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Mysty101
Guest
Why were there no boys? Did boys wish to serve and were not allowedd?
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Lux_et_veritas
Guest
Add to that list, Assumption Grotto in Detroit, which uses only males at the altar. I believe that these parishes likely also have higher vocation rates to the sisterhood, as well. I see young, devoted females right now that would not surprise me to see them head into vocations in a few years - traditional orders that is.
The interesting thing is that they don’t need to be serving at the altar for those vocations to be sparked. Tme will tell if my senses are correct.
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jordan
Guest
This may not be the precise document you refer to, but it’s the last word (I’m aware of) from the Vatican on the subject:
"47. It is altogether** laudable to maintain the noble custom by which boys** or youths, customarily termed servers, provide service of the altar after the manner of acolytes, and receive catechesis regarding their function in accordance with their power of comprehension. Nor should it be forgotten that a great number of sacred ministers over the course of the centuries have come from among boys such as these. … Girls or women may also be admitted to this service of the altar, at the discretion of the diocesan Bishop and in observance of the established norms." Redemptionis Sacramentum (March 2004)
Here’s the link: vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html
Hmmm…“laudable,” “noble custom” = boys. “May be admitted at the discretion…” = girls. When is it a “discrete” thing for the local Bishop to do? I know there were Bishops permitting altar girls in their dioceses before it was allowed. Perhaps it’s all just part of some brave new unisex world agenda, but as for me…what Rome says. Sounds like the Vatican would like to promote the former, while not absolutely prohibiting the latter. Is this what we’re seeing in general at the national level (preference for altar boys, that is) here in the US? I don’t think so.
jb
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Kay_Cee
Guest
Both of my daughters are altar servers. Sometimes they’re the only ones who show up when they’re scheduled. Often they fill in for scheduled kids who don’t bother to come.
Any boy who thinks it’s beneath him to serve God with my daughters needs a serious attitude adjustment!!!
Any boy who thinks it’s beneath him to serve God with my daughters needs a serious attitude adjustment!!!
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jordan
Guest
Kay Cee:
God bless,
jordan
Think back to when you were 7 or 8 years old. It’s all about cooties! It’s the nature of the sexes at that age, for crying out loud. Get it?!
God bless,
jordan
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RobNY
Guest
Exactly the opposite. There are good kids. There are bad kids. There are always people who aren’t going to show up. And you know it. I was consistently scheduled with people who, while happening to be in the alphabet near me, weren’t the most responsible servers. And they were boys. Many times though, my sister and I were scheduled together. Of course, we start servers at probably around 5-6 grade. I can’t remember anymore.
I remember many times serving by myself (which is doable but tough at the simpler early weekday masses).
My question for this thread is, is it legal for girls to serve? And if it is, why the problem? I understand being respectful to tradition… but if it is merely lowercase t tradition, and it’s allowed to be changed, then there’s no need to single out Catholic Churches that use female servers.
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CatholicCid
Guest
I remember those days… You either go back and find no one else or you go and there are like 10 people wanting to steal your spot… heh, those were the days
I got lucky, my twin sister served as well, so no matter what, there would always be two of us at a mass…
I remember two boys almost got into a fist fight because they both wanted to serve that day, but one wasn’t schedule to…
*“Girls or women may also be admitted to this service of the altar, at the discretion of the diocesan Bishop and in observance of the established norms.” * Redemptionis Sacramentum (March 2004)
I really see little problems with female servers as well… I suppose the worst thing might be the presumption of some people that since females could serve that they could become priests then, but that’s a little nitpicky.
I was a server, my twin sister was, my older brother was, but my eldest sister was unable to serve as she went through school in the early 90’s.
I think my Pastor liked having my sister and i serve, as when you get one of us, you would get the other… so you have at least two servers… We served countless Masses and a few weddings and funerals in our time.
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jordan
Guest
Exactly the opposite of what? What I thought I said in not so many words is that most pre-pubescent kids don’t like to be pushed into activities with members of the opposite sex. You and I may not have a problem, but there is a natural dynamic at work with kids this age. Maybe we should have a poll to see how many people think that 7-12 year olds, left to their own desires, seek to do activities with members of the opposite sex.
I move a lot because of my occupation, and I’ve seen lots of parishes. Usually you see a good mix of boys and girls when you’ve got brother/sister teams, and mom and dad want their kids to be servers. I am not saying this is exclusively the case, but it is the “norm.” I’ve been involved as a Lector, EM, and on the parish coucil in multiple parishes, so I’ve got some experience above and beyond life in the pews. And yes, no shows are common (both boys and girls).
It is also more than “doable” to serve by yourself. The vast majority of masses I served as a kid, I served by myself, quite often as the only kid there. The priest can say mass with no servers at all, so it’s really no problem other than for the altar server coordinator.
