Help, suffering question

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Daniel_Marsh

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My wife listened to a faith teacher of the name it claim it crowd.

She is buying into, if one is sick, ill or whatever it is their fault.
 
Does that include babies who get sick and die in infancy or in the womb? If not, why not?
 
Daniel_Marsh said:
My wife listened to a faith teacher of the name it claim it crowd.

She is buying into, if one is sick, ill or whatever it is their fault.
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Perhaps in a VERY WIDE general sense this could be true; as ALL suffering, illness, handicaps, disease, etc…entered the world through SIN…
 
NO, Probably the earliest account addressed this, see Job 1:

7 And the Lord said to him: Whence comest thou? And he answered and said: I have gone round about the earth, and walked through it. 8 And the Lord said to him: Hast thou considered my servant, Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a simple and upright man, and fearing God, and avoiding evil? 9 And Satan answering, said: Doth Job fear God in vain? 10 Hast thou not made a fence for him, and his house, and all his substance round about, blessed the works of his hands, and his possession hath increased on the earth? 11 But stretch forth thy hand a little, and touch all that he hath, and see if he bless thee not to thy face. 12 Then the Lord said to Satan: Behold, all that he hath is in thy hand: only put not forth thy hand upon his person. And Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord. 13 Now upon a certain day, when his sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine, in the house of their eldest brother, 14 There came a messenger to Job, and said: The oxen were ploughing, and the asses feeding beside them, 15 And the Sabeans rushed in, and took all away, and slew the servants with the sword; and I alone have escaped to tell thee. 16 And while he was yet speaking, another came, and said: The fire of God fell from heaven, and striking the sheep and the servants, hath consumed them; and I alone have escaped to tell thee. 17 And while he also was yet speaking, there came another, and said: The Chaldeans made three troops, and have fallen upon the camels, and taken them; moreover, they have slain the servants with the sword: and I alone have escaped to tell thee. 18 He was yet speaking, and behold another came in, and said: Thy sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in the house of their eldest brother, 19 A violent wind came on a sudden from the side of the desert, and shook the four corners of the house, and it fell upon thy children, and they are dead: and I alone have escaped to tell thee. 20 Then Job rose up, and rent his garments, and having shaven his head, fell down upon the ground, and worshipped, 21 And said: Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away: as it hath pleased the Lord, so is it done: blessed be the name of the Lord. 22 In all these things Job sinned not by his lips, nor spoke he any foolish thing against God.

Job did absolutely nothing wrong and he lost everything. Next God will take his health. The story ends up showing God’s love and mercy in a type of heaven.

Another account is in Luke in the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Lazarus had nothing in this world.

The Widow’s mite is another story. She threw in her last penny and God took notice.

The name it and claim it crowd are heretics. All the poor and starving people all over the world are all the proof you need. Do you think for a minute that God cares whether you have a new car or a new house? God cares how you love Him and your brother and how we all get along.

Read a book on the accounts of the Saints. Suffering is something you share with Christ for His glory, treasure it.
 
Jesus’ teaching on the Sermon on the Mount is pretty clear:

Matthew 6:19 Lay not up to yourselves treasures on earth: where the rust, and moth consume, and where thieves break through, and steal. 20 But lay up to yourselves treasures in heaven: where neither the rust nor moth doth consume, and where thieves do not break through, nor steal. 21 For where thy treasure is, there is thy heart also. 22 The light of thy body is thy eye. If thy eye be single, thy whole body shall be lightsome. 23 But if thy eye be evil thy whole body shall be darksome. If then the light that is in thee, be darkness: the darkness itself how great shall it be! 24 No man can serve two masters. For either he will hate the one, and love the other: or he will sustain the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon. Mammon… That is, riches, worldly interest. 25 Therefore I say to you, be not solicitous for your life, what you shall eat, nor for your body, what you shall put on. Is not the life more than the meat: and the body more than the raiment? 26 Behold the birds of the air, for they neither sow, nor do they reap, nor gather into barns: and your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are not you of much more value than they? 27 And which of you by taking thought, can add to his stature one cubit? 28 And for raiment why are you solicitous? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they labour not, neither do they spin. 29 But I say to you, that not even Solomon in all his glory was arrayed as one of these. 30 And if the grass of the field, which is to day, and to morrow is cast into the oven, God doth so clothe: how much more you, O ye of little faith? 31 Be not solicitous therefore, saying: What shall we eat: or what shall we drink, or wherewith shall we be clothed? 32 For after all these things do the heathens seek. For your Father knoweth that you have need of all these things. 33 Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you. 34 Be not therefore solicitous for to morrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof.
 
As to suffering in general. The article on newdvent I read on poverty is quite enlightening.

newadvent.org/cathen/12324a.htm

Poverty or Suffering for their own sake (like Buddhism) bears no real fruit. While poverty/suffering for God’s sake / sake of the poor souls has great merit.

Jesus told the rich man to sell all he had, give the money to the poor and follow him. Here is what follows:

22 And when the young man had heard this word, he went away sad: for he had great possessions. 23 Then Jesus said to his disciples: Amen, I say to you, that a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say to you: It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven. 25 And when they had heard this, the disciples wondered much, saying: Who then can be saved? 26 And Jesus beholding, said to them: With men this is impossible: but with God all things are possible.

Jesus says to take up our cross and follow him. Pain, suffering, poverty.
 
BeeSweet said:
Maybe this will help you explain. Suffering is given to us for our benefit.
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Yes, suffering is a tremendous gift…and the more we suffer on earth the less we will have to suffer in Purgatory.

However, suffering, in general, entered the world through the Original Sin. Prior to the Fall, there was no suffering; for all were in Paradise.

I did not mean that each suffering we are sent is a personal punishment…(for in reality, it is a personal “gift”)…but only that were there never an Original Sin…there would never have been suffering.
 
Daniel_Marsh said:
My wife listened to a faith teacher of the name it claim it crowd.

She is buying into, if one is sick, ill or whatever it is their fault.
Click to expand...
I think John 9:1-3 would indicate otherwise:

As he passed by he saw a man blind from birth.
His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
Jesus answered, "Neither he nor his parents sinned; it is so that the works of God might be made visible through him.
 
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