Help through the dark night of the soul

[Thomas_White]

Because I rewrote my soul contract and agreed to go to the lake of fire, my boss was even named Michael as was predicted about ten years ago, the one who told me what my bosses name would be told me that I was the devil because I rewrote my soul contract and agreed to go to the lake of fire and he knew he was going to meet me and apparently nobody has rewrote their soul contract before.

I assure you, what you were told is nonsense. There is no such thing as a ‘soul contract’ or any validity to an agreement to go to any lake of fire. You should not worry about this or waste any more of your life worrying about this or whether you are the devil. You are not doomed.

Really, you should discuss this with a qualified person, perhaps a priest or counselor, who can help you through this ordeal.

 

[johnvee84]

I assure you, what you were told is nonsense. There is no such thing as a ‘soul contract’ or any validity to an agreement to go to any lake of fire. And you are not the Devil either. Just forget this silliness and don’t waste any more of your life worrying about it. You are not doomed.

This is why I don’t tell the story.

 

[Thomas_White]

This is why I don’t tell the story.

I understand. Do you truly want out of your dilemma? That is the first question to ask yourself. If the answer is ‘Yes’, then what follows is that something has to change. If you resist this, it would seem there is no way out and it becomes a self-fulfilled prophesy.

Really, you should discuss this with a competent professionalal if you truly seek a solution. It could be a priest or other qualified person.

 

[Marie5890]

I understand. Do you truly want out of your dilemma? That is the first question to ask yourself. If the answer is ‘Yes’, then what follows is that something has to change. If you resist this, it would seem there is no way out and it becomes a self-fulfilled prophesy.

Really, you should discuss this with a competent professionalal if you truly seek a solution. It could be a priest or other qualified person.

I whole heartedly agree with this.

If you truly are desirous of getting out of this, then you need to seek a qualified and authentic professional.

You are not doomed. Not by a long shot. There are steps that you can take. It’s up to you and your free will.

 

[johnvee84]

I whole heartedly agree with this.

If you truly are desirous of getting out of this, then you need to seek a qualified and authentic professional.

You are not doomed. Not by a long shot. There are steps that you can take. It’s up to you and your free will.

I have tried priests, I begin by testing them with questions that I have answers to, many of them when asked can’t even tell me what God is… When asked about hell one even said, and I quote “we don’t do the whole hell thing here”. I tried a variety of religions (including catholic) and they have been little help.

Now don’t get me wrong, I have tried DESERATELY to find help over this past 2 years and have found none.

What I did find was that all of these priests I spoke to (though unable to help me), were old men, some things they would say made sense, but very little… Mostly they would give advice by turning to the Bible and quoting scripture, but when asked what it meant they could not give me answers which made much sense, if any at all.

I should note though that one in particular (a catholic priest) held very similar views to me and was very helpful, I believe I was destined to meet him, and I had the uncanny ability to somehow know seconds beforehand answers he would give, this happened several times in our conversation. His closing statement he gave was: “I believe there is hope for you”… He emphasized the word hope, meaning if I believe there is hope there will be hope. Unfortunately the devil uses me as a playground and I feel hopeless.

I have tried mental help and they basically throw pills at me…

I recall the little pamphlets from sunday services (my parents went occasionally) that had the little man walking the “path of destruction” with the small side roads labeled “faith”, “hope”, “love”, etc, I feel like that little man.

 

[johnvee84]

No. ‘A dark night of the soul’ has a specific spiritual meaning. It occurs when a very spiritually advanced person loses his or her sense of a spiritual presence. It is called a ‘dry’ period. It definitely doers not mean they are doomed or are clinically depressed. Those are both differnt issues.

Feeling one is convinced they are doomed Is nevertheless a dark period, just not what a ‘dark night of the soul’ means. Why do you believe you are doomed? It is not a Catholic belief that one is destined to eternal condemnation.

So catholics don’t believe in hell?

 

[Marie5890]

I sense you are now going off on tangents from your original post.

What you are experience is not a Dark Night.

Sounds like you are experience confusion and you are searching for answers. Sounds like you have some issues that need to be addressed by competent health professionals as well.

No one here is qualified in that area.

