Help: what if a non-Christian says doctrine doesn't matter?

[poptown]

Hey everyone. Recently I have been trying to evangelize people and tell them about Catholic faith, as well as their Protestant doctrinal errors … But many people tell me that they don’t care because they think the Gospel is to believe in Christ, to acknowledge the sins (and maybe be obedient to Christ’s Commandments) and nothing more. Other doctrines are not so important in terms of influencing the salvation. Therefore, which church one chooses, whether or not one believes in “once saved always saved”, “total depravity”, “unconditional damnation” or other things do not affect salvation. All that matters is to do what Gospel says: to repent, to believe (and maybe to do good works).

What do you guys think? Do you think this can be a good reason for not considering the Catholic Church? Do you think faith in doctrine matters for salvation, or not? All answers are welcome! Thank you!

 

[Edward_H]

One approach to evangelizing is direct and intellectual. We need to be prepared, and you are already preparing yourself for this in your formation.

This approach often falls short, no matter how well you know your doctrine or how well you engage with them. But you need to know your faith very well, nevertheless.

Another approach to consider taking is through sincere, longer term friendship. It’s called sometimes the apostolate of friendship. Here…you continue to learn about your faith, in addition you develop a strong and lively interior life of daily prayer, frequent reception of the Eucharist, frequent, sincere Confession, etc. But you don’t evangelize directly…no confrontation.

So instead you build up a few friends…these friends will slowly be attracted to the Holy Spirit living in you. You will have very natural conversations about many topics…life, work, family, vacation, beauty, maybe truth, etc. Over time your friends will sense or see a change in you…it’s the Holy Spirit overflowing in you. So without any sort of frontal intellectual assault with Catechsim in hand, you instead be their friend, asking the Holy Spirit to deepen your love for your friends, and to ready you to help them, whenever the Holy Spirit thinks it’s a good time…then very slowly,gently, naturally, you will begin to have other conversations with your friends.

This approach works.

Some say we should never try to evangelize someone who we aren’t friends with. And our friends that we already have shouldn’t be hit over the head with our new passion for God…but instead should sense it developing in you.

This approach may not give you the thrill of winning a convert…or the pride. ; >. Instead it’s a more humble approach. Humility, naturalness, friendship, gradualness.

Believe me…they will gradually start conversations you never would have dreamed of.

 

[poptown]

Sorry I made a mistake in title … I mean what if a non-Catholic Christian, not a non-Christian … sorry …

 

[SaintPatrick333]

Hey everyone. Recently I have been trying to evangelize people and tell them about Catholic faith, as well as their Protestant doctrinal errors … But many people tell me that they don’t care because they think the Gospel is to believe in Christ, to acknowledge the sins (and maybe be obedient to Christ’s Commandments) and nothing more. Other doctrines are not so important in terms of influencing the salvation. Therefore, which church one chooses, whether or not one believes in “once saved always saved”, “total depravity”, “unconditional damnation” or other things do not affect salvation. All that matters is to do what Gospel says: to repent, to believe (and maybe to do good works).

What do you guys think? Do you think this can be a good reason for not considering the Catholic Church? Do you think faith in doctrine matters for salvation, or not? All answers are welcome! Thank you!

Funny because the Gospel tells them to go to the Catholic Church to receive Christ in the Eucharist. The trick is getting them to read Scriptures with the only true context, being the Catholic context. Many of them just accept whatever their pastor tells them or read the bible personally and whatever they “get” out of it is God “speaking” to them through the “living word” and all that nonsense.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Why should I hold to the doctrine that says doctrine doesn’t matter?

 

[MarcoPolo]

Also

*2 John 1:9 Any one who goes ahead and does not abide in **** does not have God; he who abides in the doctrine has both the Father and the Son.

Titus 2:1 But as for you, teach what befits sound doctrine.

Romans 16:17 I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of those who create dissensions and difficulties, in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught*

If the Apostles think it matters why wouldn’t these non-Catholic Christians?

 

[poptown]

Also

*2 John 1:9 Any one who goes ahead and does not abide in ***** does not have God; he who abides in the doctrine has both the Father and the Son.

Titus 2:1 But as for you, teach what befits sound doctrine.

Romans 16:17 I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of those who create dissensions and difficulties, in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught

If the Apostles think it matters why wouldn’t these non-Catholic Christians?

Thank you so much !!! I love the Romans 16:17-20

I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, but I want you to be wise as to what is good and innocent as to what is evil. The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

Hey everyone. Recently I have been trying to evangelize people and tell them about Catholic faith, as well as their Protestant doctrinal errors … But many people tell me that they don’t care because they think the Gospel is to believe in Christ, to acknowledge the sins (and maybe be obedient to Christ’s Commandments) and nothing more. Other doctrines are not so important in terms of influencing the salvation. Therefore, which church one chooses, whether or not one believes in “once saved always saved”, “total depravity”, “unconditional damnation” or other things do not affect salvation. All that matters is to do what Gospel says: to repent, to believe (and maybe to do good works).

