Help, starting to change my mind regarding waiting til marriage :/

[cena]

To the OP: I could get a violation for this, but I say go for it. Sometimes we can’t resist the idea of naked fun; we have strong sexual desires.

I feel your frustration, the feeling of shame and ridicule for doing the right thing. Is it worth it to you? Only you know.

In another thread I ask whether realistically we should test drive the car before buying it. I think real life is way different from the theoretical world of religious teaching. I do think sexual compatibility is something that people may need to discern.

You are young and these types of experiences are part of youth. I say have more fun. But if you choose to sin, do it right and use a condom.

For me I have decided not to have sex but that’s cause I’m 34, I have entered RCIA, and I fear losing out on marriage if I contract a disease. But I still regret not having more sex when I was younger.

Jesus understands real life is tough and he will forgive you.

I know I am condoning sin but I’m just wanting to be real.

Sex before marriage is not the right thing. God created sex to be used in marriage and fornication would be like spitting on it. Just because you have strong desires does not make it okay. Someone might have strong desires to kill people but that does not give them excuse to do it. I am not trying to imply that murder is as bad as fornication I’m just using it as an example because I don’t know what you consider right and wrong, and most people agree murder (to some extent) is wrong

Contraception is condemned by the church. Using it is a mortal sin. Wishing you had committed fornication (a mortal sin) is wrong and you should not think that way or give this bad advice to others.

Jesus only forgives the mortal sins you are sorry for. To do a mortal sin assuming you will be automatically forgiven Without intending to convert Is the sin of presumption so you would be committing two mortal sins. To be forgiven you have to have contrition. Even in confession without contrition the absolution it is absolutely useless

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html
Consequences of Artificial Methods

1. Responsible men can become more deeply convinced of the truth of the doctrine laid down by the Church on this issue if they reflect on the consequences of methods and plans for artificial birth control. Let them first consider how easily this course of action could open wide the way for marital infidelity and a general lowering of moral standards. Not much experience is needed to be fully aware of human weakness and to understand that human beings—and especially the young, who are so exposed to temptation—need incentives to keep the moral law, and it is an evil thing to make it easy for them to break that law. Another effect that gives cause for alarm is that a man who grows accustomed to the use of contraceptive methods may forget the reverence due to a woman, and, disregarding her physical and emotional equilibrium, reduce her to being a mere instrument for the satisfaction of his own desires, no longer considering her as his partner whom he should surround with care and affection.

Finally, careful consideration should be given to the danger of this power passing into the hands of those public authorities who care little for the precepts of the moral law. Who will blame a government which in its attempt to resolve the problems affecting an entire country resorts to the same measures as are regarded as lawful by married people in the solution of a particular family difficulty? Who will prevent public authorities from favoring those contraceptive methods which they consider more effective? Should they regard this as necessary, they may even impose their use on everyone. It could well happen, therefore, that when people, either individually or in family or social life, experience the inherent difficulties of the divine law and are determined to avoid them, they may give into the hands of public authorities the power to intervene in the most personal and intimate responsibility of husband and wife.

chastityproject.com/

I would suggest looking at this website, especially birth control.

 

[cena]

I had sex before I married my husband - to him. I have never had sex with anyone else.

Do I regret it? no, not really. It was the right decision for me to make.
I was 25 when we first slept together and we had been together since I was 21. He wasn’t a virgin (He is Catholic but wasnt as practicing as me in that regard) but from the minute we got together he was incredibly respectful of my decision to not have sex with him. He never once used it against me or pressured me at all. We even lived together before we had sex with each other. I can’t tell you why I chose to sleep with him then rather than when we got married (2 years later) but that I felt okay with that decision. And it was completely my decision.

I am not for a million years saying that, that is what you or anyone should do at all. But rather that I have been you and if you want to talk to someone who has been in your shoes I am more than happy to.
(I still firmily believe that sex and love should go hand in hand and that it is something for serious relationships)
I am also not trying to make it sound like I am encouraging you from the ‘other’ side

No having sex before marriage is never okay. Good things can come out of bad things but that does not make the sin of fornication okay.

Cohabitation isn’t okay either.

I know this sounds extremely judgements but you need to realize you made some mistakes If you want to save your soul. What you did was against Church teaching and it says you are Catholic

 

[wheelie]

At no point did I say I though it was allowed and not sinful

Cohabitation is perfectly allowed, there is nothing in Canon law that says you can’t live with someone. The acts you may do may be “never okay” but the actually living together perfectly allowed.
And does not go against the church’s teachings or law.

I said I was okay with my choices (re:sex), not that I thought they were allowable.