Life can be very difficult. No one is immune to that. No one. Having hope in God does not mean those difficulties go away. There is no magic wand, there is no magical solutions.

We have hope that God will see us thru those difficult times, and difficult times can be brutal, and that we will be saved in the next life.

Will be praying for you.

 

[Marie5890]

So catholics don’t believe in hell?

That is not what he said. He said “no one is destined for eternal damnation”

You seem to have the belief that you are destined for it. This is not Catholic teaching.
Hell exists, but God does not create anyone to be destined to go there

 

[WilT]

I sense you are now going off on tangents from your original post.

What you are experience is not a Dark Night.

Sounds like you are experience confusion and you are searching for answers. Sounds like you have some issues that need to be addressed by competent health professionals as well.

No one here is qualified in that area.

Life can be very difficult. No one is immune to that. No one. Having hope in God does not mean those difficulties go away. There is no magic wand, there is no magical solutions.

We have hope that God will see us thru those difficult times, and difficult times can be brutal, and that we will be saved in the next life.

Will be praying for you.

 

[WilT]

My 2 cents tells me that you are searching for the Truth in your life. Stop looking into all these things that won’t help you. You are here now touching upon the Truth through Christ in the Catholic Church. Let go, (of your needs and desires) and let God guide you. Get to know God through Jesus by getting to know the Bible and become, and stay, as a Catholic. You need a sturdy foundation in your life and you have found it in the Catholic Church. Jesus promises “I will not leave you orphaned” He will be with you and teach you things of the Father. I doesn’t mean all your needs will be fulfilled (because your focus is no longer on you but on God) but that you will be doing the things God intended for you to do while on Earth. Then you will experience a sense of purpose and JOY in this trying life, and YOU will feel God!!! Blessing to you on you journey.

 

[tskrobacz]

I am currently experiencing the dark night of the soul, and have been for more than 2 years now.

The first thing I need to say is this is hell, suffering has become second nature, and happiness from my old way of life is something I want to forget existed.

The second thing I want to point out is this dark night was brought on by meeting, and running, from my twin flame (a belief I’m not sure is held by catholics).

Now to give a little background on myself:
I never believed in God, it was just a word that held no significance, as was heaven, hell, the devil, faith, soul, spirit… They were just words.
I spent my life blind… While not particularly harmful to others, I was not particularly sensitive to others either. I liken my old way of existence to that of a caterpillar which has now transitioned to a cocoon state. Upon entering the dark night I quickly lost everything, all possessions, my apartment, my job, even my clothing, as I had given up and let everything fall apart when the dark night began.
I then spent much of my time homeless and wandering aimless and lost, wishing for death much of the time.

Will this end? Will I ever be happy again? I did some research and found that the dark night doesn’t end for some in this life or the next and I fear I may be one of those unfortunate ones…

I’m sorry for your present struggles. Hell is often described as the only place without walls. Walls are the nature of things and help us to navigate towards the light. The one guarantee from Jesus is this…Seek, and ye SHALL find. The dark night is a place where having a spiritual director or sponsor (12 step programs) is often critical to give you the support to persist and to be patient. With the help of another you can discover where the walls are and in so doing, where and who you are. May God grant you strength on your journey.

 

[Thomas_White]

So catholics don’t believe in hell?

A primary reason I have commented in this thread is that it did not seem to me that the questions asked were really issues concerning ‘a dark night of the soul’. The concept has a specific spiritual meaning. As I mentioned in an earlier comment, clinical depression is a different issue. That was all I was willing to say. But the thread as progressed and perhaps I should now say a bit more.

I do have a degree in clinical psychology. Since I sensed something other than ‘a dark night of the soul was likely involved, I decided to comment and suggested that those asking questions might do well to seek professional help. This was not an uniformed suggestion, but I held back since this forum is not the appropriate place for a discussion of these types of issues. Beyond that, in any forum it is only appropriate to discuss these issues in a general way and not with respect to an individual’s unique situation. There are ethical considerations involved. It is why seeking professional help was suggested.

