Help!? This man states that the Catholic Mass is gravely wrong?

[123Strontium]

Spare 6 minutes to watch this speaker explain why the Catholic Mass is wrong…
youtube.com/watch?v=kfAIaOp1VW4
“Roman Catholic Jesuit Vatican Mass Denies the Sufficiency of Christ Jesus Sacrifice”

What do those of you who know about the ins and outs of Mass say in defense to/of this?

 

[ProdglArchitect]

It’s just another idiot who makes claims about Catholicism without understanding it. Either that, or they chose to reject the Church’s teachings in favor of their own interpretations; a form of arrogance and pride.

Pay it no mind, Youtube had given a soapbox to anyone with any sort of conspiracy theory / axe to grind. In general, you’d do best to just ignore stuff like this, because 95% of the time they have no idea what they’re talking about, or are completely delusional.

 

[teresa_lamb]

research, using key words, that are in your own post…put them into google and see what hits you get.

Looks anti-cathholic, I would leave it alone…incase you want to debate with the ones who are making the claims…

but I still recommend “you” doing some research first…

Peace…

 

[teresa_lamb]

It’s just another idiot who makes claims about Catholicism without understanding it. Either that, or they chose to reject the Church’s teachings in favor of their own interpretations; a form of arrogance and pride.

Pay it no mind, Youtube had given a soapbox to anyone with any sort of conspiracy theory / axe to grind. In general, you’d do best to just ignore stuff like this, because 95% of the time they have no idea what they’re talking about, or are completely delusional.

Great post…this is something I just found out from a post that ran down my wall on fb…I did the research myself and learned alot about the person who made the post to began with…

I will never read anything he posts again…learned my lesson…and he’s a pastor!!

 

[malphono]

I watched about 4 minutes of that drivel and just couldn’t take another second. Ughh … another bible-banger.

 

[porthos11]

Heh. Vatican and Jesuit. Very Jack Chick-ish.

 

[Zeno11]

Spare 6 minutes to watch this speaker explain why the Catholic Mass is wrong…
youtube.com/watch?v=kfAIaOp1VW4
“Roman Catholic Jesuit Vatican Mass Denies the Sufficiency of Christ Jesus Sacrifice”

What do those of you who know about the ins and outs of Mass say in defense to/of this?

This is something that really troubles me, and although a cradle Catholic, I was well into my forties before I ever even heard that the Mass was a ‘re-presentation’ of Calvary. Like the man says, there is no need to replicate or represent that which Christ already finished?

‘For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit’ 1 Peter 3:18.

I always viewed Mass as obedience to Jesus’ instruction ‘Do this in memory of me’ which seems a very simple command and what I believe I am doing at Mass! I don’t understand why the Catholic church has to make what is so simple, into something so complicated and with no Biblical back up. I believe I receive the body and blood of Christ, but I do not see how this means He is being ‘re-presented’ on the cross. If anything, he asked us to recreate the Last Supper, not the sufferings of Good Friday, and this is how I view Holy Communion.

These teachings make me very uncomfortable and it is very hard to argue against those like the man in this video; Jesus said in Matthew 15:9, "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men’.

Interested to know if other people see the Mass the way I do, and also interested to hear where this doctrine of Christ being ‘re - presented’ at Calvary came from?

 

[Zeno11]

It’s just another idiot who makes claims about Catholicism without understanding it. Either that, or they chose to reject the Church’s teachings in favor of their own interpretations; a form of arrogance and pride.

Pay it no mind, Youtube had given a soapbox to anyone with any sort of conspiracy theory / axe to grind. In general, you’d do best to just ignore stuff like this, because 95% of the time they have no idea what they’re talking about, or are completely delusional.

Isn’t it a form of arrogance and pride to reject the teachings of the Bible in favour of the teachings of men?
What is it that he does not understand? I thought he was rather well versed in Catholic beliefs.
When did all these teachings on what the Mass constitutes actually come to be a part of Catholism?
It’s irritating when people post a serious question and they are told to ‘ignore’ it or that people’s opinions are ‘delusional’. Those are not really convincing counter arguments that explain why this man is mistaken. After all, he would say you were delusional! Please can some one give us a more thoughtful reply?

