priest making ad libs

[GoGoDiego]

I attended the Sunday Mass in my uncle’s parish today. The priest (who is a foreigner and a Marian Father) made up his own words for the Preface and Postcommunion. And during the consecration of the wine, he said: “for the remission of sins” instead of the “for the forgiveness of sins.” Is the Mass I attended a valid Mass?

 

[Billy112]

…the only way that a Mass could be invalid is if the words are consecration were so greatly changed as to change the plain meaning of the words.

Here’s the full Ask an Apologist article- this should help

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=1014155

 

[Crusaderbear]

No ad libs, he just is using the older terminology. It pays to have a deeper grasp of language when attending mass, or when priests from other areas attend and say your mass. I’ve heard remission in many masses, especially in bilingual communities and 'back in the day…" . I know it can be a little disheartening to people, but think about it, do you really think a ordained clergyman will risk his immortal soul to deliberately invalidate a mass? More importantly, do you think he would do so by slipping in a few different words to secretly ‘catch’ you? As the song goes, “Oh, Lord, His intentions were good…”

 

[jinglebelle]

No ad libs, he just is using the older terminology. It pays to have a deeper grasp of language when attending mass, or when priests from other areas attend and say your mass. I’ve heard remission in many masses, especially in bilingual communities and 'back in the day…" . I know it can be a little disheartening to people, but think about it, do you really think a ordained clergyman will risk his immortal soul to deliberately invalidate a mass? More importantly, do you think he would do so by slipping in a few different words to secretly ‘catch’ you? As the song goes, “Oh, Lord, His intentions were good…”

Oh ditto, in my generation pre Vatican something it would be scorchio. A priest on the altar is still inviolate if no where else.If there are only 100 harvests left,there are bigger things to worry about.

 

[ThundersnowIV]

I attended the Sunday Mass in my uncle’s parish today. The priest (who is a foreigner and a Marian Father) made up his own words for the Preface and Postcommunion. And during the consecration of the wine, he said: “for the remission of sins” instead of the “for the forgiveness of sins.” Is the Mass I attended a valid Mass?

Perhaps the word remission is what he is accustomed to in the language he usually says Mass in. I don’t see a problem at all. Remember that the Mass in English is not a translation…but the equivalent from original Latin or other language.

 

[peter26]

You only need to worry about validity if the essential words of institution are changed. As long as he says “This is my body” and “This is my blood”, there is nothing to worry about.

 

[OraLabora]

Perhaps the word remission is what he is accustomed to in the language he usually says Mass in. I don’t see a problem at all. Remember that the Mass in English is not a translation…but the equivalent from original Latin or other language.

It is indeed "rémission"in French. I would cut a foreign priest, offering Mass in other than his mother tongue, considerable slack. Instead, walk up to him and say “thank you Father, for filling in for Fr. X, and welcome to our parish”, and invite him to coffee hour, if there is one.

 

[poche]

It sounds like the mass was valid but illicit.
I would recommend that we follow the advice of Father Gobi in these cases.
Love the priest.
Pray for him.
Don’t pay attention to his silliness.

 

[NPC]

I take the points that others have made, namely that the priest in question is a foreigner, and that the Mass was valid as long as he said the essential words “This is my Body…This is my Blood”. However, I would make the following observations. Firstly, a foreign priest is still presumably reading from the Roman Missal, in which case it is strange that he would add the word “remission” or improvise a preface or post-Communion prayer. In fact, surely it would be more difficult as a foreigner to ad lib rather than merely follow what the Church has approved in the Roman Missal. I’m not saying that you should come down heavy-handed with this priest, but I don’t see how one can “accidentally” improvise a preface if one is reading from the missal. Sacrosanctum Concilium, for example, is very clear that “…no other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority” (SC22). In addition, the more recent document, Redemptionis Sacramentum states:

“The reprobated practice by which Priests, Deacons or the faithful here and there alter or vary at will the texts of the Sacred Liturgy that they are charged to pronounce, must cease. For in doing thus, they render the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy unstable, and not infrequently distort the authentic meaning of the Liturgy” (RS59).

While the Mass was indeed valid, I think we should be concerned that Catholics feel they have to ask whether a certain Mass was valid or not when the liturgy is rendered unstable by priests altering parts at will.

 

[pensmama87]

I take the points that others have made, namely that the priest in question is a foreigner, and that the Mass was valid as long as he said the essential words “This is my Body…This is my Blood”. However, I would make the following observations. **Firstly, a foreign priest is still presumably reading from the Roman Missal, in which case it is strange that he would add the word “remission” or improvise a preface or post-Communion prayer. In fact, surely it would be more difficult as a foreigner to ad lib rather than merely follow what the Church has approved in the Roman Missal. I’m not saying that you should come down heavy-handed with this priest, but I don’t see how one can “accidentally” improvise a preface if one is reading from the missal. **Sacrosanctum Concilium, for example, is very clear that “…no other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority” (SC22). In addition, the more recent document, Redemptionis Sacramentum states:

“The reprobated practice by which Priests, Deacons or the faithful here and there alter or vary at will the texts of the Sacred Liturgy that they are charged to pronounce, must cease. For in doing thus, they render the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy unstable, and not infrequently distort the authentic meaning of the Liturgy” (RS59).

