Help sorting out a spiritual experience?

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bfree1216

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Hi everyone!

I recently had an incredibly spiritual experience that I haven’t been able to sort out very well in terms of my Catholic faith. It’s been incredibly frustrating and I find myself ruminating on it constantly. I was wondering if you might be able to help me out.

I recently had a mountain-top experience: literally, I was hiking and reached the top of a beautiful peak. I felt on top of the world, it was an amazing experience. So content, so happy, so mentally clear. I was absolutely consumed with the present moment. I’ve been working on “finding myself” recently, and even figuring out what the heck that phrase means, and I felt as if I had found myself. All should be well with this, but there are a few hugely concerning factors that I just can’t shake:
  1. Immediately after recognizing how great this moment was, I took a second to invite God into the moment. Rooted in my faith and in the importance of inviting God into everyday moments, I tried to lift the experience to God. I even began to pray a Rosary (finished it later). But every experience of prayer I had, I found it took me out of the present moment. I felt weak and powerless when I prayed: I felt powerful when I focused on my self. Even though I invited God in, I felt as if He wasn’t making Himself present, so I found what fulfillment I could find: in myself (that’s point #2).
  2. In my journal, I wrote some things that I just find so much conflict with. I can’t figure out if they’re good experiences or bad experiences. I wrote that I was filled with self-pride and self-love, but, and I mean this sincerely, these experiences weren’t the negative kind of self-love and self-pride: I didn’t feel as if I was better than anyone else, I just felt so confident, so sure of myself, so content. I didn’t feel any gratefulness, because I felt as if there was no one to be grateful to: I had found fulfillment in myself, without the help of some transcendent Other (this is a tricky point of course: I felt like God had led me to that mountaintop, but while there, gratefulness was the very last thing that I felt toward God). In walking down the mountain, I thought about how grateful I am for my friends at home and how excited I am to give myself away to them. In fact, I thought about how much I would be excited to serve others in any capacity knowing that I’m not looking to them to fulfill any need of mine (for I have it in myself): it’s the old idea that if we know who we are, we know the value of what we’re giving away, and it makes the gift that much more special.
But where I’m stuck is where was God in this entire experience? If I found fulfillment in myself without God explicitly entering the situation, if I found fulfillment without some sort of transcendent “possession” (for lack of a better word), and instead found it in myself, where does that leave God in the equation? Is He in me? Is He me? Does He simply not exist at all? I know these are scary questions but the raw power of the experience I felt has led me to seek these answers, and I can’t find good ones anywhere. (post continued in comments)
 
I didn’t ask for this experience to happen, but I feel as if I may have fallen into some seriously bad sin. I want to believe in what St. Augustine says: in searching for myself, I found emptiness until I found God (something close to that 🙂 ), but in reality, what I experienced was much more akin to a quote I found from Rumi recently, “When I searched for God I found only myself; when I searched for myself I only found God.”

I can’t figure out the right take on this: am I completely getting into my own head here, and God truly was showing me the beauty of my self, and I’ve just been neglecting Him ever since? I feel such conflict here because the results of what I experienced (a desire to completely give myself away to other people, the understanding that love isn’t about what we receive from others, but what we give) are all in accordance with truths of Catholic teaching. I just don’t feel like God was a part of these understandings, and it’s causing me so much distress 😦

Any help, insight, resources, or even people I could just talk to about this would be incredible (is there like a Catholic hotline of some kind?). Thank you SO so much in advance!
 
God created the beautiful peak. He gave you the resources and the physical ability to get to the top of it and look at it. It was nice of you to “invite him in”, but it was like you were standing in a beautiful room of the king’s palace and decided to “invite” the King to join you. He LIVES there. He’s letting you play in HIS playground. You should have just been giving thanks to God for making this all possible and showing you His beautiful creation and left it at that.

Feelings of power in yourself, to the exclusion of God, come from the devil. The devil always hits us where we’re most vulnerable. If you’ve been reading Rumi and kicking around the idea that God doesn’t exist and you can find fulfillment in yourself, then congratulate the devil on finding your weak spot.

And if you felt powerless when you prayed, that’s because we are all powerless without God. We can accomplish everything through God and with God. We cannot do anything solely on our own. Nothing. I can’t even get up and go put the trash out without God’s help. Much less climb a mountain.