What do you guys think? Do you think this can be a good reason for not considering the Catholic Church? Do you think faith in doctrine matters for salvation, or not? All answers are welcome! Thank you!

This (bolded portion) is in fact an attempt at a doctrine itself.

I would say that it is incorrect to say that doctrine does not matter, though it is correct that knowing the correct doctrine is not strictly speaking necessary for salvation. For example, “once saved always saved” is sometimes presented as “if I say x prayer I am going to heaven no matter what I do afterwards.” A person who honestly believes that may say his prayer then completely turn away from God by putting his own desires above God’s commands and more or less doing what he wants in the “knowledge” that it’s ok because in the end he’ll go to heaven anyway. Such a person may be in trouble. However, a person may also adhere to this false doctrine and follow the law that God has written on his heart and be fine.

So even if knowing the correct doctrine is not strictly speaking required to get into heaven it can be helpful. But aside from that, we ought to want to know the correct doctrine. Doctrine tells us about the relationship between God and man, and in so doing helps to understand and grow closer to God. Christ is the way, the truth, and the life - in particular truth. Whether once saved always saved or similar is actually true tells us something really important about how we relate to God. Seeking truth is part of seeking God.

To deny the importance of doctrine is in some sense to deny (perhaps unwittingly) part of the importance of our relationship with God, since it is doctrine which helps us to grow in understanding of what this relationship is and should be. Which is somewhat ironic, given that the people I have heard trying to downplay doctrine tend to think that in so doing they are emphasizing a “personal relationship with our Lord and Savior.” Which is not to denigrate these people or their sincerity, only to say that God is Truth, and so that to get close to Him is to get close to truth, and it’s doesn’t make sense to talk about growing in a relationship with Truth Himself while saying that truth is unimportant.

 

[Qwestions]

Hi, poptown! Although I don’t disagree with what any of the posters have written, I believe that you should take the comments of Edward H. to heart.

Your enthusiasm is admirable, but if your goal is to win converts to the Catholic faith, I think that you need to consider how best to achieve that goal–a case of plan your work and work your plan, psychologically.

When you were growing up, how did you take it when someone just commented about your thoughts or actions–parents, siblings, teachers, etc.–when you weren’t doing anything necessarily wrong, but simply not what that person critiquing you thought you should be doing? Did it irk you? Even if you kept your thoughts to yourself? Or did you jump right onto the bandwagon they were extolling? When anyone, uninvited, told you what they thought you should be doing or thinking, how favorably impressed were you? Were you eagerly waiting to talk to them again? Or did you dread the thought of their faces?

You really need to “know your stuff” if you engage others in faith conversations when they’re open to discussion. However, if you’ve set about telling them where they’re wrong, as you’ve stated, they’re not likely to be open to much of anything that you have to say. If you’re not careful, you’ll say something to someone well versed in why Catholicism is wrong and that person will pin you to the mat quickly by coming up with things you’ve not even contemplated, and your inability to counter their arguments will make them appear to be the winner of the word/thought contest which you initiated.

Being a good example and contributing to discussion with others your thoughts and reactions to certain situations is more likely to permit your acquaintances to learn about Catholic thought and practices than any amount of pointed evangelism that you attempt. I strictly avoided people at work who were always trying to evangelize to their faith, but there were many non-Catholics with whom I enjoyed discussing many aspects of life in general and faith in particular. Many times a topic would be discussed on breaks and lunch periods for several days.

Did I win any converts? Two “fallen-aways” have partially reverted (not there every Sunday), but no converts yet, to my knowledge. Nonetheless, there are a couple that I’m still hoping will see our way. Meanwhile, it is clear that they now have a respect for the Catholic church, whereas they had none at all–the exact opposite–before our many discussions, and they continue to ask thoughtful questions about the Church.

So often, people who are most vocal about their faith are a pain in the patoot to others because their comments are from a “holier than thou” perch onto which they’ve elevated themselves, and from which they look down on others–a classic, proven way to NOT win friends, nor influence anyone favorably. Be careful, lest you climb that perch!

 

[poptown]

… You really need to “know your stuff” if you engage others in faith conversations when they’re open to discussion. However, if you’ve set about telling them where they’re wrong, as you’ve stated, they’re not likely to be open to much of anything that you have to say. If you’re not careful, you’ll say something to someone well versed in why Catholicism is wrong and that person will pin you to the mat quickly by coming up with things you’ve not even contemplated, and your inability to counter their arguments will make them appear to be the winner of the word/thought contest which you initiated…

Thank you for your great suggestion! I would say Catholicism is hard even just try to defend … So I will accept your suggestion, doing more preparation and develop deeper relationship with others.

