HELP! re: dating and girls

[Ankabaranka_87]

As one of my female friends said to me in connection with a recent relationship attempt, “text messages can be sent from the toilet.” Forgive the language, but she was making the point that there was no such thing as really objectively too busy as long as one cared. Imagine if she really were interested, would she behave the same way?

I do agree with chevalier here. If she was truly interested in you, romantically, she would have picked up the phone, made some time for you, etc. Saying that she’s too busy is maybe her polite way of hinting to you that’s she’s not interested. Her thinking might be “out of sight, out of mind” and being busy, you won’t see/hear her, and therefore might lose interest. Maybe not the nicest way to behave, but is there an easy way of telling someone that you’re not interested without hurting their feelings?

I can see where it can be confusing, when she didn’t pick up the phone but wrote you an message later instead. This could mean that she considers you well enough to have you on a friend-stage basis, but not enough to be a relationship-style basis. Because on the flip-side, if she was completely not interested in you for relationship or friendship, she wouldn’t even bother to write that message (despite that she didn’t pick up the phone/call you back).

Hope I made sense lol. I am on 3 hours of sleep/day these days and writing isn’t my strongest subject. :s Regardless, you’re in my prayers.

 

[flyingfish]

Again it seems she is busy. If she’s truly interested I won’t hold all this against her. And yet I feel compelled to keep trying with this girl (on my part) by trying to maintain regular consistent contact. What should I do?

You can end up coming across as needy and desperate or even creepy if you push too much.

If you have a problem of women starting out interested and then pulling away, this kind of thing could be the reason. Personally, any time a man seems to be too into me too soon I will pull away even if I liked him at first. It can be very creepy.

You have to create an air about you that you’re not a needy guy, that you’re strong, that you have things going on in your life. If you’re calling her frequently even after she hasn’t responded to your last calls, you’re not doing this, and you’re risking coming across desperate which is a huge turn off.

 

[Rascalking]

You can end up coming across as needy and desperate or even creepy if you push too much.

If you have a problem of women starting out interested and then pulling away, this kind of thing could be the reason. Personally, any time a man seems to be too into me too soon I will pull away even if I liked him at first. It can be very creepy.

You have to create an air about you that you’re not a needy guy, that you’re strong, that you have things going on in your life. If you’re calling her frequently even after she hasn’t responded to your last calls, you’re not doing this, and you’re risking coming across desperate which is a huge turn off.

Flyingfish, your totally right about this. I’m a guy, and I’ve been told that alot of women are attracted to confidence. If you end up looking insecure and pathetic (not saying you are either) it probably won’t work out very well.

 

[chevalier]

I can see where it can be confusing, when she didn’t pick up the phone but wrote you an message later instead. This could mean that she considers you well enough to have you on a friend-stage basis, but not enough to be a relationship-style basis. Because on the flip-side, if she was completely not interested in you for relationship or friendship, she wouldn’t even bother to write that message (despite that she didn’t pick up the phone/call you back).

Calls are generally returned in the form of calls. Very polite people will generally call back. I agree a text message is confusing in this scenario. Money may be an issue, however, or sometimes one can type but can’t talk, e.g. if it’s loud out there or one’s attending a meeting or lecture, so this isn’t really a hint on its own.

You can end up coming across as needy and desperate or even creepy if you push too much.

If you have a problem of women starting out interested and then pulling away, this kind of thing could be the reason. Personally, any time a man seems to be too into me too soon I will pull away even if I liked him at first. It can be very creepy.

You have to create an air about you that you’re not a needy guy, that you’re strong, that you have things going on in your life. If you’re calling her frequently even after she hasn’t responded to your last calls, you’re not doing this, and you’re risking coming across desperate which is a huge turn off.