You are asking where God is and yet He’s with you all the time, helping you do everything. You are getting lost somewhere in the windmills of your mind. Just stop, realize God’s always there, and you always need him, and you always depend on him, and you’re always weak, and you should always thank him. Nothing scary about that. The great men of the Old Testament recognized that. I myself have had it brought home to me in dealing with particularly scary situations.

There is nothing scary about asking does God simply not exist at all, because the answer is Of Course He Exists.

Not sure if this will be helpful to you or not but the idea of accomplishing something so wonderful and finishing the journey by feeling all-powerful in yourself and then questioning God sounds like you’re heading for a big fall if you don’t stop. Reminds me of the Devil taking Jesus up the Mount of Temptation.
 
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Endorphins - don’t overthink it, just enjoy the experience as an experience
 
It’s possible it was an immersed-in-God’s-Creation kind of moment, which is going to be a bit different from an immersed-in-God’s-Love kind of moment, and is going to be different from an immersed-in-the-connectivity-of-Creation kind of moment. So, in a sense, God would have been all around you, and what you experienced was a reflection of his greatness, even if it wasn’t a direct experience of God’s greatness itself, but you still got to share it and admire it and enjoy it in a particularly clearminded kind of way.

It helps to remember that God isn’t an old-guy-with-a-beard-and-magic-power kind of a thing, but God is our word for that-without-which-nothing-else-exists, something bigger and deeper than we can comprehend, either in this life or the next.

As far as the internal stuff goes-- I’m not going to make any guesses, because so many people react to the same thing very differently. You’ll have to work through that part yourself. I do know that when I’m “away” from my normal routines, I find myself struck with a desire to get back to the place I belong, to do the stuff that I’m supposed to do for the people God has placed in my path. A lot of times, that enthusiasm for service only lasts the car trip, and by ten minutes after I walk in the door, all the good intentions and boiling enthusiasm have evaporated! 🙂

God’s hands in the world are your hands, so do your best with them. 💙 But eventually, as we all know, our hands aren’t sufficient to solve all the ills around us… and although we do our best, we’re very powerless in the big scheme of things. All our efforts to help other people ultimately come to very little without God’s grace working in the lives and hearts of the people we’re trying to help. But God doesn’t judge us on our results-- he judges us on our love that leads us to make the effort. 💙
 
God is everywhere all the time. I have trouble with your statements inviting God into your moments. There is no need for that. If you want him there he is there already.
 
@bfree1216
bfree1216 said:
Immediately after recognizing how great this moment was, I took a second to invite God into the moment. Rooted in my faith and in the importance of inviting God into everyday moments, I tried to lift the experience to God. I even began to pray a Rosary (finished it later).
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That’s 'very nice God has inspired you to think of him ,and you responded.
James 1:17 Every generous act of giving, with every perfect gift, is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change
bfree1216 said:
But every experience of prayer I had, I found it took me out of the present moment. I felt weak and powerless when I prayed: I felt powerful when I focused on my self. Even though I invited God in, I felt as if He wasn’t making Himself present, so I found what fulfillment I could find: in myself (that’s point #2).
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when we pray at times we feel weak because we are not yet strengthen in spirit yet ,we should still persevere through the eyes of Faith. it is purely by God’s Grace you achieved any thing at all in life, because with out him we cannot do anything John 15:5 I am the vine, you are the branches. Those who abide in me and I in them bear much fruit, because apart from me you can do nothing.

All Glory should be to God and we all have hidden pride which we are not aware of and we don’t even realize it, unless it’s revealed by God or through people ,we are blinded at times. as said in Psalm 115:1 Not to us, O Lord, not to us, but to your name give glory,for the sake of your steadfast love and your faithfulness.God is still present ,even saints have experience dryness and lack of presence of God ,yet he is present even more.
bfree1216 said:
what fulfillment I could find: in myself (that’s point #2).
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That you can do all things by his Grace as in Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through him who strengthens me. This is your fulfillment and consolation ,the confidence in Jesus ,or my Jesus my confidence.He has given you everything eyes, hands, legs ,the breath,without which your (we ) are nothing .so let all glory be to God than yourself ,and it is hidden pride which makes you feel such thoughts ,we all have pride ,we don’t acknowledge it or at time not aware of it .
Isaiah 26:12 O Lord, you will ordain peace for us,for indeed, all that we have done, you have done for us.
 
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Thank you so, so much for the insight everyone. This makes so much sense to me. I just got so confused as to why God “wasn’t there”, which caused me to be ungrateful, which has led to a whole negative downward spiral.