However, what really discouraged me is not how, but why. You see, Gospel is to repent, to believe in Christ, to do good works and to be obedient. I think that’s very true. But many Protestants think it’s okay to hold different doctrines (as if nobody other than the Bible itself has the authority of truth). For example, Protestants may think that having Baptism (Eucharistic) is important because it is taught in the Scripture, but how to understand Baptism (Eucharistic) doesn’t really matter, and it shouldn’t, because it doesn’t make sense for one to worry about salvation just because he may misunderstand Baptism (Eucharistic).

What do you think? Thanks again!

 

[kkollwitz]

First off doctrine is important because it was important to Jesus, who argued with Pharisees, Sadducees, priests and scribes. And to Paul, who wrote an awful lot of letters about doctrine; and to the other Epistle-writers as well.

But if you’re going to discuss faith with informed Sola Scripturas, you’ll have to know the Bible pretty much as well as they do. I don’t mean you have to argue (because you don’t), but be able to refer to or quote Scripture that supports Catholicism.

The Bible is way interesting, way Catholic, and growing in Bible knowledge over time is good for Catholics whether they ever evangelize or not.

 

[Qwestions]

Catholics recognize Baptism and the reception of the Holy Eucharist as two separate sacraments, each distinct, one from the other. I must admit that I’m not familiar with the term Baptism, followed by Eucharistic in parentheses, and due to the hour, don’t have time to do a search. Is this a Protestant term? If so, what do you mean by that?

We ARE exhorted to proclaim our faith, and to be our brother’s keeper insofar as helping him to know the difference between errant ways and the ways of Christ, and in some neighborhoods today in the United States, that may be possible. Sadly, I don’t think that’s often true, now. Decades ago, and, certainly, centuries ago, there weren’t so many people, and there weren’t many claims upon their time, other than working to provide the immediate needs of shelter, clothing, and food for themselves and their families. Entertainments or gatherings of peoples in more rural societies were fairly well limited to what they saw of others in those pursuits, as well as in going to a few stores occasionally, to church on Sunday, to funerals, and to an occasional horse race or county fair, as well as interacting in town or school events. People had more opportunity to speak with each other on those few occasions during which they came together, so they had more time for heart-to-heart talks. Our hurried lifestyles of today don’t permit much getting-to-know-you time.

I think, in general, that we can accomplish our goals of clarifying Catholic thought, and, ultimately, winning souls to the Catholic faith, through example and evidence of our lifestyles more quickly than we can by chastising or pointing our how they’re wrong when we see them. However, if they’ve attended an information class, or ASKED for clarification of our beliefs, yes, by all means, do your best! Pull out all the stops!

I do think that Catholics, in general, tend to be more insular. I couldn’t begin to count the times–probably approaching 50–that I’ve been asked to attend church with a Protestant as their guest, or have been given a blanket invitation to attend their church at any time of my choosing–but never once by a Catholic, in the 35 years that I’ve lived in this city. Since frequenting CAF, I have begun to ask others to go to Mass with me. I’ve been very surprised. I’ve extended eleven invitations, and nine times I’ve taken guests with me. What is even more strange is that in none of the Catholic churches that I’ve attended over the last few years have I ever had anyone speak to me unless I initiated the conversation.

There are certain Protestant features that Catholics would do well to adopt, the main one being greeters before and after Mass to welcome unfamiliar faces and to try to include them–also when those people attend fish fries, chicken dinners, Sunday breakfasts, bake sales, church picnics, etc. I’ve certainly not remained a Catholic because of any warmth on the part of Catholics in this city, but in spite of their closed societies!

If you can find a children’s explanatioin of the Mass–especially one from decades ago–to help you understand more of what is behind each part of the Mass, the meaning of the different vestments, and the explanation of the tabernacle, etc., you can readily answer questions of your guests. Be absolutely certain that you explain to them, well in advance, not as you’re rushing up the steps, that they are not eligible to receive Communion, and why, lest they surprise you and try to partake when other communicants go forward.

It will REALLY help if you can find a good Mass guide if you can’t find a child’s explanation, so that they can follow along, while you continually make sure that they understand where on the pages we are. Otherwise, the experience will only add to the Protestant idea that the Mass is so much hocus pocus, a term which came from “Hoc est corpus,” meaning “This is my body.”

 

[Qwestions]

poptown, I’m guessing that your natural enthusiasm for Catholicism, now that you’ve found it, inspires you to tell everyone you know who could benefit–if only they could understand your newly found beliefs. Please don’t lose that enthusiasm! Enthusiasm is contagious, and if others detect it in you, at least a tiny bit will rub off on them. So do let your light shine for others.