The etiology (causation) of clinical depression is well understood. It involves the physiology of the central nervous system–neurons, synapses, neurotransmitters and how and why anti-depressive selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors (SSRI’s) work. The brain is a physical organ and together with the central nervous system it is a part of human physiology. Anti-depressives treat a physical anomaly–depression–just like aspirin treats a headache and insulin diabetes. Anti-depressant medications are often effective in treating clinical depression.

The ‘dark night of the soul’ and clinical depression is not the same thing. Not only that, your situation may involve a different issue altogether from clinical or major depression, which I thought was more of an issue for the original OP.

It is not that Catholics do not believe in Hell. What Catholics do not believe in is predestination. There is free will. In some sense, this applies to your situation. You have the free will to seek professional help if you truly want to solve your problem. Spirituality is quite often bound up in various psychological issues, but it is also typically not the cause of what is a medical problem. This forum is not the place for discussion of what is likely not at its core a spiritual issue at all. But you need not continue to despair. I again suggest you seek professional help.

 

[johnvee84]

A primary reason I have commented in this thread is that it did not seem to me that the questions asked were really issues concerning ‘a dark night of the soul’. The concept has a specific spiritual meaning. As I mentioned in an earlier comment, clinical depression is a different issue. That was all I was willing to say. But the thread as progressed and perhaps I should now say a bit more.

I do have a degree in clinical psychology. Since I sensed something other than ‘a dark night of the soul was likely involved, I decided to comment and suggested that those asking questions might do well to seek professional help. This was not an uniformed suggestion, but I held back since this forum is not the appropriate place for a discussion of these types of issues. Beyond that, in any forum it is only appropriate to discuss these issues in a general way and not with respect to an individual’s unique situation. There are ethical considerations involved. It is why seeking professional help was suggested.

The etiology (causation) of clinical depression is well understood. It involves the physiology of the central nervous system–neurons, synapses, neurotransmitters and how and why anti-depressive selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors (SSRI’s) work. The brain is a physical organ and together with the central nervous system it is a part of human physiology. Anti-depressives treat a physical anomaly–depression–just like aspirin treats a headache and insulin diabetes. Anti-depressant medications are often effective in treating clinical depression.

The ‘dark night of the soul’ and clinical depression is not the same thing. Not only that, your situation may involve a different issue altogether from clinical or major depression, which I thought was more of an issue for the original OP.

It is not that Catholics do not believe in Hell. What Catholics do not believe in is predestination. There is free will. In some sense, this applies to your situation. You have the free will to seek professional help if you truly want to solve your problem. Spirituality is quite often bound up in various psychological issues, but it is also typically not the cause of what is a medical problem. This forum is not the place for discussion of what is likely not at its core a spiritual issue at all. But you need not continue to despair. I again suggest you seek professional help.

It is true I have had problems with depression most of my life, but this is different.

Depression for me was a lack of interest in things I usually enjoyed doing, a feeling of “whats the point of it all? We just die in the end,” sleeping in so I didn’t have to go through the motions of daily life, distancing myself from friends and family, having an aloof attitude towards life, etc.

But this is different, I feel as if I am dead and not part of humanity, I feel wretched. what makes it especially maddening is noticing strange synchronicities happening often in my life, as if my life is not predetermined, similar to deja vu.

 

[Thomas_White]

It is true I have had problems with depression most of my life, but this is different.

what makes it especially maddening is noticing strange synchronicities happening often in my life, as if my life is not predetermined, similar to deja vu.

Did you mean to say “not predetermined”? Why is this sense of synchronicity so maddening for you? There are good reasons for feeling that things are often not mere coincidences, and it is a legitimate issue in both science (quantum mechanics) and religion. I often feel this way too. It’s really a question of awareness of it and a realization that there are things going on we don’t understand. It just that not everyone, or maybe most people, don’t have this awareness, or at least not to the extent you seem to have it.

This by itself does not mean anything is abnormal here. More than likely you are an extraordinarily sensitive person.

 

[johnvee84]

Did you mean to say “not predetermined”? Why is this sense of synchronicity so maddening for you? There are good reasons for feeling that things are often not mere coincidences, and it is a legitimate issue in both science (quantum mechanics) and religion. I often feel this way too. It’s really a question of awareness of it and a realization that there are things going on we don’t understand. It just that not everyone, or maybe most people, don’t have this awareness, or at least not to the extent you seem to have it.