While the Mass was indeed valid, I think we should be concerned that Catholics feel they have to ask whether a certain Mass was valid or not when the liturgy is rendered unstable by priests altering parts at will.

Obviously, I’m not a priest.

But, I am a parent. I read many books to my children. Sometimes on repeat. Even if I have the book memorized, even if I’m staring right at the words as I’m saying them, for the 1000th time, I’ll make a mistake every now and then. And we’re talking about pages without much text on them, in my native language.

Making a mistake while reading aloud is the easiest thing to do in the world. Why do you think so many people dread it in other contexts?

 

[NPC]

Obviously, I’m not a priest.

But, I am a parent. I read many books to my children. Sometimes on repeat. Even if I have the book memorized, even if I’m staring right at the words as I’m saying them, for the 1000th time, I’ll make a mistake every now and then. And we’re talking about pages without much text on them, in my native language.

Making a mistake while reading aloud is the easiest thing to do in the world. Why do you think so many people dread it in other contexts?

Mistakes happen - absolutely… Even I make mistakes!! I’m not disputing that a priest, like the rest of us, can make a mistake (or that a priest should be allowed to make a mistake!). I take your point about reading something to your children for the 1000th time. However, the OP mentions the priest improvising the preface and the post-Communion prayer - if that is the case, I find it difficult to see that it’s merely a matter of glossing over a word or two.

In any case, I think your point highlights the importance of taking impeccable care with the sacred liturgy. I know mistakes will still happen from time to time, but the Holy Mass is the Church’s perfect act of worship offered to God, and as such, the Missal, which has been given to us by the Church, should be given special attention, care and reverence for what is being said or done via the rubrics. I would reiterate my earlier point, however, that I’m not suggesting that the OP come down heavy-handed on the priest in question. We can certainly acknowledge mistakes, but we also need to encourage our priests!

 

[pensmama87]

Mistakes happen - absolutely… Even I make mistakes!! I’m not disputing that a priest, like the rest of us, can make a mistake (or that a priest should be allowed to make a mistake!). I take your point about reading something to your children for the 1000th time. However, the OP mentions the priest improvising the preface and the post-Communion prayer - if that is the case, I find it difficult to see that it’s merely a matter of glossing over a word or two.

In any case, I think your point highlights the importance of taking impeccable care with the sacred liturgy. I know mistakes will still happen from time to time, but the Holy Mass is the Church’s perfect act of worship offered to God, and as such, the Missal, which has been given to us by the Church, should be given special attention, care and reverence for what is being said or done via the rubrics. I would reiterate my earlier point, however, that I’m not suggesting that the OP come down heavy-handed on the priest in question. We can certainly acknowledge mistakes, but we also need to encourage our priests!

No, but he may have lost his place and tried to smooth it over as much as possible, and not recall perfectly from memory. This was on one occasion with a non native speaker of English. That may be “improvising,” but there’s lots of reasons this can happen that don’t necessarily say anything about the priest other than that he’s human.

It bugs me that the go-to suggestion sometimes seems to be “priests don’t care enough about doing Mass right.” How on earth do we get that from the OP?

 

[Faith1960]

.If there are only 100 harvests left,there are bigger things to worry about.

What does that mean?

 

[NPC]

It bugs me that the go-to suggestion sometimes seems to be “priests don’t care enough about doing Mass right.” How on earth do we get that from the OP?

Absolutely agreed - and I would never dare presume that a priest doesn’t “care enough about doing Mass right”. As we have both said, priests - like the rest of us - make mistakes. However, to say, as I did earlier, that this can serve to highlight the importance of paying special attention to the text and rubrics is not to pass judgement on the priest in question and how much he cares about “doing Mass right”.

But, thank you, Pensmama - I do take your points.

 

[DeniseNY]

It sounds like the mass was valid but illicit.
I would recommend that we follow the advice of Father Gobi in these cases.
Love the priest.
Pray for him.
Don’t pay attention to his silliness.

It does not sound illicit at all. See posts #5 and #7.

And I think it’s most uncharitable to call this “silliness” when it was more than likely a language issue.

 

[Crusaderbear]

It does not sound illicit at all. See posts #5 and #7.

And I think it’s most uncharitable to call this “silliness” when it was more than likely a language issue.

Concur - judge not…

 

[Rosebud77]

reminded of two things… We had a Polish priest at the Cathedral here who used to greet communicants with “The BOD of Christ”… we knew what he meant,

And my first St Patrick;s Day in Ireland, the young priest was of course in Irish, he suddenly stopped, turned to us, beamed and said, “I am not doing badly, am I?” he was not an Irish speaker and was indeed doing very well…

A little humanity?