 

[R_C]

Jesuit Vatican Mass? He doesn’t even know what he is talking about

 

[R_C]

When did all these teachings on what the Mass constitutes actually come to be a part of Catholism?

Well, ever since the days of the Apostles, in fact. You know, the ones to whom Christ said: “I have many more things to tell you …] the Holy Spirit will take from what is mine and reveal it to you”? The ones who wrote the majority of what constitutes the New Testament of our Sacred Scripture?

Holy Mass is pretty much the same today as it always was, and the core elements are in fact identical to what the Apostles themselves would do on the Lord’s Day (Dies Domini, Domenica, in English “Sunday”).

Catholicism preserves within itself the fullness and plenitude of the Christian teaching, especially with regards to the most excellent of all sacraments, the source and summit of the life of the Church: the celebration of the Eucharist.

And by the way, this idea of “teachings of Bible” vs. “teachings from men” is in odor of protestantism. The Canon of the Bible was organized by men (by Catholic men) under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and Sacred Tradition is also based on the teachings of men (of Catholic men) under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. It is the worst form of arrogance and pride to reject 20 centuries of solid, scriptural, consistent Catholicism in favor of the novelties of some random modern-day would-be Bible interpreter. Master the teachings of the Church first, then you will be able to refute each and every other “Christian” doctrine very quickly.

 

[The_Reginator]

I don’t understand why the Catholic church has to make what is so simple, into something so complicated and with no Biblical back up.

Isn’t it a form of arrogance and pride to reject the teachings of the Bible in favour of the teachings of men?

I find this line of thinking from protestants very troubling. A well formed Catholic should see the problem right away.

The bible does not trump Church teaching. The bible is part of Church teaching. Christ established His Church, not the bible, to carry on His teaching and the Church has been entrusted with the full deposit of faith. Part of that faith is in the bible. If we think something is not in line with the bible then we need to research the topic and find out why this apparent contradiction is not a contradiction.

We must trust in God, who instructs us through the Catholic Church, rather than trusting in our man-made interpretations of the bible.

 

[R_C]

I don’t understand why the Catholic church has to make what is so simple, into something so complicated and with no Biblical back up.

These teachings make me very uncomfortable and it is very hard to argue against those like the man in this video

So you honestly think the random man in the video understands more about the Bible and about God’s will than the Catholic Church?

You honestly think that twenty centuries of theologians have not had the absolute certainty that what the Church does is in accordance with God’s will?

If you would rather listen to the random youtube protestant preacher than to the Catholic Church, then the issue is not with the Bible, but with your way of reasoning things out.

In all honesty: that man has no idea of what he is talking about. You can find many other videos in many other fields of study, you can find lots of videos on pseudoscience, conspiracy theories, anything you want, in which men like this one will give you lots of evidence for whatever bogus nonsense they want you to believe, despite the fact that others have spent their life studying and verifying what they negate. And the Mass is literally the one thing that has been subject to more scrutiny in Christianity than anything else.

I have spoken to “Christians” who have given me very solid explanations based on Scripture that Christ is not God, that there is no such thing as a Holy Spirit, that there is no such thing as remission of sins…and no matter how hard I have tried to explain, they still go on, prey of the anti-Catholic, anti-Christian idea that “the Catholic Church does unbiblical stuff that offends God”…unfortunately they are wrong, badly, gravely wrong.

Stay close to the Church, the city of light on the hill, lest you find yourself distracted by these errors. The devil knows the Scripture so well that he used it to tempt Christ Himself. How much more he does so today to us members of His mystical body.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Isn’t it a form of arrogance and pride to reject the teachings of the Bible in favour of the teachings of men?
What is it that he does not understand? I thought he was rather well versed in Catholic beliefs.
When did all these teachings on what the Mass constitutes actually come to be a part of Catholism?
It’s irritating when people post a serious question and they are told to ‘ignore’ it or that people’s opinions are ‘delusional’. Those are not really convincing counter arguments that explain why this man is mistaken. After all, he would say you were delusional! Please can some one give us a more thoughtful reply?