No having sex before marriage is never okay. Good things can come out of bad things but that does not make the sin of fornication okay.

Cohabitation isn’t okay either.

I know this sounds extremely judgements but you need to realize you made some mistakes If you want to save your soul. What you did was against Church teaching and it says you are Catholic

 

[cena]

At no point did I say I though it was allowed and not sinful

Cohabitation is perfectly allowed, there is nothing in Canon law that says you can’t live with someone. The acts you may do may be “never okay” but the actually living together perfectly allowed.
And does not go against the church’s teachings or law.

I said I was okay with my choices (re:sex), not that I thought they were allowable.

I have heard a lot that cohabitation before marriage is a mortal sin. Are you sure about that?

 

[wheelie]

Yes I am sure. (My dad spent hours of his life making sure there wasn’t anything canonically (sp) wrong with it - that was a very boring weekend)

It may be frowned upon pastorally but that is by the by

But the act of cohabiting (and just that) doesn’t stop you recieving any sacrements, and especially importantly, does not stop (and can not be the reason for a refusal) those two people getting married.

I have heard a lot that cohabitation before marriage is a mortal sin. Are you sure about that?

 

[Rau]

I don’t believe I am. I had waited all those years, sure I could have waited longer. It had always been hard from when I met H, it didn’t get harder in that way.
For me it would have been wrong, because I would have been holding off for reasons that no longer made sense to me and so in that way would have been wrong

So, putting the above together with your post #42, do we conclude committing a sin (the sex) was right for you? That is very unusual thinking. It suggests you believe you can be immune from the effects of (this) sin.

 

[wheelie]

No not at all, and I would hate you to think that of me.
I can’t really explain on paper (or on screen) why I felt and feel the way I do. I will say it was about the situation and him in a way that was particular to that.
So I guess yes - at that moment and for those moments on comminting a sin was right for me.
But that does not mean I escaped the guilt or the penances for that choice

So, putting the above together with your post #42, do we conclude committing a sin (the sex) was right for you? That is very unusual thinking. It suggests you believe you can be immune from the effects of (this) sin.

 

[Rau]

No not at all, and I would hate you to think that of me.
I can’t really explain on paper (or on screen) why I felt and feel the way I do. I will say it was about the situation and him in a way that was particular to that.
So I guess yes - at that moment and for those moments on comminting a sin was right for me.
But that does not mean I escaped the guilt or the penances for that choice

The Church teaches that “the ends do not justify the means”, so your view that something was “right for you” cannot be the same as “I did the right (moral) thing”.

Perhaps “right for me” means it “produced outcomes I wanted”?

 

[wheelie]

No, I certainly don’t mean that (what I put in bold)

So yes I guess you are right about the outcome thing. And I do not just mean that in a physical way

The Church teaches that “the ends do not justify the means”, so your view that something was “right for you” cannot be the same as “I did the right (moral) thing”.

Perhaps “right for me” means it “produced outcomes I wanted”?

 

[cena]

Yes I am sure. (My dad spent hours of his life making sure there wasn’t anything canonically (sp) wrong with it - that was a very boring weekend)

It may be frowned upon pastorally but that is by the by

But the act of cohabiting (and just that) doesn’t stop you recieving any sacrements, and especially importantly, does not stop (and can not be the reason for a refusal) those two people getting married.

I heard a guy was refused absolution because he did not make arrangements to stop cohabitation with his girlfriend. Are you sure the Church says it is okay?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=72049

 

[wheelie]

I heard a guy was refused absolution because he did not make arrangements to stop cohabitation with his girlfriend. Are you sure the Church says it is okay?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=72049

Positive.
As I said the church pastrally frowns upon it, (though that tend to depend on where it is occuring and of course the situation the couple are in). But there is nothing canonically wrong with cohabitation at all.
Now if you go to get married it states they assume a sexual intimacy until disproven (in terms of sinning - it is the sex part)
But the actual act of co-habitation is perfectly allowed and as such requires no absolution as no sin has occued

 

[Rau]

Positive.
As I said the church pastrally frowns upon it, (though that tend to depend on where it is occuring and of course the situation the couple are in). But there is nothing canonically wrong with cohabitation at all.
Now if you go to get married it states they assume a sexual intimacy until disproven (in terms of sinning - it is the sex part)
But the actual act of co-habitation is perfectly allowed and as such requires no absolution as no sin has occued

Sinfulness, if any, would relate to placing oneself in the near occasion of sin, and potential scandal.

 

[wheelie]

you most certainly could argue that you shouldn’t put yourself in a situation where it would be more likely to occure.