I’m realizing that my mindset on the peak was “oh man, another thing I have to consciously offer up to God, yet another moment He takes away from me.” If I had taken the completely opposite approach–“Oh man, another great gift from God, another moment He gives to me,” I don’t think I would’ve fallen into nearly the trap I did.

It’s been brutal trying to sort this out but it’s changed my worldview on God for the better. God lifts up. God gives. God takes away of course, but only in accordance with His will.

Today has been one of the best days I’ve had in quite a long time. I’m grateful for your thoughtfulness, quick responses, and help with all of this. I went to confession after reading your responses (I had planned to go this morning anyways) and I feel like a new child of God, born into His incredible love.

Pray for me if you would, that I don’t fall into this horrible mindset again. Pray that I won’t look back, and instead trust in His divine love. Thank you once again so, so much for your help! Praise God!
 
bfree1216 said:
I recently had an incredibly spiritual experience that I haven’t been able to sort out very well in terms of my Catholic faith. It’s been incredibly frustrating and I find myself ruminating on it constantly. I was wondering if you might be able to help me out.
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One question would involve asking what the experience actually meant or did for you? What good is it, other than to feel nice about yourself? Can anyone really feel whole and complete without knowing “more”? Without knowing where one came from, what we’re here for, where we’re going? Can “I” satisfy me, in any meaningful and long-lasting manner?

Also, our own prayers etc, come from us. God may or may not be involved in any of it. In any case, when He moves in a person purposefully and dramatically, there’s no question about where the experience comes from and how profoundly important as well as informative it is.
 
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I completely agree with you, and this is something I’ve been kind of resisting the past few weeks (this notion that I’ve essentially shut myself off to the idea that there IS more out there), and today has been an eye-opener for me in terms of seeking more, desiring more, desiring God, and feeling His goodness and blessings. Thank you for the insight!!
 
God is trying to show you that He and your true self, are not separate, but connected in love. Divine Union is what we all should be seeking. Some receive it here on earth, while others just get a taste of it and have to wait until heaven, to receive full union. I recommend reading St John of the Cross’ “Spiritual Canticle.” I think you’ll see the commonality of what you experienced in there.

Feeling God’s presence within, is the first stage of contemplation and it’s advised by spiritual teachers not to try and manipulated it with thoughts outside of that presence.

St Teresa of Avila called the awareness of God’s presence, interior prayer.

You were given a gift from God. Don’t try to put your own commentary into it, just accept that it was given to you. If you try to find the meaning behind it, you’ll end up putting your own agenda into it, rather than what God intended.

Jim
 
Has this experience helped you to be a more loving or generous person?

Have you been able to recreate the experience? if not, it was grace. Perhaps is was an aspect of God off your radar. Maybe it was God intimate with you.
 
There exists an unlimited number of spiritual levels. St. Teresa of Avila said “the soul is like a multifaceted diamond.” Our souls were created to be eternal and when we are connected to eternity we experience eternity. God is eternity. We experience eternal pathways. We are like a labyrinth where some pathways are familiar and some are mysterious. Sometimes we climb high to get a glimpse of eternity and then we see our soul the way God sees our soul. Sometimes we find ourselves looking down at our feet to know how far we have journeyed. It is like looking into a mirror. We see our own reflection. George Lucas uses this technique in Star Wars many times. He borrowed the ideas from mythology. Read “The Hero With A Thousand Faces.” There are also some books on the knight’s quest for the Holy Grail. There will always be times of doubt, the desert experience, isolation, joy, self esteem, etc… The vibrations of the soul are endless, like the waves on the ocean. Our faith should be like a duck on the ocean. A wave rolls over the duck, the duck tumbles and the duck swims to the surface again and floats upright and joyful as if nothing happened. We continue. That is what faith is like. The world changes around us and we stay the same unless we permit ourselves to change. God never changes.
 
No problem bfree. Drink the real drink of the eternal spring of His divine essence. Be courageous and enjoy.
 
Hi again everyone!

I want to come back to this one more time because I have a really quick follow-up thought. In reflecting on the experience a little bit more, I remembered an important detail that bothers me, and I was hoping to get your perspective on it.

In looking back at that experience, I remember specifically thinking to myself in the moment “I should thank God for this” and as I was thanking Him, I remembering feeling just horrible. Completely drawn out of myself, I felt like I was giving up myself for something so much more limiting.