This by itself does not mean anything is abnormal here. More than likely you are an extraordinarily sensitive person.

Lol, I meant IS predetermined, sorry.

But why this past 2 years?

I will try to give an example.

I had the sudden uncanny urge to take the public bus one day to visit a good friend I had not seen since this “dark night” or depression began, something was telling me I had to visit him, I can’t explain it… I was unsure if I had enough money to take the bus, and something said “you have just enough for the bus,” so I took out my wallet and had the EXACT change I needed for the bus (3.50).

I found this very strange. I knew then that I had to go. I walked to the main road from the place i was staying (as I was staying at my mothers for a short time), and began to wait for the bus… And it didn’t go by… I thought " I’m going to go to that house and ask them the time because the bus shouldn’t be this late," so I went to the nearest house and rang the doorbell and waited.

Then something told me “the bus is going to go by as soon as the door is answered,”
I waited.

Someone came to the door and the bus went by just as they come to answer the door.

I knew I HAD to go, I had exactly enough to take the bus, I knew I would miss the bus AS SOON as the door was answered.

This is just one scenario. I have things like this that keep happening, sometimes I purposely try to AVOID doing what my inner voice tells me to do just to see if I can somehow change “fate”, but then things will continue to happen like this telling me I did what I was supposed to do when I THOUGHT I was doing what I wasn’t supposed to do.

It is not something I can actively turn on or off, during these periods I have a heightened feeling, its maddening because I try to sometimes “get ahead” of it, but then it becomes a self fulfilled prophecy, by doing everything I can to prevent it from happening i make it happen.

Its almost as if no matter what i do, even when PURPOSELY avoiding the little voice, it still comes back to say “you are EXACTLY where I knew you would be, and have done EXACTLY what I knew you would do.”

 

[WilT]

"

In your scenario jonvee,84 we all have premonitions as humans and as Christians. God could have easily spoken to you about the missing bus part and/or it could have just as easily have been that the bus could have been running a few minutes late. It’s all part of life. No special powers or should it be such a great event in our lives. It’s just a fact of life that not all things go as planned and yet it’s frustrating but we must move forward in life and chalk it up as a learning moment, that is not to turn away from the bus stop, next time, when a bus is expected to show at that hour and minute.

 

[Thomas_White]

Originally posted by johnvee84

I do not know why this would be occurring for you during only the last two years. But I also often have similar events happen, and I’ve always considered it as intuition. This is normal, and some persons are more in tune with intuition that others. But I’m convinced it is something than can be meaningful. It is a feeling, or awareness of something not yet known, and it often turns out that the intuition is correct. It could sometimes involve mere coincidence, and we have no way of knowing with certainty which was involved. That it was intuition is sometimes pretty clear.

The psychologist Carl Jung became very interested in the concept of synchronicity, and in fact he coined the word. He defined it as the “acausal connection of two or more psycho-physic phenomena”. It means two or more physic events have no cause/effect relationship. That is complex and contrary to the laws of physics. But Carl Jung is a major figure in the history of psychology. Jung thought the ‘I Ching’ involved synchronicity and also that the concept of déjà vu was related to synchronicity. Jung became deeply interesting in the study of Eastern religions, particularly Buddhism. So there was for Carl Jung a very significant spiritual element in synchronicity.

This does not involve abnormal behavior, and it is a legitimate topic. It has been noted on the thread that predestination is not a Catholic belief and that one has a free will. While Catholics, including me, believe this is true, it is not quite so simple. The Catholic teaching is also that God is Omniscient. He knows all that has ever occurred in Creation and all that ever will—he is all-knowing. And He is all knowing about us too. While this is not predestination, since we have free will, God nevertheless knows what we will do and what will occur for us. So God knows the future and our future too. We believe He is not creating it for us or that He is directly intervening in it by determining what will happen. Nevertheless, He knows. What is mysterious is that at times perhaps intuition reveals some knowledge of this to us. It is firmly believed that God and the saints will intercede for us through our prayers, and that this can alter what would otherwise happen for us in the future.