But I was asked if I was sure cohabitation wasn’t a “mortal sin” and was allowed. Which it isn’t (inheritantly) and most certainly is allowed (or rather doing so can not stop you do anything)

Sinfulness, if any, would relate to placing oneself in the near occasion of sin, and potential scandal.

 

[therose01]

xojane.com/sex/true-love-waits-pledge Articles like these scare me, a lot though… Talked to a Catholic guy today who mentioned that no guy will wait til marriage, and that no one he knows (catholic/not) has either. But I will keep reading all the responses here since it gives me hope.

 

[Rau]

xojane.com/sex/true-love-waits-pledge Articles like these scare me, a lot though… Talked to a Catholic guy today who mentioned that no guy will wait til marriage, and that no one he knows (catholic/not) has either. But I will keep reading all the responses here since it gives me hope.

I think you are sensible enough to know that believing sex is a part of married life, and proceeding on this basis, is not the cause of the issues faced by this woman.

The “no guy will wait for marriage” line is a lie. That’s like suggesting no guy will love you enough to want to make you happy.

 

[BlueberryPie]

xojane.com/sex/true-love-waits-pledge Articles like these scare me, a lot though… Talked to a Catholic guy today who mentioned that no guy will wait til marriage, and that no one he knows (catholic/not) has either. But I will keep reading all the responses here since it gives me hope.

That guy is a liar. I’m about your age and I know what it feels like to not know of one single guy in the whole world who is holy, and genuine, and loving. It felt hopeless, like, “No one will love me, so forget it.” It made me feel like I wasn’t worth anything because no one was pursuing me. It was terrible and I couldn’t shake it. It didn’t help that I lived in a small town, with barely anyone my age who was living out their faith.

But, that changed. I met some guys. And HOLY COW they were handsome! And not in the secular sense, like… their looks didn’t make me attracted to them. It was their inner purity that was so attractive. They actually prayed! And they talked with me like my brothers talk with me! And they never let me feel like I was worthless or not beautiful! It was glorious! I found that my confidence grew so much around them, because I wasn’t surrounded by the culture that told me, “Hey, you’re not worthy of love unless you do this, this, and this. And you’re not beautiful unless you’re this skinny, this tall, have this face, have this hair, have this body.”

So I’m here to tell you that yes, there are guys that will wait for marriage! And you, my dear, are worth pursuing! And you are worthy of pure unselfish love! And you are worthy of marrying the most wonderful, handsome young man in the world!

I really don’t know how I can convince you that they exist. BUT THEY DO. And when I think of my gentlemen friends, I’m inspired to live all the holier a life because I want to be pure for one single man, who will be my spouse some day. It’s worth it! And you can do it! Not only that, but you will inspire others to do it as well!

And, you say you’re not that pretty, and I know what that feels like too. I’m really not that pretty naturally… but I was thinking once, about some of my friends. And, of all my friends, some were prettier than others… but some, some had this beauty and dignity and confidence about them that was simply irresistable. And the girls who had such beauty weren’t the pretty ones. They were the ones who never said a mean word about a girl behind her back, and who knew who they were in God’s eyes… they were the ones who would be able to talk to guys, and the guys knew that she wouldn’t hurt them or gossip about them or use him. Simply, natural beauty is okay, but supernatural beauty is downright gorgeous, irresistable, and attractive!

And, it’s so hard to get my mind around how much God loves me. The whole “Jesus died on a cross for you” thing is great, but to actually understand that Jesus. died. on. a. cross. for. you… it’s terrifying and exhilerating at the same time! And to know that I’m loved that much, makes me beautiful. Because I can have confidence in that I’m worth dying for… that my personality and character are worthy… Ach, it’s so hard to explain!!

I know there are a few differences between you and I. I grew up in a great family… with sisters and brothers and a Dad who tells me that he loves me and a Mom who works so hard for us.

But, even though I grew up in such a wonderful environment, I was still hungry for this love that could only come from a guy. And I wanted it sooo badly… And one day, I learned that this intense yearning I had, to give myself entirely and totally to one person, and to be loved by him in return, is natural and beautiful and a gift from Our Lord. It’s a gift that is sacred and is to be cherished and held close until we are brought to the husband that God calls us to give ourselves entirely to in the sacrament of marriage.

You are wonderful. You are awesome. You are beautiful. And you can wait! One couple I know waited for their spouses until they were in their 30’s, and their marriage is glorious. I know for a fact that so many people are jealous of their mutual love for each other.

I recommend listening to this talk: focusequip.org/discover/events/seek2015/fearless-hearts.html It’s riveting and she’s so funny. But she hits exactly my struggles and hopefully yours’ as well.

