Help! Sons of God -- Genesis 6:4

[Maria3m]

Please help. I’ve search CA & online, but haven’t found what I’m looking for.

Today, DURING MASS, my mother pulled out the Bible I bought her last week to question me on a verse. I couldn’t believe it!!! Did you read that this was during Mass?!

I barely looked because I got so upset…it just wasn’t the place for this and the fact that I bought her this Bible to have used to somehow slam me.

I saw “sons of God” and it was in Genesis. After a quick search, it’s Genesis 6:4.

Can anyone explain it to me? I’ve read an explanation before, it sounded good, but now I can’t recall.

My mom is living with a Jehovah Witness and my brother is a nondenom who is obsessed with bringing up the book of Enoch.
So, this has probably come from one of them, but I’d like to give her a good answer. I’m planning to visit her in about 2 hours (she asked me to come over to explain it) and her JW boyfriend will no doubt be there.

Can anyone (a Catholic) HELP?! Please!

 

[Damascus]

Your Mom is living with a JW? Um, they dont approve of those type of arrangements from what I remember… Oh my.

I am glad you bought her a Bible. I am glad she went to Mass with you.

I am glad she is asking questions, no matter how unfortunate her timing is.

Well, I am going to check into it for you, but in the meantime I wanted to say that you sound like a really great daughter that loves her Mom very much.

God Bless you and your family

 

[Damascus]

OOPs…

Ok

It is likely the generality of men before the flood were of a gigantic stature in comparison with what men are now. But these here are called giants as being violent and savage in their dispositions and mere monsters of creulty and lust.

What is the question she is having here?

 

[Maria3m]

Double check your chapter and verse-- nothing there for sons of God-

its

"Now giants…

Thank you, Damascus, for trying to help me.

Here’s the NASB translation (her Bible) I’ve copied from Biblegateway.com:

*4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the **sons of God *went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

 

[Damascus]

Sons of God is a term that seems to apply to angels at times or pious men. spiritual men as against worldly or natural men.
This may be the explanation of the “sons of God” in Gen. the Israelites are also called sons of God.

Can I reccomend you take a Catholic friend with you to this visit?

 

[Maria3m]

Sons of God is a term that seems to apply to angels at times or pious men. spiritual men as against worldly or natural men.
This may be the explanation of the “sons of God” in Gen. the Israelites are also called sons of God.

I wish I could hug you, Damascus! You’ve been so kind.

I see this is coming from my nondenom brother who tells everyone angels & humans had relations --giant children were born – so God flooded the earth.

I also like the part of your response I bolded. It will be helpful.
I guess I’ll have a fun visit with mom.

 

[Damascus]

I wish I could hug you, Damascus! You’ve been so kind.

I see this is coming from my nondenom brother who tells everyone angels & humans had relations --giant children were born – so God flooded the earth.

I also like the part of your response I bolded. It will be helpful.
I guess I’ll have a fun visit with mom.

No need to thank me. I am worried about you going alone. I think you should consider going with a Catholic friend that can play back up here…

Use extreme caution around JW’s, dont answer something under pressure- tell them you will get back to them.
Dont let them confuse you and change subjects.
DO let us know how it went and if they confused you.
You will get the answers here, not from them.

 

[Maria3m]

Use extreme caution around JW’s, dont answer something under pressure- tell them you will get back to them.
Dont let them confuse you and change subjects.
DO let us know how it went and if they confused you.
You will get the answers here, not from them.

Looking around online I’m uncomfortable discussing this verse.
It’s not something the CC stands or falls on (in my mom’s eyes), so I don’t understand why they are coming at me with this.
The Eucharist, Mary, Salvation…fine. We could have a good conversation and I’d be confident with what I know.

I found this online that shows the verse isn’t cut & dry, so I have no idea how they are going to come at me. (The bolded part is what tells me they are looking to have some sort of upper hand.)

*6:2 This is probably one of the most disputed verses in church history as to how it should be interpreted. There are three possibilities. The “sons of God” are (1)angels, (2)royalty, (3)pious men from the line of Seth. The “sons of God” is translated literally from the Hebrew: bene ha'elohim, bene 'elohim, or bene` 'elim – “the sons of Gods.” It should be noted this is not the “sons of YHWH” used in Job *

Looks like I will have to try to steer the conversation.

 

[runandsew]

In the audio series “Our Fathers Plan” with Scott Hahn and Jeff Cavins,
ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/seriessearchprog.asp?seriesID=-306548622&T1=scott+hahn

Scott talks about the fact that Adam was “made in the image and likeness” of God, the next time you hear that phrase is When Adams son Seth is born

“Adam was one hundred and thirty years old when he begot a
son in his likeness, after his image; and he named him Seth.”