As I imagine you already know, there is much information available about synchronicity. Perhaps you are a very sensitive and intuitive person. If so, there are positive ways to deal with it. It is not a reason for despair. Perhaps you are here on the Catholic Answers Forum for some related reason and that this is no coincidence either. If this is so, I would suggest you explore this further and learn the meaning of why you are here seeking help. As noted, it is perhaps no coincidence.

The concept of synchronicity is not itself at all contrary to Catholic belief or religious or spiritual belief in general. There is a very long tradition of revelation that could be understood in this very context.

 

[thenobes]

Lol, I meant IS predetermined, sorry.

But why this past 2 years?

I will try to give an example.

I had the sudden uncanny urge to take the public bus one day to visit a good friend I had not seen since this “dark night” or depression began, something was telling me I had to visit him, I can’t explain it… I was unsure if I had enough money to take the bus, and something said “you have just enough for the bus,” so I took out my wallet and had the EXACT change I needed for the bus (3.50).

I found this very strange. I knew then that I had to go. I walked to the main road from the place i was staying (as I was staying at my mothers for a short time), and began to wait for the bus… And it didn’t go by… I thought " I’m going to go to that house and ask them the time because the bus shouldn’t be this late," so I went to the nearest house and rang the doorbell and waited.

Then something told me “the bus is going to go by as soon as the door is answered,”
I waited.

Someone came to the door and the bus went by just as they come to answer the door.

I knew I HAD to go, I had exactly enough to take the bus, I knew I would miss the bus AS SOON as the door was answered.

This is just one scenario. I have things like this that keep happening, sometimes I purposely try to AVOID doing what my inner voice tells me to do just to see if I can somehow change “fate”, but then things will continue to happen like this telling me I did what I was supposed to do when I THOUGHT I was doing what I wasn’t supposed to do.

It is not something I can actively turn on or off, during these periods I have a heightened feeling, its maddening because I try to sometimes “get ahead” of it, but then it becomes a self fulfilled prophecy, by doing everything I can to prevent it from happening i make it happen.

Its almost as if no matter what i do, even when PURPOSELY avoiding the little voice, it still comes back to say “you are EXACTLY where I knew you would be, and have done EXACTLY what I knew you would do.”

Hi John,
I’m not sure if this might apply in your case, but it is believed by neuroscientists that deja vu is due to the two halves of our brain apprehending an event at different times. What happens is that the one apprehending first sends the information to the other, which then apprehends the events after being told of it by the other half. Thus the mind believes it has experienced the event before when it has only been registered by the two halves of the brain at different times.
So your actions might not be as “predetermined” as you might believe. You might just have a left to right brain communication problem.

peace
steve

 

[Thomas_White]

I have things like this that keep happening, sometimes I purposely try to AVOID doing what my inner voice tells me to do just to see if I can somehow change “fate”…during these periods I have a heightened feeling…

johnvee84–I only now had the opportunity to closely read your comment.

Could you mention a little more about this inner voice? It sounds like it might be more than an urge or a feeling—such as what a person would sense or feel from intuition. It is a voice you hear in your mind that tells you what to do?

And what is it you mean by a ‘heightened feeling’? Could you also explain this a bit?

 

[johnvee84]

johnvee84–I only now had the opportunity to closely read your comment.

Could you mention a little more about this inner voice? It sounds like it might be more than an urge or a feeling—such as what a person would sense or feel from intuition. It is a voice you hear in your mind that tells you what to do?

And what is it you mean by a ‘heightened feeling’? Could you also explain this a bit?

The same voice I’ve always had, it just seems more prominent these past 2 years, my inner guide I guess I would call it, intuition maybe. (some people would call it a mental disorder, its not)

The heightened feeling is difficult to explain, nothing seems to change in my surroundings, its similar to the feeling of being in a sudden life or death situation, minus the adrenaline rush, its like suddenly I’m awake as if I had been walking in a stupor before, this is when the strange things begin happening like the inner voice/intuition, I become more “keen” and sometimes almost answer questions before they’re asked and stuff like that. It’s almost as if some part of me when this happens is moving faster than everything else and the rest of me can’t keep up.