Why shouldn’t we celebrate Christ’s greatest gift to us, his death on the cross? Why shouldn’t we remember, each week, the complete sacrifice he gave for us? Why shouldn’t we celebrate it, and remember it, so as to continue drawing meaning from it?

The teachings on the mass and it’s form have been nearly constant throughout history of the Church, and were well established before the death of the last Apostle. While there have been changes in the physical methodology of the mass (such as with Vatican II) the underlying substance of the mass has remained undisturbed. If it was good enough for the Church fathers, and the Apostles themselves, it’s more than good enough for a humble servant such as myself.

 

[fbl9]

If as dude claims one is perfected is he without sin? course not he would never claim to be without sin. So right away his theology falls apart.

He claims the the priest’s own power brings forth the body and blood, yet the Church teaches by the priest’s authority does the Holy Spirit brings forth the body and blood.

There is only one sacrifice that is acceptable to God and that is the sacifice of Jesus’s.
Which is being offered to God each Mass.

Without Christ’s sacarfice on the cross nothing in the Mass is possible. so Catholics do not render the cross invalid.

 

[porthos11]

This is something that really troubles me, and although a cradle Catholic, I was well into my forties before I ever even heard that the Mass was a ‘re-presentation’ of Calvary. Like the man says, there is no need to replicate or represent that which Christ already finished?

‘For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit’ 1 Peter 3:18.

I always viewed Mass as obedience to Jesus’ instruction ‘Do this in memory of me’ which seems a very simple command and what I believe I am doing at Mass! I don’t understand why the Catholic church has to make what is so simple, into something so complicated and with no Biblical back up. I believe I receive the body and blood of Christ, but I do not see how this means He is being ‘re-presented’ on the cross. If anything, he asked us to recreate the Last Supper, not the sufferings of Good Friday, and this is how I view Holy Communion.

These teachings make me very uncomfortable and it is very hard to argue against those like the man in this video; Jesus said in Matthew 15:9, "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men’.

Interested to know if other people see the Mass the way I do, and also interested to hear where this doctrine of Christ being ‘re - presented’ at Calvary came from?

Do you know what “memory” means?

 

[Zeno11]

Well, ever since the days of the Apostles, in fact. You know, the ones to whom Christ said: “I have many more things to tell you …] the Holy Spirit will take from what is mine and reveal it to you”? The ones who wrote the majority of what constitutes the New Testament of our Sacred Scripture?

That’s strange, because I thought all this came from the Council of Trent, which took place in 1545, surely? anyway, a rather long time after the Apostles.

Holy Mass is pretty much the same today as it always was, and the core elements are in fact identical to what the Apostles themselves would do on the Lord’s Day (Dies Domini, Domenica, in English “Sunday”).

There is no scriptural evidence to be found, that supports the claim that the apostles of Jesus Christ knew anything about sanctifying Sunday and observing it as a holy day of worship. Sunday became the ‘Sabbath’ in 321 AD by the order of Constantine…

Catholicism preserves within itself the fullness and plenitude of the Christian teaching, especially with regards to the most excellent of all sacraments, the source and summit of the life of the Church: the celebration of the Eucharist.

And by the way, this idea of “teachings of Bible” vs. “teachings from men” is in odor of protestantism. The Canon of the Bible was organized by men (by Catholic men) under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and Sacred Tradition is also based on the teachings of men (of Catholic men) under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. It is the worst form of arrogance and pride to reject 20 centuries of solid, scriptural, consistent Catholicism in favor of the novelties of some random modern-day would-be Bible interpreter. Master the teachings of the Church first, then you will be able to refute each and every other “Christian” doctrine very quickly.

I do have great faith in the Word of God as revealed by Scripture. And I’m not rejecting anything, just looking for clear information and reasoned debate!

 

[R_C]

I do have great faith in the Word of God as revealed by Scripture.