I recognize that part of this isn’t horrible! I’ve been feeling a lot of consolation with the fact that we don’t always need to be thinking of God in the moment when we know He’s always with us (read: we should always be open to God, and acting in accordance with His will, but we don’t always have to have our minds fixated on contemplative thought of Him. I guess this could be a point of contention, but to me, this is a profound level of contemplative prayer that I am far from attaining at this point). C.S. Lewis talks about this idea of contemplation and enjoyment, that we can’t really do both at the same time (well, arguably the mystics can), and for me, in enjoying the unbelievable moment, I was ruining it by trying to contemplate God’s beauty at the same time. No big deal, just human limitation in my opinion!

At the same time though, the notion that thinking of God made me feel limited gives me concern. I know God isn’t limiting (in the way that God gives us what we need to live truly fulfilled lives), but by rejecting my thinking about Him, I had never experienced such self-fulfillment. It was the most self-fulfilled I have ever felt in my life. I’m blessed to say I’ve had some pretty extraordinary moments in Mass, where I’ve definitely felt God’s presence and been brought to tears, but I’ve never had as self-fulfilling of a moment as I did on that bluff, and it was all without feeling God’s presence.

So, my main question: self-fulfillment without God? Thoughts? Literally every word in that question could be interpreted one way or another, and I’m open to hearing anything and everything. Whatever keeps me from the clutches of sin or thinking that I don’t need God (of course, that is, God as I pictured Him being “limiting”). I know I need God, but whatever I was feeling on that bluff tells me the exact opposite, because I had never felt more fulfilled in my life. Thanks again for your help with this!
 
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St. Hildegard of Bingen actually spoke of this. What you experienced was God’s creation on a magnificent scale. You saw the great vastness of what He created. You saw the enormity of who He is.

You saw what God sees. What happened was you felt powerful and happy, and instead of bringing that feeling back to its source, the devil tempted you to feel it in yourself.

St. Hildegard had a vision, and I think this describes something very important.

“Her first vision is of a hidden mountain, the mountain of God’s throne, an iron mountain of immutable justice hidden in divine glory. A purifying Fear of the Lord contemplates this splendor. Not the kind of fear that pulls away to protect itself. Rather the kind of fear that is vigilant and sees the truth. Eyes which gaze with this holy fear can never be satisfied with the merely mediocre. They guard against every form of compromise. The glory they behold demands absolute allegiance, complete surrender, and total humility.”

As TisBear said, you were in God’s playground, in His court. He was there with you, looking down upon it all. The thing to do would be to look at the beauty and simply marvel at it. Mental prayer is best in these moments, as I think the contemplative prayer such as the rosary is better reserved for quiet and peaceful moments. Rather than turning your mind away from the greatness and into your imagination, focus it outward to contemplate the Divine splendor before you. It’s okay to feel happy, to feel exhilarated, this is normal. Just bring it back to its source.

If you’d like to know more about St. Hildegard and her view of nature, this article I think is helpful: What is Hildegard's Viriditas? - Healthy Hildegard
 
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bfree1216 said:
But where I’m stuck is where was God in this entire experience?
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God was everywhere. For starters, you can thank God that you have lungs and oxygen to breathe; eyes and amazing vistas to see; a mind and beautiful thoughts to think, and a life to live. The very fact that you are here means that you have come from non-existence into existence thanks to God, and invited to have a share in His Eternal Life:

God is Truth, Goodness, Love, and Beauty itself; He is the Source of these realities; thus if you experience beauty is is because of God.

Jesus teaches that we must Love God with all our heart, with all our soul, with all our mind and with all our strength, because we were made for God, like lungs were made for oxygen and stomachs for food. Thus the purpose of our brief existence on earth is to Know, Love, and Serve God in this Life, and to have a share in His eternal Life after we leave this world.

One has to understand that conversion happens in a moment, whereas sanctification takes a lifetime within the unique circumstances in which we live among the people we live with.

God is everywhere, but to see God one must be perfect like He is Perfect; the process of perfection is called sanctification, which is the process of unmasking, uprooting and removing everything in your our heart that separates us from God. Heaven is the Beatific Vision of God.

Sanctification is not about focusing on ourselves and our own beauty and self confidence; that was the mistake Lucifer did and he wound up a fallen angel, a wicked spirit of the dark.

Our sanctification involves us completely dying to ourselves so that God can live in us. We have to reflect God´s goodness in us, thus we have to become like a blank canvas so God can paint a portrait of Himself in our soul.

Today one may have health, youth and and security, but these things are fleeting and the time is coming when you will be sick and dependent on others. Emotions are fleeting, but truth, and goodness endures.
 
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