I will be going off-topic here, but since girls and young women are reading us too. Just as I told my poor friend less than 2 hours ago, men will remember how they were treated in the beginning. It will kick back. Starting out not returning calls, not replying, promising to call but not calling etc. and later falling for the guy and expecting him to be fully dedicated and invested is not the way to start a good relationship. They will think, “You didn’t want me when I was giving you my everything, now you want me when I’ve basically started caring less and trying less.” It’s very hard to get out of this pattern as a man, and in fact, it can be a huge turn-off later in a relationship. It’s possible that my 1.5 years relationship fell apart because of this. As I told my friend, skip the men whom you don’t consider good enough, don’t give them opportunity to linger and get you by long-standing. But when you find a guy you see you could be interested in, even if you don’t know yet, but he’s basically a guy you could like and respect, treat him well, keep your promises, be honest with him. I recommend this to all our female readers from a man’s point of view. This is a minimum. For a maximum, I would suggest that you treat all people (male or female) right, being kind, polite, honest and keeping your promises and arrangements, but keep your boundaries clear and consistent. At any rate, don’t ever offer a man substandard treatment to test him (for your both sakes because you can’t expect him not to came out scarred from that and you can’t expect him to see you as someone who wouldn’t hurt a fly if you have hurt him), don’t start a relationship with someone who apparently was able to survive all the bad treatment you could give him (for your sake–like a broken dog, he will bite back when he regains control of the situation, which happened to my friend), defeat the urge to be attracted and pursue men who treat you badly or ignore you (they are *not *better than you just because they can apparently afford to ignore you and they are not better than men who treat you well or show interest just because they think they don’t have to).

 

[kage_ar]

Wow, I remember way back when, we would call a sweetheart - leave a message either on a machine or with a person in the house and wait for a call back. It was okay to call again because there was a chance he/she did not get the message. Sometimes, people did not have a machine and the phone just rang when they were not home!

Now, with cell phones and caller ID, if someone does not take your call or call you/txt you back, you KNOW they do not want to talk to you. Instant rejection. Not fun.

 

[flyingfish]

I will be going off-topic here, but since girls and young women are reading us too. Just as I told my poor friend less than 2 hours ago, men will remember how they were treated in the beginning. It will kick back. Starting out not returning calls, not replying, promising to call but not calling etc. and later falling for the guy and expecting him to be fully dedicated and invested is not the way to start a good relationship. They will think, “You didn’t want me when I was giving you my everything, now you want me when I’ve basically started caring less and trying less.” It’s very hard to get out of this pattern as a man, and in fact, it can be a huge turn-off later in a relationship. It’s possible that my 1.5 years relationship fell apart because of this. As I told my friend, skip the men whom you don’t consider good enough, don’t give them opportunity to linger and get you by long-standing. But when you find a guy you see you could be interested in, even if you don’t know yet, but he’s basically a guy you could like and respect, treat him well, keep your promises, be honest with him. I recommend this to all our female readers from a man’s point of view. This is a minimum. For a maximum, I would suggest that you treat all people (male or female) right, being kind, polite, honest and keeping your promises and arrangements, but keep your boundaries clear and consistent. At any rate, don’t ever offer a man substandard treatment to test him (for your both sakes because you can’t expect him not to came out scarred from that and you can’t expect him to see you as someone who wouldn’t hurt a fly if you have hurt him), don’t start a relationship with someone who apparently was able to survive all the bad treatment you could give him (for your sake–like a broken dog, he will bite back when he regains control of the situation, which happened to my friend), defeat the urge to be attracted and pursue men who treat you badly or ignore you (they are *not *better than you just because they can apparently afford to ignore you and they are not better than men who treat you well or show interest just because they think they don’t have to).

They are not in a relationship from what I understand, it seems like the OP just recently started talking to this girl on the phone. There would be different expectations in a relationship, and it is obviously very inconsiderate not to return a boyfriend’s calls, nor would it be normal.

But if you’re looking to start a relationship with a woman, spamming her with phone calls which she doesn’t return sounds like a bad idea. That early, you shouldn’t give the impression that you’re too eager or desperate because it can be off putting unless it’s some love at first sight situation and that kind of attention is welcomed.

From her perspective, he is probably one of many male acquaintances. She just started talking to him, she doesn’t know him that well, but maybe is interested in getting to know him.

But she can’t be that interested at this point or she would have talked to him in the few days its been. How busy would you have to be not to find time to send an e-mail or a text message or whatever over several days. It’s how you would treat a guy you are semi-interested in, so he would still have to find a way to impress her and get her to show more interest.