And at the time that Seth’s son Enosh is born, Man begins to Worship God

“To Seth, in turn, a son was born, and he named him Enosh. At that time men began to invoke the LORD by name”
Scott says that this shows that the line of Seth is the line of God.

Now the decedents of Adams other son Cain, are wicked and evil, especially Lamech who is the first to have more that one wife, and is violent “I have killed a man for wounding me, a boy for bruising me.” This line of Cain is what Scott calls the line of man.
So when you read that the sons of God had relations with the daughters of man, it is talking about the Seth line marrying into the Cain line. And this didn’t please God too much.
I hope this helped, I recommend listening to the audio series to get a better understanding about this. It is a great Bible overview.

 

[Damascus]

I dont know if they are making a case to justify the injustifyable blasphemy of Jesus being Archangel Micheal or if it is going into another directon-

I will have to look at the falsetower stuff I have to see. They are notorius for spewing verses out of context and reading into things that dont exist in reality…

Dont go if you can help it until they are upfront with you about the purpose of this meeting.

 

[Maria3m]

In the audio series “Our Fathers Plan” with Scott Hahn and Jeff Cavins,

I hope this helped, I recommend listening to the audio series to get a better understanding about this. It is a great Bible overview.

runandsew, I’m going to my parish library right now to see if this is there. (I live two minutes from my church)

I don’t know how much I’ll be able to listen to before going to my mom’s in 50 minutes. Thank you, though.
Anything that will help me learn is much appreciated.

Why, oh why, am I out of printer paper now! LOL
I can’t print off anything I’ve found online.
Heading out now…

 

[runandsew]

I think that scott talks about this on the third installment of our fathers plan.

 

[runandsew]

salvationhistory.com/online/intermediate/class1_lesson2_2.cfm
this link is from scott hahn’s web site salavtionhistory.com
You might copy and past the following to your mom.
Here is one of his online bible studys he writes the following:

IV. A New Creation, A New Covenant

a. Falling Towards a Flood

The chapters that follow in Genesis (see Genesis 3-5) show us “the fall” of our first human ancestors - from divinely made son and daughter living in paradise, to wayward children who reject their Father’s wisdom and squander their birthright, lose their home.

The Devil, in the form of the serpent, tempts them and leads them astray (see Catechism, nos. 391-395). And sin - the rejection of God’s Fatherhood - enters the generations of humankind.

But even as His children have exiled themselves from paradise through sin, God promises them redemption, a homecoming.

He promises that throughout human history there will be an “enmity” between the serpent, Satan, and the woman, “the mother of all the living,” and between their offspring (see Genesis 3:15, 20).

There begins the tension that will shape the rest of Genesis and the rest of the Bible - between the bad seed of sin and the seed of righteousness.

The first child born of original sin, Cain, becomes the world’s first murder. As Adam and Eve, the first children of God, rejected the Fatherhood of God, their children reject the brotherhood of man, symbolized in Cain’s spiteful words to God: “Am I my brother’s keeper?” (see Genesis 4:9).

But there is also a good seed born of Adam and Eve - Seth. It’s the children of Seth, born of Seth’s son, Enosh, who first begin to worship God, to “invoke the Lord by name” (see Genesis 4:26). The word name in Hebrew is shem. Just remember that for now, it will become important later.

Violence and lawlessness and immorality began to fan out on the face of the earth until finally it infects the “sons of heaven,” that is the children of Seth (see Genesis 6:1-4). What happens in Genesis 6 is that Seth’s descendants, seduced by the beauty of the daughters of Cain, take them as wives. Worse yet, they took more than one wife - “as many of them as they chose.” The sons of Seth violate the sanctity of the marriage covenant instituted by God in the garden.

The fruits of the “intercourse” of the sons of Seth and the daughters of Cain were men of even more violence and wickedness - “men of renown,” which Scripture elsewhere calls “proud giants…skilled in war” (see Wisdom 14:6; Baruch 3:26-27).

Finally, God is overcome with “sorrow” and “regret” at “how corrupt the earth had become, since all mortals led depraved lives” (see Genesis 6:5,7,12).

 

[jmcrae]

I saw “sons of God” and it was in Genesis. After a quick search, it’s Genesis 6:4.

Can anyone explain it to me? I’ve read an explanation before, it sounded good, but now I can’t recall.

The DRV footnote indicates that this may well be a reference to the race of giants who were born of the union between the descendants of Cain and of Seth. These giants were referred to as “sons of God” in much the same way that kings and other powerful men are sometimes referrred to as “god-like.”

When they took ordinary women as wives, the children must have been startling in appearance, but in any case, clearly it was very unwise for these giants to take ordinary women as wives, and because it was so self-evidently a bad idea, and they were still doing it anyway, this is part of why God needed to start the human race over, with Noah and his family.