Then you are missing a big part of the picture and also risking to commit idolatry, for it is ultimately idolatry to transform the Bible, the word of God, into the living Word of God who is Christ. And it so happens that Christ, the Word, speaks through the Holy Spirit not just through Sacred Scripture, but also through the Apostles and their successors, to whom He entrusted the teaching authority, in what we call the Sacred Tradition.

This is, of course, especially well explained in Scripture itself…especially in the letter to the Thessalonians:

So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

Remember what Christ told the Apostles: “he who listens to you, listens to me. He who rejects you, rejects me.”

Who do you think is being rejected by the random man criticizing what the Apostles and their successors have always done throughout history?

Who do you think is wrong, the billions who have always celebrated Mass throughout the centuries ever since the Last Supper, or him?

 

[chimo]

Spare 6 minutes to watch this speaker explain why the Catholic Mass is wrong…
youtube.com/watch?v=kfAIaOp1VW4
“Roman Catholic Jesuit Vatican Mass Denies the Sufficiency of Christ Jesus Sacrifice”

What do those of you who know about the ins and outs of Mass say in defense to/of this?

I saw it and he is gravely mistaken. I wouldn’t pay to him any attention. He is using scripture to justify his own interpretation but he neglects the Holy Tradition of the Church. If I can say it truthfully he is acting more like a Protestant. The Sacrifice of the Mass is as real today as it was done on Calvary. The Divine Liturgy of the Orthodox Church is this same Sacrifice. When one attends Mass or the Divine Liturgy you are presently there at that Sacrifice. St. Symeon the New Theologian, a Church Father of the Eastern Church had stated to his monks when they attend to the Divine Liturgy to “stand trembling as if the Son of God is crucified before your very eyes.” This gentleman whoever he is does not understand the Mass as does the saints and the Church to which he belongs to. In the Mass and the Divine Liturgy you are transported to that same Sacrifice. You are there and in time as you participate into the Mass this wonderful truth should come to be real for you. The Cross of Christ can now be planted in Moscow, Athens, Rome, New York City and so on so that the people in whenever generation can have those same experiences as did that first generation.

 

[TheDoctor]

This is something that really troubles me, and although a cradle Catholic, I was well into my forties before I ever even heard that the Mass was a ‘re-presentation’ of Calvary. Like the man says, there is no need to replicate or represent that which Christ already finished?

Give a listen to this from Jimmy Akin and see if it helps to explain the teaching:
catholic.com/video/do-catholics-re-sacrifice-christ

 

[porthos11]

This is something that really troubles me, and although a cradle Catholic, I was well into my forties before I ever even heard that the Mass was a ‘re-presentation’ of Calvary. Like the man says, there is no need to replicate or represent that which Christ already finished?

‘For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit’ 1 Peter 3:18.

I always viewed Mass as obedience to Jesus’ instruction ‘Do this in memory of me’ which seems a very simple command and what I believe I am doing at Mass! I don’t understand why the Catholic church has to make what is so simple, into something so complicated and with no Biblical back up. I believe I receive the body and blood of Christ, but I do not see how this means He is being ‘re-presented’ on the cross. If anything, he asked us to recreate the Last Supper, not the sufferings of Good Friday, and this is how I view Holy Communion.

These teachings make me very uncomfortable and it is very hard to argue against those like the man in this video; Jesus said in Matthew 15:9, "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men’.

Interested to know if other people see the Mass the way I do, and also interested to hear where this doctrine of Christ being ‘re - presented’ at Calvary came from?

Again, do you know the meaning of the word “memory”? Because this is key to understanding why the Mass is indeed a re-presentation (making present) of the event at Calvary.

Further, what does Hebrews 5:6 tell us about Jesus? And what is the essential function of that description?

And what did John see in Revelation 5:6? Pay attention to the appearance of what he sees.

Also check Revelation 6:9. What are the souls of the martyrs lying under?

And what does St. Paul tell us happens in 1 Corinthians 11:26? You’ll find that we are not proclaiming the Last Supper until the coming of the Lord. But you will also find how the Last Supper is bound to Calvary.

The Mass as a Sacrifice is not a tradition of men. It’s completely grounded in Scripture.