Help: Vatican document on homosexuals

[HOLYHEARTS]

PUSHKIN: The document you are seeking was not a Vatican 2 document.
It was a Moral Theological Declaration or Decree by Bl. Pope John XXIII, entitled:

“Careful Selection and Training of the Candidates For the States of Perfection and
Sacred Orders”

 

[TrueLight]

As for #1, no one who is engaging in sexual acts should be allowed entry regardless of whether it is homosexual or heterosexual acts.

Is there a length of time that one needs to be chaste to not be considered to be engaging in sexual acts?

In other words if Bob has been struggling with sleeping with his ex girlfriend on and off and has resisted the temptation for 6 months, would he possibly be disqualified?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Is there a length of time that one needs to be chaste to not be considered to be engaging in sexual acts?

In other words if Bob has been struggling with sleeping with his ex girlfriend on and off and has resisted the temptation for 6 months, would he possibly be disqualified?

As with most vocational things it is up to the group. Some might require more time, others might say 6 months is fine.

Vocational discernment is not that black and white except for the out right impediments listed in canon law which we can see SSA is not one of them. It would be easy for the pope to modify canon law to include such but as he has not we can see it is not to be an absolute restriction as some might want.

 

[DasErlibnis]

Some dioceses and religious orders will ask that you be celibate for 2 years before entering seminary. That is fair.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Some dioceses and religious orders will ask that you be celibate for 2 years before entering seminary. That is fair.

Just a note on terms.

Celibacy is the state of not marrying.

Chastity is the state of living ones life according to your state in life. A single person not engaging in sex, a married person only engaging in sex with their spouse.

So all candidates for dioceses and religious communities must be celibate (not married) and most require sometime of living chastely (not engaging in sexual acts).

 

[DasErlibnis]

ByzCat,

Even the married can be chaste, and they can also be celibate. And Mother Mary was all 3. Married, celibate, and, chaste.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

ByzCat,

Even the married can be chaste, and they can also be celibate. And Mother Mary was all 3. Married, celibate, and, chaste.

I am sorry but these are not the way the terms are defined by the Church.

Again, celibate is the state of not marrying, chastity is living within the state you are in.

Mary was not celibate, she was married.

 

[brotherjoe]

God calls, we hear, we discern, and through prayer we respond. The Bishop’s role is to oversee, and discern, and in Her wisdom, to affirm that a calling does or does not exist for religious or priestly life.

If you are seeing a female bishop on the matter then I don’t know what church you belong to.

 

[DasErlibnis]

If you are seeing a female bishop on the matter then I don’t know what church you belong to.

Ah. Lol, it was supposed to read, “the Church in her wisdom…”

Thanks for the correct.

As for ByzCat…

You say you got Official definitions from the Church, that’s fine. Quote your source, I don’t mind being corrected.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

As for ByzCat…

Not to be nitpicky or anything but the user name is ByzCath.

Or Brother David will do.

You say you got Official definitions from the Church, that’s fine. Quote your source, I don’t mind being corrected.

This was taught in my novitiate during the classes on the Vows.

This is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church states;
2348 All the baptized are called to chastity. The Christian has "put on Christ,"the model for all chastity. All Christ’s faithful are called to lead a chaste life in keeping with their particular states of life. At the moment of his Baptism, the Christian is pledged to lead his affective life in chastity.

2349 “People should cultivate [chastity] in the way that is suited to their state of life. Some profess virginity or consecrated celibacy which enables them to give themselves to God alone with an undivided heart in a remarkable manner. Others live in the way prescribed for all by the moral law, whether they are married or single.” Married people are called to live conjugal chastity; others practice chastity in continence:

There are three forms of the virtue of chastity: the first is that of spouses, the second that of widows, and the third that of virgins. We do not praise any one of them to the exclusion of the others. . . . This is what makes for the richness of the discipline of the Church.

2350 Those who are engaged to marry are called to live chastity in continence. They should see in this time of testing a discovery of mutual respect, an apprenticeship in fidelity, and the hope of receiving one another from God. They should reserve for marriage the expressions of affection that belong to married love. They will help each other grow in chastity.

While the definition is not explicit in these paragraphs I think one can figure it out.

Here is what the Catholic Encyclopedia has to say;

Celibacy of the Clergy

Celibacy is the renunciation of marriage implicitly or explicitly made, for the more perfect observance of chastity, by all those who receive the Sacrament of Orders in any of the higher grades.

Hope that help.

 

[DasErlibnis]

Good to know. I will answer accordingly for now on.

Thanks ByzCatH

 

[DasErlibnis]

So… as I said, Celibacy is not YET defined by the Catholic Church as a state in life. It is the voluntary practice of continence for the unmarried person just as conjugal chastity is the pratice for those married persons.

More explicitly, it is ‘professed’ continence. Continence is the practice of chastity for the unmarried person. Celibacy is professed continence, although it does not necessarily mean a “state” in life.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

So… as I said, Celibacy is not YET defined by the Catholic Church as a state in life. It is the voluntary practice of continence for the unmarried person just as conjugal chastity is the pratice for those married persons.

More explicitly, it is ‘professed’ continence. Continence is the practice of chastity for the unmarried person. Celibacy is professed continence, although it does not necessarily mean a “state” in life.

I am not sure what you are trying to say here but . . .

Religious take a Vow of Chastity. Only secular priests and permanent deacons who are unmarried make a promise of celibacy.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

So… as I said, Celibacy is not YET defined by the Catholic Church as a state in life. It is the voluntary practice of continence for the unmarried person just as conjugal chastity is the pratice for those married persons.

I did a little more research. . .

Anyway I think you are wrong on celibacy not being defined by the Church.

Please see Pope John Paul II’s Apostolic Exhortation Familiaris Consortio.

Specifically this part from paragraph 11.

Christian revelation recognizes two specific ways of realizing the vocation of the human person in its entirety, to love: marriage and virginity or celibacy. Either one is, in its own proper form, an actuation of the most profound truth of man, of his being “created in the image of God.”

Paragraph 85 speaks of those without a family and acknowledges that some live a single life by choice.

 

[DasErlibnis]

I am not sure what you are trying to say here but . . .

Religious take a Vow of Chastity. Only secular priests and permanent deacons who are unmarried make a promise of celibacy.

It’s simple, not complicated. It doesn’t need overthinking or redundant definitions or excessive verbage.

I’m not married, I’m also not a priest. Yet, I’ve made the vow to remain celibate, not that I needed to because as a single person, well…that’s what I’m supposed to do anyway, I don’t get no cookies for it. There ain’t no prize! I’m just another “worthless servant” barely doing what I should be doing anyway. It ain’t like someone is asking me to go above and beyond in some great and significant way. No, this is just basic, and hardly profitable.

If you’re only argument is semantics, then there is no argument. Chastity for the unmarried person means celibacy, end of discussion. But even some married persons make vows not to have sex also and so these vows have nothing to do with chastity, this happens on several occasions in the old testament! So they remain celibate if they were not already virgins.

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid

There is no reason to make celibacy sound glorious or exclusive. It’s just abstinence. And if you ain’t married, you should be doing that anyway.

Here’s a curious venture though, what is the etymology of the word?? Maybe there’s a better clue there than the arbitrary definition from some random online glossary that has its own agenda.

But at the end if the day, there’s no excuse for big words to be creating burdens of thought and prayer and causing anxiety for some people. Dumb it down, lighten the burden. Use the simple “Jesus” vocabulary and don’t try to over-define words, its annoying.

“Chastity is for non-ordained, celibacy is for the ordained.” It’s not intelligible. Its the same doggone thing!

“There is something low-bred about being too specific” - Socrates