 

[Damascus]

The DRV footnote indicates that this may well be a reference to the race of giants who were born of the union between the descendants of Cain and of Seth. These giants were referred to as “sons of God” in much the same way that kings and other powerful men are sometimes referrred to as “god-like.”

When they took ordinary women as wives, the children must have been startling in appearance, but in any case, clearly it was very unwise for these giants to take ordinary women as wives, and because it was so self-evidently a bad idea, and they were still doing it anyway, this is part of why God needed to start the human race over, with Noah and his family.

Inbreeding problems. Now we have laws about that stuff.

 

[jmcrae]

Inbreeding problems. Now we have laws about that stuff.

Well, I don’t know if that was the issue, since obviously Noah’s grandchildren would have married each other, there being no one else for them to marry (which would be incest, according to our laws) and it seems to me that the descendants of Seth and of Cain would be far enough apart genetically that inbreeding was not the issue.

But, equally obviously, there was something about that particular genetic mix that was so unhealthy that God literally needed to wipe them out altogether.

 

[Damascus]

Well, I don’t know if that was the issue, since obviously Noah’s grandchildren would have married each other, there being no one else for them to marry (which would be incest, according to our laws) and it seems to me that the descendants of Seth and of Cain would be far enough apart genetically that inbreeding was not the issue.

But, equally obviously, there was something about that particular genetic mix that was so unhealthy that God literally needed to wipe them out altogether.

I just thought it would lighten up a very troubling topic that I find disturbing since God created man in his image…

 

[jmcrae]

I just thought it would lighten up a very troubling topic that I find disturbing since God created man in his image…

Yes, He did - but the Fall damaged the whole Creation, including ourselves.

 

[Damascus]

Yes, He did - but the Fall damaged the whole Creation, including ourselves.

I know- but to have to wipe out a bad strain of mutant humans? We have not had that happen since- Why did it happen to begin with then?

Oh well. Maybe I can PM you as this thread is going off topic. Sorry OP!

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Please help. I’ve search CA & online, but haven’t found what I’m looking for.

Today, DURING MASS, my mother pulled out the Bible I bought her last week to question me on a verse. I couldn’t believe it!!! Did you read that this was during Mass?!

I barely looked because I got so upset…it just wasn’t the place for this and the fact that I bought her this Bible to have used to somehow slam me. I saw “sons of God” and it was in Genesis. After a quick search, it’s Genesis 6:4.

Can anyone explain it to me? I’ve read an explanation before, it sounded good, but now I can’t recall.

My mom is living with a Jehovah Witness and my brother is a nondenom who is obsessed with bringing up the book of Enoch.
So, this has probably come from one of them, but I’d like to give her a good answer. I’m planning to visit her in about 2 hours (she asked me to come over to explain it) and her JW boyfriend will no doubt be there.

Can anyone (a Catholic) HELP?! Please!

Elsewhere in the OT - see Gen. 14 for instance - God is called El Elyon, “Most High God”: IOW, there are other gods subordinate to Him; they are His heavenly courtiers & “host”, His army; which is why He is called “JHWH of Hosts”.​

In Job 37.8, these gods are called the bene elohim, or “sons of g/God”; Gen. 6.1 to 4 appears to be a fragment of a myth of intermarriage between these heavenly beings, and mortal women - a myth common to many cultures. The same idea is found in 1 Enoch, which may be why 1 Enoch is so interesting to some people.

The Bible contains a gradual revelation - one way for Israel to deal with Canaanite gods, was to subordinate them to its own. Another, was to borrow features of other gods and attribute them to JHWH, in a different sense. So JHWH has several features of Baal - such as his followers, chariot, & association with a mountain called Zaphon, or “North”. The difference between them, is that JHWH operates in historical time, in the world of mortal men, and is a covenant-making God - Baal’s activity is in mythological time, & he does not make covenants.

The Nephilim, or fallen ones, are the offspring of the union of angels and women - there are allusions to giants elsewhere in the OT, as in Numbers 13; they are also called Rephaim, Anakim, & so forth. The Rephaim and (other) giants seem to have two purposes:

• to act as explanations of the pre-historic monuments found by the Israelites in Canaan
• to die - the Rephaim in Canaan are spirits of the dead
  There is mythology elsewhere in the Bible, as in Isaiah 27.1, and many of the Psalms. This is nothing to be afraid of - the Israelites and their neighbours thought in [what to us are] mythological terms; so gods had chariots, swords, nets, shields, armies; they gathered in assemblies on holy mountains for feasts - & so on. The OT uses all this imagery for the God of Israel, so there is no reason why there should not be a bit of myth in Genesis 6 too After all, the Incarnation is the greatest of myths - it is the one myth that is both myth & history: Jesus is the only incarnate god with a date in history: “under Pontius Pilate”. ##