You came to the right place. You will learn a great deal here. There is a thread running right now on salvation by works. There are also a lot of good ones in the archives you can find by searching with words on your topics. The library here is also very good.
Not much difference, really. Most of it is misinformation about Catholicism. I recommend this document.
No, Catholics do not agree with the second half of this statement. It is not consistent with the Apostolic Teaching. Grace “happens” to us, but our response to it is up to us. We are to repent, believe, be baptized and follow His commandments. This does not just “happen” to us. We are to make every effort. Salvation is a gift, but we are expected to receive it, open it, and care for it properly. Gifts can be refuse, set aside, and lost.
You have been grossly misinformed about the CAtholic faith, Vimy. If you reallly want to have some integrity, you will investigate these claims to determine if they are true, or perhaps if you misunderstood them, as you appear to have done.
I think it is very important that you stop pandering these falsehoods, Vimy. It is a violation of the commandment to bear false witness against your neighbor.
Fortunately, we can rely on the Teaching of Jesus for such things, therefore, we do not have to be concerned about your opinion.
It is a Calvanist heresy. This is not taught by the Catholic Church. If the priest said what was reported, then she misunderstood what she was told.
No, Vimy, the Church does not teach this. If this is what you were led to believe,then whoever taught it to you either did not know any better or was also misled.
This is not a doctrine of the Church. I could see why such misinformation would cause struggling. It seems that you need some more reliable sources for your information.
It is not up to you to decide what is fair, it is up to God.
People know who accept Jesus as God, and believe what He said.
Well, you appear to have returned prematurily. A properly formed conscience is in conformity with the doctrines of the faith. You do have to accept all the Church teachings. If you conscience has difficulty, you submit yourself in faith, and pray and study for understanding. A properly formed conscience is never contrary to the doctrine.
Because He desires all to be saved, and no one can be saved apartfrom His grace, so He pours it out on everyone. God gave the Ark of the Covenant to Israel, but there were very specific instructions on how to maintain this great gift. When they disobeyed, people died, and eventually, the gift was lost.
This is a false statement. There is no contradiction between the grace that saves,and the grace that produces good works in us. If we had to do nothing,the Apostle would not command "work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for God is at work in you to will and to do His good pleasure.
Focusing on the here and now is great. It should not be done to the exclusion of right doctrine, though.
Some people on here have been able to answer questions that I could not get elsewhere. I probably have misunderstood many things.
This is very insightful.
Hi friend,
Thank you for your responses. I guess I still feel as though I dont know what to say myself when someone says this things. I dont know if I should just nod, or add on what the Church believes? What do you do?This statement emanates from the Calvanistic heresies. The error comes from a warped perspective on the understanding of original sin. It is true that we are legally declared justified by God’s grace. However, the process of cleansing us from sins (sanctification) is not always completed at the time of our death. He does not impute our sins to us, becuase of the perfect sacrifice of His son. However, this does not make the effects of the sins vanish. Cleansing and healing is still necessary. This is why only the saved will be in purgatory.
Jesus was clear that there are degrees of sin. This is also found in Jewish teaching,and salvation comes from the Jews.
I have learned a great deal about this since I came to CAF, and have had occasion to pose these questions. The basic problem is that people are separated from the Apostolic Tradition. They attempt to reconstruct what the Apostles believed and taught by extrapolating it from scripture. This causes all kinds of errors. One of these errors is that Jesus’ sacrifice paid for all the sins that are past, present, and future. Since He paid for them all, there is no longer any need to concern oneself with them. Paying attention to sin is considered being “stuck with a sin issue”. On the contrary, it is thought that repentance means we turn from unbelief to belief. I even had one Reformed Evangelical tell me that the Bible does not say we need to repent of our sins! This is a very gross departure from the Apostolic Faith. But, one must keep in mind that modern Evangelicals never received the Apostolic faith. They are born of 500 years of cumulating heresies and don’t even know that there is something different.
The other major problem we encounter when discussing “saved” with evangelicals is that many of them have fallen into the heresy of OSAS (once saved, always saved). They were taught that praying the “sinners prayer” saves them, and that nothing they can ever do will cause them to lose it. This perspective is not consistent with the Apostolic Teaching.
I cannot see what it is about this statement that is not consistent with Catholic teaching, except that we must choose to participate in the saving work of Christ, in order for us to benefit from it.
Yes, what we do matters, and it matters because it is a reflection of our faith (or lack of it) and grace working in us. We know the tree by it’s fruits, and a bad tree bears bad fruit. As saved person does not persist in a life of sin because it is inconsistent with one’s identity.
I guess I have. When I was first instructed I was told the right doctrine. Later I started getting confused. I met very liberal priests and brothers and they would say things contrary to official doctrine.
[/QUOTE]Thank you. But I think I’m more small ‘c’ catholic. Catholic not Roman Catholic, hope that makes sense.[/QUOt
Friend very likely you’re soul is at risk. There will be NO, zip, Zerro parttime catholics in heaven! Not a one! If you don’t know what this means, please seek a clairification.Sorry , didn’t read all of your posts, Sort of get you now,still somewhatthough. Carlan:blush:
*** Luke 17: *** 1" And he said to his disciples, “Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung round his neck and he were cast into the sea, than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin. Take heed to yourselves; if your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him; and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, and says, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him.”
In case you hadn’t noticed this is a CATHOLIC FORUM, not a “small catholic” forum. People comming here have a right to expect proper Catholic Church teaching.
I do thank you for pointing out that you’re not a practicing Catholic.
May God grant you wisdom and peace friend.
Pat
I understand a lot more things than I did when I got here!
I usually ask them why they think that. I generally only use scripture in discussions of this kind with evangelicals, because they don’t accept any other sources. Then I will ask them to reconcile scriptures that seem to state the opposite of what they believe. In your case, I would recommend that you just bring the comments here for a while, and cut your teeth on the threads.
NOT quoting guanophore!
A lot of us were instructed poorly, or downright wrongly. There is a whole generation of Catholics who never were encouraged to read the Bible!
This site has encouraged me to take another look RCC doctrine again. I had pretty much given up on it, partly because of this mistake I’d made. Thanks for the tips.A lot of us were instructed poorly, or downright wrongly. There is a whole generation of Catholics who never were encouraged to read the Bible!
Anyway, you came to the right place, but you might want to consider framing your thoughts as questions rather than making bold assertions, or state up front that youwere told something and you are not sure. That may keep the bit in our mouths.
Lot’s of folks come here making bold proclamations about what the Catholic Church believes and teaches, and they really have no idea!
The elect are those who answer the call of God. If you want to be chosen, then chose He who has chosen you!