 

[chevalier]

How busy would you have to be not to find time to send an e-mail or a text message or whatever over several days. It’s how you would treat a guy you are semi-interested in, so he would still have to find a way to impress her and get her to show more interest.

I disagree. Replying and returning calls (from strangers, let alone acquaintances) is a matter of basic politeness and not returning calls or replying to messages is a matter of bad manners.

Playing a “will I reply or will I not reply” game is playing head games with a man, who, just like a woman, is a human person with a personality and feelings and deserves so much more.

 

[kage_ar]

i disagree. Replying and returning calls (from strangers, let alone acquaintances) is a matter of basic politeness and not returning calls or replying to messages is a matter of bad manners.

Playing a “will i reply or will i not reply” game is playing head games with a man, who, just like a woman, is a human person with a personality and feelings and deserves so much more.

exactly!

 

[flyingfish]

I disagree. Replying and returning calls (from strangers, let alone acquaintances) is a matter of basic politeness and not returning calls or replying to messages is a matter of bad manners.

Playing a “will I reply or will I not reply” game is playing head games with a man, who, just like a woman, is a human person with a personality and feelings and deserves so much more.

Well, she did respond to him online to say she’s busy, I think that covers the “manners” aspect.

I don’t think she does it on purpose. She might be busy, she might have very little free time on her hands and may be choosing to spend it in another way such as by reading a book or whatever. Unless she is truly extremely busy, he probably just isn’t at the top of her priority list, which is normal for people who only recently started talking on the phone and as I understand it have not met in real life.

 

[chevalier]

Well, she did respond to him online to say she’s busy, I think that covers the “manners” aspect.

It does not. Fake excuses are bad manners and stating “busy” as an excuse not to find a minute to call or type a text message is bad manners too. (Plus, anyone giving
someone so bad an excuse one would need to be an idiot to believe insults the other person’s intelligence.)

“I’m sorry, but I was so busy I really couldn’t call/text back earlier,” this is good manners. It would be polite to inquire as to the reason of calling or spend some effort talking about the subject of the until now not replied message. I’m talking about strangers or superficial acquaintances here, not friends.

I don’t think she does it on purpose. She might be busy, she might have very little free time on her hands and may be choosing to spend it in another way such as by reading a book or whatever.

Choosing to read a book when one has received a text message with a question mark is bad manners and uncharitable. Less strikingly, but the same is true about an unpicked call (except from a proven nag).

Unless she is truly extremely busy, he probably just isn’t at the top of her priority list,

Priority lists we make don’t exempt us from good manners our fathers made.

which is normal for people who only recently started talking on the phone and as I understand it have not met in real life.

It’s not normal, it’s only common. It’s poor manners.

 

[flyingfish]

Choosing to read a book when one has received a text message with a question mark is bad manners and uncharitable. Less strikingly, but the same is true about an unpicked call (except from a proven nag).

Well, I don’t know. He met this girl online, and only recently started talking to her on the phone. I don’t think it would be uncharitable of her to read a book instead of calling him back. She did get back to him on the internet, which seems appropriate for two acquaintances who met online.

I guess the real question is how busy she is. If she is in a very demanding job, or if she’s a student and it’s exam time she could be interested in him and at the same time literally not have much time to talk to him.

It is possible though that she’s not that busy, but only too busy for him.

 

[chevalier]

Well, I don’t know. He met this girl online, and only recently started talking to her on the phone. I don’t think it would be uncharitable of her to read a book instead of calling him back. She did get back to him on the internet, which seems appropriate for two acquaintances who met online.

I said it was bad manners to leave it without a reply, not to send a reply on the Internet.

I guess the real question is how busy she is. If she is in a very demanding job, or if she’s a student and it’s exam time she could be interested in him and at the same time literally not have much time to talk to him.

I think we’re speculating a lot now and losing track of various possibilities.

It is possible though that she’s not that busy, but only too busy for him.

Precisely and I don’t like that kind of mental games.

 

[LotusCarsLtd]

I don’t think she does it on purpose. She might be busy, she might have very little free time on her hands and may be choosing to spend it in another way such as by reading a book or whatever. Unless she is truly extremely busy, he probably just isn’t at the top of her priority list, which is normal for people who only recently started talking on the phone and as I understand it have not met in real life.