I quoted from the most recent Vatican directive on the subject above. Perhaps you didn’t read that. There is a difference between “legal” and encouraged. I find the fact that girl servers became a norm in many parishes when it was still “illegal” to be part of the issue also. Dissidents with an agenda were accomodated. It seems to me that accomodating dissidents hasn’t done a lot of good for the Church in our country (there are “Catholics”, “Catholic” Universities, and “Catholic” publications that support abortion, contraception, women in the priesthood, etc).
As I’ve said before, I accept whatever the Bishop of Rome and the Magisterium of the Church teach. No problem. God bless.
jb
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OutinChgoburbs
Guest
In our parish, girls do not serve at the same Mass as boys. Why? The cootie reference, and because of flirtation and showing off in the older servers. The only time a girl is allowed to serve with a boy is if they are sibs. I’ve noticed the girls drop off after eighth grade, but some boys hang in there through high school.
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kmknapp
Guest
In both of the parishes I belong to, there are neither boy altar servers nor girl altar servers. Assisting at the altar is an adult way of service.
One of the parishes, demographically, has very few children (downtown area full of expensive studio apartments). The other has a sgnificant number of child parishioners, and becoming an altar server happens this way:
At the age of 3 or 4, a little child can help as a flower-petal-strewer or ribbon-waver in feast-day processions. By the time a child is first communion aged, they probably have progressed to senior ribbon-waver, assisting the toddlers on proper decorum and not getting lost, or might help the ushers distribute orders of worship, vigil candles, etc. Then bearer of smaller banners, and, maybe by junior high, candle-bearer or bearer of middle-sized banners, or thurifer if particularly responsible. Stronger high school boys might handle the feastday processional cross ---- which is a handful, being a 4 foot wide tapestry about 25 feet tall. By the last couple of years of high school, youths learn, according to each one’s individual gifts and talents, how to assist at the altar, how to be a lector, how to chant psalms, and so on.
Altar serving is a thing one grows up into, not a childhood thing to be grown out of.
karen marie
One of the parishes, demographically, has very few children (downtown area full of expensive studio apartments). The other has a sgnificant number of child parishioners, and becoming an altar server happens this way:
At the age of 3 or 4, a little child can help as a flower-petal-strewer or ribbon-waver in feast-day processions. By the time a child is first communion aged, they probably have progressed to senior ribbon-waver, assisting the toddlers on proper decorum and not getting lost, or might help the ushers distribute orders of worship, vigil candles, etc. Then bearer of smaller banners, and, maybe by junior high, candle-bearer or bearer of middle-sized banners, or thurifer if particularly responsible. Stronger high school boys might handle the feastday processional cross ---- which is a handful, being a 4 foot wide tapestry about 25 feet tall. By the last couple of years of high school, youths learn, according to each one’s individual gifts and talents, how to assist at the altar, how to be a lector, how to chant psalms, and so on.
Altar serving is a thing one grows up into, not a childhood thing to be grown out of.
karen marie
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cardenio
Guest
Me, I’m more likely to serve when the scheduled server hasn’t shown up than because I’m scheduled.
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Celia
Guest
We’ve got a ton of altar servers at our parish. I think we have a few more boys than girls. The little girls always do a wonderful job though, and it doesn’t seem to affect the number of boys wanting to serve. Maybe we’re just lucky.
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MEP
Guest
At the parish I grew up in, there were usually more altar girls than boys, but that wasn’t due to any agenda. The girls were interested in being altar servers. They wanted to play a role in their church community and that role was available to them. Many of those same girls went on to participate in other religious programs and church associations. All of the ones that I still have any knowledge of have grown up to be wonderful women, strong in their faith and generally good examples for other people to follow.
The boys who were serving at the altar were usually pressured to by their parents. There were exceptions to that rule, but most of them weren’t there because they thought of it on their own. I know because I grew up with them and we hung out together (every altar server at that parish when I was a child went to the Catholic school across the parking lot). I don’t know why it worked out that way in our parish, but the boys didn’t really want to be there and the girls did.
Most other parishes that I’ve seen seem to have more boys than girls or an equal number of boys and girls.
The boys who were serving at the altar were usually pressured to by their parents. There were exceptions to that rule, but most of them weren’t there because they thought of it on their own. I know because I grew up with them and we hung out together (every altar server at that parish when I was a child went to the Catholic school across the parking lot). I don’t know why it worked out that way in our parish, but the boys didn’t really want to be there and the girls did.
Most other parishes that I’ve seen seem to have more boys than girls or an equal number of boys and girls.
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MaryAgnes
Guest
Help us all! There are too many boy altar servers in the Diocese of Lincoln Nebraska.