In Christ,
BlueberryPie

 

[chevalier]

Hi everyone. So, I’m a Catholic living in a very secular country in northern Europe. In my life I have always believed in waiting with sex until marriage. But now that I’m 19, realizing more about how this world works etc, I am starting to change my opinion on it more and more. I’ve almost gotten to the point where I’m questioning whether I should even bother waiting until marriage. I just don’t see a reason to wait if I’m going to be in a stable relationship. I feel like finding a good guy willing to wait is impossible. Like I mentioned I live in a secular country, in a big city. There are a lot of kind, educated, handsome, good men here BUT they are 99 % atheists and think that religious people are nuts/ridiculous. In my church there are only families, and some single middle aged people. I have some Catholic friends from church but none of them are waiting til marriage, they support gay marriage etc. I just feel like I have no hope left of finding a guy here who will wait til marriage. I’m already ‘different’ in the sense that I’m biracial (half black half white) and I’m really not beautiful, so to find someone here who is ready to date a biracial woman (interracial relationships are not so common here) who happens to in my case not be so beautiful, and also wait til marriage, feels… Impossible :/. I see people from all religions getting together with Nordic boyfriends, marrying etc. I see marriages working fine where they have not waited, whereas there are people who wait who end up getting divorced anyway. I don’t know anymore, I know this is a Church teaching, but I don’t feel like it’s possible in todays world. What if I wait and wait and lose opportunities with relationships I could have had, only to end up alone anyway? I get the arguments for waiting, but I have heard and read few conversations about this, the guys often say: 1. “What if they end up getting married, don’t work together in that departement, then they are stuck with that for the rest of their life.” 2. “Sex is an important part of a relationship.” 3. “Why wait with something thats natural?” 4. “If she can withhold sex with me for years, who knows if she will do that in the marriage too?” Etc. In the beginning I was defensive but now, because of everything I have listed, I’m starting to change my mind even though I don’t want to, I want to be a good catholic but I don’t know how to deal with this…

Well, Rose, there isn’t really a place on earth without such problems. It’s not just Europe, the US has had its own share of that and still does (who knows if not more so than Europe, actually), it happens even in Catholic countries. Heck, it did in the middle ages when everybody was officially a practicing Catholic.

To fish out some points from your post:

— Atheists who think religious people are nuts or especially ridiculous, how are they ‘kind, educated, handsome, good men’? They are bigots who ridicule things they don’t understand.
— You’re 19, it’s normal that you haven’t found your final relationship yet. It often takes people until 30 these days. You don’t need a boyfriend now, you need a husband in time.
— Divorce is less of a possibility when you marry someone who doesn’t believe in divorce. Someone who doesn’t believe in looking for a second chance as opposed to investing time and effort in building the married relationship and fixing it if need be.
— People who would quit if not entirely satisfied with the sexual experience are people who have artificially given a very high priority to sex itself and to the expectation of perfect experience, perfect prowess in it etc. Sex is not olympic games. It has more in common with a no-points game with people you love. Nobody needs to be a pro at it.
— If the emotional relationship is okay, then the sex also is going to be. Especially when you find someone whose expectation aren’t shape by porn. Especially the kind of porn that emphasizes high performance.
— After all, you’re out for the better thing! For love expressed in a dignified, human way, not for — excuse my French — mindless banging. (As a normal healthy man in my thirties, I can’t see how that would make anyone happy anyway. Superficially satisfied in the short term maybe, but not happy in the long term.)

For the record, I once found an agnostic girl — not an atheist because she didn’t claim certainty — who would wait, and did wait with me (although the relationship broke down for other reasons eventually). It happens.

Now obviously things are different if you’re looking at, say, 2 years of engagement and then normal marriage, as opposed to spending your young and vigorous ways in an 8-year long dating relationship that potentially leds nowhere. It would indeed be hard to survive without sex in that kind of scenario.

So, basically, if you’re thinking about guys who want to spend 20 years in long dating relationships before they eventually settle down and marry someone at 40 — or decide they don’t believe in marriage anyway, then yeah, it’s going to be a problem. On the other hand, a reasonable person, especially a family-minded one, could live a year or two or three in preparation for marriage, without even necessarily being a devout Catholic.

xojane.com/sex/true-love-waits-pledge Articles like these scare me, a lot though… Talked to a Catholic guy today who mentioned that no guy will wait til marriage, and that no one he knows (catholic/not) has either. But I will keep reading all the responses here since it gives me hope.

I did, still do.