She is very involved at her parish, it seem, which would explain why she’s busy.

 

[kage_ar]

She is very involved at her parish, it seem, which would explain why she’s busy.

I’m very involved in my Parish, in my community, I work two demanding jobs and am starting a home based business. I am married and a mom. Guess what, I return my phone calls.

 

[chevalier]

She is very involved at her parish, it seem, which would explain why she’s busy.

That may involve sitautions like talking to people (can’t type) or being in church building (unable to call), although it makes a slavedriving boss scenario unlikely. You will need to know if that involvement absorbs her mentally so that she can’t think about anything else, or if she’s in a habit of acting like that anyway. I would say just ask her out already and start from coffee (“Would you like to have a coffee with me?” sounds better than a casual “how about we have a coffee some day this week?”) and if things go well, you can say something like, “how about dinner and movie this time?” She will know what that’s about and it will be less of a train hit than using the word “date” (unless the girl is from a different planet, there will be no dinner and movie if you’re ruled out as a potential boyfriend). Use the time while having coffee to get to know her and see how she talks, what attitudes she has, what her views are on things important to you, is she kind, is she polite, is her way of being agreeable to you. If you can already say yes, go with the dinner and movie. If not sure, coffee again but suggest a different place. Or lunch. If you’re conflicted or there are red flags, finish the meeting without setting up another one and use your customary 3 days for thinking with a cooler head. Watch how she treats the service people or strangers wanting anything from her if you have the opportunity (this is very important information).

 

[chevalier]

I’m very involved in my Parish, in my community, I work two demanding jobs and am starting a home based business. I am married and a mom. Guess what, I return my phone calls.

Too bad so few women in Lotus’s age category, or mine, follow your example. I once had a resolution to get involved only with those who do and the logic behind it is appealing to me once again.

Speaking of logic, on a certain level, it seems more just to offer a relationship to someone who is interested in it than to someone who would have to be coaxed and convinced. It also seems more fitting that someone who wants it gets it (or at least a chance) than that someone who is non-responsive and dismissive gets it virtually pushed into his hands.

So, Lotus, don’t sweat your guts out for an uninterested girl (that is, if she doesn’t return your interest in getting to know her, spending time together etc., as pronounced romantic interest will naturally take time). You will meet others yet. Girls, not guts. Unfortunately, guts are not replaceable.

 

[flyingfish]

She is very involved at her parish, it seem, which would explain why she’s busy.

How close are you and she anyway? How long have you known each other? In what context did you meet online?

 

[ack]

Well, I don’t know. He met this girl online, and only recently started talking to her on the phone. I don’t think it would be uncharitable of her to read a book instead of calling him back. She did get back to him on the internet, which seems appropriate for two acquaintances who met online.

If she doesn’t have the time or inclination to communicate with the people she meets, she shouldn’t be spending time on an online dating site anyway.

In this case, it sounds like she just isn’t interested in the OP, but she doesn’t want to say it.

 

[Jay82]

I’m very involved in my Parish, in my community, I work two demanding jobs and am starting a home based business. I am married and a mom. Guess what, I return my phone calls.

I agree with Kage. My life is so busy that I schedule activities by the hour each day. I have to, I am just involved in that many things. I organize events, outings, run clubs, plus I work a very demanding job.

If you call me, text, or e-mail me. You’ll get a response from me before I go to bed that night. It is a common courteousy to do so. Even if it is simply saying - ‘Hey, I’m so busy today, I’ll call you tomorrow’.

There is always time to send someone a quick message or phone call. In the line at the grocery store you can text people if needed or send an e-mail if you have a blackberry. You can do so while pumping gas at a gas station. These are just few moments where nothing is happening and you can contact people quickly.

Although I will say that practice is great for work, organizing things, and maintaining friends, I think it hurts me in dating. I appear ‘too available’ or ‘too predictable’, it is unfortunate, but I’m pretty sure that is what is percieved by girls who originally had interest in me.

Bottom line (barring a few exceptions), if someone doesn’t return your calls, they aren’t really that interested in you.

 

[LotusCarsLtd]

How close are you and she anyway? How long have you known each other? In what context did you meet online?

Online a month ago or less, moved it to Facebook from a dating site.