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Noahzark
Guest
Hi I am needing help with the correct order of these two phrases when combined as right now I read it as " from the depths of hell by the grace of God ". I apologize if this is the wrong section thanks kindly Noah.
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ProVobis
Guest
I believe you have the gist of it.
Translations are an art, not a science.
Translations are an art, not a science.
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LiamQ
Guest
Wouldn’t that be something more like De profundis inferni per gratiam Dei?
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pianistclare
Guest
Is there supposed to be a comma in there?
The grace of God…the depths of hell
The grace of God…the depths of hell
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Noahzark
Guest
Heh thanks for the replies although I’m almost a bit more confused now.
The phrases alone I believe are this…DEI GRATIAS…meaning …by the grace of god (or kings in the context)
…DE PROFUNDI INFERNI…from the depths of hell…( de profundi also was from the Lions pits)…
But when you put the phrases together the plural changes and the order is somewhat backwards yet I think??? Still reads …FROM THE DEPTHS OF HELL BY THE GRACE OF GOD…
The phrases alone I believe are this…DEI GRATIAS…meaning …by the grace of god (or kings in the context)
…DE PROFUNDI INFERNI…from the depths of hell…( de profundi also was from the Lions pits)…
But when you put the phrases together the plural changes and the order is somewhat backwards yet I think??? Still reads …FROM THE DEPTHS OF HELL BY THE GRACE OF GOD…
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pianistclare
Guest
Yes, which makes no sense. That’s why I believe there is something missing.
Perhaps Father Ruggero can clarify…
Is this a homework assignment, or an except form some document. Context is helpful.
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Inquiringperson
Guest
Actually, I have a friend who teaches Latin, so if it is a homework assignment or an excerpt from something, please share with me, and I’ll ask my friend about it. (Although, if Father Ruggero gets here first, please do help, good Padre).
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ohsnapitslennon
Guest
Salve Noahzark!
I think you’ve got the gist of it. Although, remember, Latin word order doesn’t matter because the endings tell us the word functions
“de” takes the ablative and translates as from, concerning, or about.
“gratia, gratiae f. grace” is in the ablative singular, although it looks like it is being used as ablative of instrument here so we can translate it “with/by” Although, you can pair it with “de” but it doesn’t make much sense.
“deus, dei m. god” is in the genitive, so he’s the possessor or we can translate it “of ____”
“profundus, profundi m. depths” is in the ablative or dative PLURAL, so we can pair it with “de”
“infernus, inferni m. hell” which can be the genitive singular, nominative and locative plural (well, locative only has certain words that take it…not sure about Ecclesiastical)
Your best translation, in Catholic context, would be:
“From the depths of hell, by the grace of God”
If you can give me the full context, I could help you much better! Although, it seems you’ve got the translation. Did I clear up your confusion?
Vale, Lennon
I think you’ve got the gist of it. Although, remember, Latin word order doesn’t matter because the endings tell us the word functions
“de” takes the ablative and translates as from, concerning, or about.
“gratia, gratiae f. grace” is in the ablative singular, although it looks like it is being used as ablative of instrument here so we can translate it “with/by” Although, you can pair it with “de” but it doesn’t make much sense.
“deus, dei m. god” is in the genitive, so he’s the possessor or we can translate it “of ____”
“profundus, profundi m. depths” is in the ablative or dative PLURAL, so we can pair it with “de”
“infernus, inferni m. hell” which can be the genitive singular, nominative and locative plural (well, locative only has certain words that take it…not sure about Ecclesiastical)
Your best translation, in Catholic context, would be:
“From the depths of hell, by the grace of God”
If you can give me the full context, I could help you much better! Although, it seems you’ve got the translation. Did I clear up your confusion?
Vale, Lennon
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ohsnapitslennon
Guest
I think you’re just confused by “deo gratias” and “gratia dei.”
“deo gratias” usually translates to “thanks be to God!” and is using the accusative of exclamation. The accusative cannoy express by/with.
in “gratia dei” gratia uses the ablative which translates to “by/with” even without a preposition.
Make sense?
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Noahzark
Guest
Yes it does make sense although grammar isn’t one of my strong points lol. This is for a tattoo hence the importance of spelling and proper order.So I’m thinking either of these placements will work or is one more accurate than the other?
DE GRATIA DEI PROFUNDIS INFERNI …?
OR
DE PROFUNDI(S)? INFERNI DEI GRATIAS…?
Thanks kindly.
DE GRATIA DEI PROFUNDIS INFERNI …?
OR
DE PROFUNDI(S)? INFERNI DEI GRATIAS…?
Thanks kindly.
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ohsnapitslennon
Guest
Personally, I think a better translation of “from the depths of hell by the grace of God” would be better translated as:
“ex profundis inferni, gratia dei”
“ex” implies “out of” where as “de” more/less implies “down from/from”
Although, I suppose either preposition would work. I personally just think ex would be best.
The order would probably be “ex/de profundis inferni, gratia dei”
Another question. Do you want a singular grace or plural?
If you want it plural, it would be…
“gratiis dei” which translates to “with/by the graces of God”
“ex profundis inferni, gratia dei”
“ex” implies “out of” where as “de” more/less implies “down from/from”
Although, I suppose either preposition would work. I personally just think ex would be best.
The order would probably be “ex/de profundis inferni, gratia dei”
Another question. Do you want a singular grace or plural?
If you want it plural, it would be…
“gratiis dei” which translates to “with/by the graces of God”
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pianistclare
Guest
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Noahzark
Guest
I think singular of grace works well although graces is also true. The EX instead of DE also sounds good and if it makes more sense to use that’s helps me a lot. Thanks kindly for your insight and help.
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ProVobis
Guest
According to a book I read on the subject once, “gratias” (thanks) was the Roman expression. It was Christianized to a singular “gratia” meaning “grace.”
Note: “gratia” is also used as a “for the sake of” marker. MGM, for example has the motto “Ars gratia artis” (art for the sake of art) Its usage is different.
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Inquiringperson
Guest
If you’re doing a tattoo, here are other suggestions. “Introibo ad altare Dei” (I approach the altar of God) My brother has a seminarian friend with that tattoo,
Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos? (If God is for us, who can be against us)?
Deus aut Nihil (God or Nothing, at least, I think that’s how you translate it. Ohsnapitslennon is the Latin teacher friend I was referring too, so maybe Ohsnapitslennon can help me out here?)
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ohsnapitslennon
Guest
Yes, the Roman phrase was “gratias tibi ago” or “Thanks to you”
Also, yes, most Latin words will have more than one meaning.
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ohsnapitslennon
Guest
Okay, so your tattoo translation, from me anyway, is
ex profundis inferni, gratias Dei.
Hope it works
I also offer one last differentiation:
ex profundis inferni, PER GRATIAM Dei
PER GRATIAM is “through the grace”
Let me know!
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