 

[chevalier]

And, you say you’re not that pretty, and I know what that feels like too. I’m really not that pretty naturally… but I was thinking once, about some of my friends. And, of all my friends, some were prettier than others… but some, some had this beauty and dignity and confidence about them that was simply irresistable. And the girls who had such beauty weren’t the pretty ones. They were the ones who never said a mean word about a girl behind her back, and who knew who they were in God’s eyes… they were the ones who would be able to talk to guys, and the guys knew that she wouldn’t hurt them or gossip about them or use him. Simply, natural beauty is okay, but supernatural beauty is downright gorgeous, irresistable, and attractive!

On a more down-to-earth note, even in the secular world you’ll find handsome guys walking with not-so-pretty girls (externally), just like pretty girls with ugly boyfriends. Men are visual (actually, women too), but that’s not the end of it. Besides, even as far as looks go, great looks don’t make up for personality flaws (or else I wouldn’t be single), and a lot in how people present themselves comes from the way they carry themselves, their style, all sorts of things they can actually choose (to be or have or wear or look like). Even a sort of ‘aura’, which is basically a seamless blend of all of the foregoing.

For the record, look for your own style if you feel like it. I’m a man, and I did (because having a handsome look mattered to me). I’m still single, but hey, I’m handsome all the same!

 

[TruthSeeker92]

xojane.com/sex/true-love-waits-pledge Articles like these scare me, a lot though… Talked to a Catholic guy today who mentioned that no guy will wait til marriage, and that no one he knows (catholic/not) has either. But I will keep reading all the responses here since it gives me hope.

Hi therose01,

I understand why that article would scare you! But you must not personalize* her* experience! That is her experience, and you must not internalize it. Accept it, and pray for her but please don’t think that you are doomed to experience the same. Because, from what she was saying, her Church and her family never talked about why sex was GOOD and HOLY. She never truly was able to be at peace with the idea that we are meant to be sexual and holy. It is very sad and so unfortunate that she had to deal with all of the emotional trauma. But other women have written articles (not to argue with her or shame her, but to respond and to encourage women who feel discouraged like you) and I want to share them with you.

1. Jackie Francois Angel: I Didn’t ‘Lose’ My Virginity When I Got Married - jackieandbobby.com/2014/09/23/i-didnt-lose-my-virginity-when-i-got-married/
2. *Esther Rich: I Didn’t Wait and I Wish I Did *- chastityproject.com/2014/12/didnt-wait-wish-open-response-samantha-pugsley/

On another note, here’s an article which I think will uplift your spirits.
Emily Wilson: When God Provides - chastityproject.com/2015/01/god-provides/

I have found in my experience that praying a 54 Day Rosary Novena for myself and my future spouse helped me with all the worries and anxieties (including the fear of being alone because of our standards for purity) TRY IT!

When I prayed the Novena, at first I felt more anxious and there were so many worries and fears that (I believe) were being pelted at my soul. But after two weeks of the Novena I started to automatically think thoughts like “Oh, I don’t have to worry. God is hearing my prayers and if I have a future spouse he is covering them with my prayer. He is faithful and I can trust Him. I don’t have to worry.” And that trust I had, NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE. It was amazing! You can learn to pray it here: prayerflowers.com/54DayNovena.htm#Instructions

Pray, pray pray. These worries won’t go anywhere unless you begin to conform your thoughts and change your thinking through reading the Bible, prayer, the sacraments and finding some campus ministry or college/young adult groups nearby. Pray that God will bring friends into your life, men and women who are striving for purity and who will give you hope so the next time someone says “No guy will wait for sex” you can say “I actually know several.”

I actually can also recommend some books that have helped me that could help you as well.

*Emotional Virtue: A Guide to Drama-Free Relationships *by Sarah Swafford
*Praying for Your Future Husband: Preparing Your Heart for His *by Robin Jones Gunn and Tricia Goyer
*Woman In Love *by Katie Hartfeil
*How to Find Your Soulmate Without Losing Your Soul: 21 Secrets for Women *by Jason and Crystalina Evert

Also, Sarah Swafford has great videos that may help: emotionalvirtue.com/#!/audiovisual

 

[Jay82]

therose01 - Don’t let anyone steer you away from your values or tell you that you are wrong. You know what is best for yourself. I’m a guy that has waited and I’m in my early 30s. So there are Catholic men who will remain a virgin until marriage, no matter how long it takes.

You don’t need to find lots of men willing to wait or meet your standards, you only need to find one man that does. That is more than possible. You are young and it is easy to waver in your convictions at this point in your life. Don’t worry too much about what others are doing or not doing, focus on yourself and being as good of a person you can be and the rest will fall into place.