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hilde_the_dog
Guest
I s this an issue? I guess living in the VA Arlingotn Dioceses we are conservative. Only men (Weekdays am) and boys. Hey I never knew what a paten was until we started that up a few months ago.
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Regi
Guest
Hmmmm… Maybe that’s because girls are not allowed to be altar servers in the Diocese of Lincoln. And I, as a Catholic mother to two daughters, like it this way.
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Dr.Bombay
Guest
God bless your good Bishop Bruskewitz! :tiphat:Hmmmm… Maybe that’s because girls are not allowed to be altar servers in the Diocese of Lincoln. And I, as a Catholic mother to two daughters, like it this way.
And may He call many more just like him to the episcopate!
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bookgirl32
Guest
Please, focus on that instead of the high number of priests coming out of the diocese, the huge amount of practicing Catholics daily involved in their parishes, the extremely affordable and amazingly high standard of education offered in it’s Catholic schools, not to mention a bishop who, although a little strict on the alter girls, knows his stuff and stands up for it!
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Lux_et_veritas
Guest
My parish doesn’t have female altar servers or lectors. When I first dropped into this parish in May, it took me a little time to notice the trend. However, I quickly let go of any thoughts that females should have equal time up in the sanctuary (and I am a female).
I have witnessed first hand what the priests have done with the 60 or so altar boys/men we have in our parish. In their closeness to the priests of the parish, they are being taught to have a solid prayer life, and are taught significant discipline. It is nothing to see 14 altar boys at one of the Masses and I am told there were 47 on Easter. I see priestly potentials coming from the ranks of these boys and indeed, there are some vocations. Many serve at the weekday morning Mass (homeschoolers).
I had to wrestle with the side of me that wants equality for women in the workplace and the desire to let these priests do their thing in making good, virtuous men out of these boys. I finally accepted that the results I was seeing was well worth keeping women out of the sanctuary.
One might wonder about the girls and who is teaching them to pray and to strive for sanctity like the boys. There are many prayerful, young females in Church - many who have brothers that are altar boys. They too have role models to emulate - the sisters in full habit that are on the grounds - four in all.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
I have witnessed first hand what the priests have done with the 60 or so altar boys/men we have in our parish. In their closeness to the priests of the parish, they are being taught to have a solid prayer life, and are taught significant discipline. It is nothing to see 14 altar boys at one of the Masses and I am told there were 47 on Easter. I see priestly potentials coming from the ranks of these boys and indeed, there are some vocations. Many serve at the weekday morning Mass (homeschoolers).
I had to wrestle with the side of me that wants equality for women in the workplace and the desire to let these priests do their thing in making good, virtuous men out of these boys. I finally accepted that the results I was seeing was well worth keeping women out of the sanctuary.
One might wonder about the girls and who is teaching them to pray and to strive for sanctity like the boys. There are many prayerful, young females in Church - many who have brothers that are altar boys. They too have role models to emulate - the sisters in full habit that are on the grounds - four in all.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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Lux_et_veritas
Guest
Here is another shot leading into the Assumption Day evening Mass.
I don’t believe anyone needs to cajole these kids into serving. I’ve witnessed many of them serving more than one Mass. They hang around the church together, play basketball after Mass in the gym while the folks eat hot dogs and donuts. I’ve seen many volunteer for Benediction and other things too. In fact, rumor has it that the pastor has eyes in the back of his head and that if anyone is caught talking during Mass, they are suspended for one month. I do believe that the vast majority of young males in this parish serve, so you can see how others growing up would want to join the corp - its the popular thing to do. The priests just finished up a silent retreat for a group of them. Its nothing to see these boys in the altar pews on either side, sitting there 15 minutes before things start, prayerbook in hand preparing for the Mass. Many are visibly devout and highly reverent.
http://www.assumptiongrotto.com/JPG/aug15/Aug15_9.jpg
I don’t believe anyone needs to cajole these kids into serving. I’ve witnessed many of them serving more than one Mass. They hang around the church together, play basketball after Mass in the gym while the folks eat hot dogs and donuts. I’ve seen many volunteer for Benediction and other things too. In fact, rumor has it that the pastor has eyes in the back of his head and that if anyone is caught talking during Mass, they are suspended for one month. I do believe that the vast majority of young males in this parish serve, so you can see how others growing up would want to join the corp - its the popular thing to do. The priests just finished up a silent retreat for a group of them. Its nothing to see these boys in the altar pews on either side, sitting there 15 minutes before things start, prayerbook in hand preparing for the Mass. Many are visibly devout and highly reverent.
http://www.assumptiongrotto.com/JPG/aug15/Aug15_9.jpg
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