I must admit to not understanding all that you’ve said in your posts and I’m still guessing that it’s because I’m not generally familiar with Protestant terminology. I suppose that the Catechism touched upon the meaning of Gospel, but, if so, that was–oomph!–decades ago! My understanding of the Gospels is that they are the collected words describing Christ’s teachings–His Story–Christ’s history–and, as our Monsignor used to say, “The words of the apostles to Go Spell it out for the people in all nations to hear and follow His word; shout it from the mountaintops!” As you might guess, he loved to hear “Go Tell It On the Mountain!”

I may be in error, but I’ve never thought of “repent” and “Gospel” at the same time, although, of course, we learn through the Gospels that repentance is necessary for our salvation. Try not to worry so about the scrambled doctrines and wrong doctrines. I think you’ll be better served, and can better serve God, by concentrating upon how your newly found faith can affect what you do that will enhance your life and the lives of those closest to you. Like ripples in a pond, subtle changes in you will be evident to those you now know to be in error. Reread that really good post by Edward H. There will be many opportunities for you to witness to your old friends, but appropriate or inappropriate timing or words can mean the difference between winning souls and driving them away.

I don’t know if I’ve answered your additional questions or not, but perhaps you now have more food for thought? Best wishes to you!

 

[poptown]

I must admit to not understanding all that you’ve said in your posts and I’m still guessing that it’s because I’m not generally familiar with Protestant terminology. I suppose that the Catechism touched upon the meaning of Gospel, but, if so, that was–oomph!–decades ago! My understanding of the Gospels is that they are the collected words describing Christ’s teachings–His Story–Christ’s history–and, as our Monsignor used to say, “The words of the apostles to Go Spell it out for the people in all nations to hear and follow His word; shout it from the mountaintops!” As you might guess, he loved to hear “Go Tell It On the Mountain!”

Thank you for all what you have said! I don’t deserve such great and detailed answers (as well as many from others)! I am very well encouraged, and will definitely preserve the enthusiasm for evangelization, since I believe it is doing God’s will to proclaim the truth can, and can play a very important role in the life to love and holiness.

I think what’s more important than what Protestants believe is what really causes them to believe what they believe. Simply put, Protestants hate Catholicism so much that they reject the idea of human works and goodness being a deciding factor of salvation, a complete denial of Synergism and a full support of divine monergism, resulting in those famous doctrines of “total depravity”, “unconditional predestination”, “faith/grace/Christ alone”, “good works being merely result of faith”, and “imputed righteousness”.

Now, it doesn’t mean that Protestants don’t good works or love people or pursue holiness. In fact, they do a lot, but with a radically different reason. For Catholics, we have faith in order to become holy. For Protestants, they become holy in order to prove and reassure their faith. This also results in their overwhelming confidence about their own salvation. Therefore, under such mindset, Protestants are generally reluctant to consider the Catholicism because their current belief gives them great comfort and assurance of salvation. Not surprisingly, they condemn that Catholic teaching is not the “true Gospel” that sets people free, but rather a humiliation of Christ’s death and his sovereignty, and that God’s saving grace still requiring man’s holiness is not a true “amazing grace”.

 

[PJM]

=poptown;9914719]Hey everyone. Recently I have been trying to evangelize people and tell them about Catholic faith, as well as their Protestant doctrinal errors … But many people tell me that they don’t care because they think the Gospel is to believe in Christ, to acknowledge the sins (and maybe be obedient to Christ’s Commandments) and nothing more. Other doctrines are not so important in terms of influencing the salvation. Therefore, which church one chooses, whether or not one believes in “once saved always saved”, “total depravity”, “unconditional damnation” or other things do not affect salvation. All that matters is to do what Gospel says: to repent, to believe (and maybe to do good works).

What do you guys think? Do you think this can be a good reason for not considering the Catholic Church? Do you think faith in doctrine matters for salvation, or not? All answers are welcome! Thank you!

MY DEAR FRIEND IN CHRIST,

THERE IS BUT ONE SIGGLE INFALLIBLE RULE FOR UNDERSTANDING THE BIBLE…

IT IS: NEVER-EVER CAN, OR MAY OR DOES ONE PART OF THE BIBLE MAKE VOID, INVALIDATE, OR ORVERRULE OTHER TEACHINGS. NEVER!

So here is a bit of homework for you using this FACT as your foundation:

READ 1st. Matt.10: 1-8

Then Matt. 16:18-19

Then Matt. 28:16-20

Then John 14:16-17

Then John 20: 21-22

and Then John 17:15-19

Here’s the key: take the words literally; and KNOW that Christ 'God sproke these words ONLY to His Apostles and through them by virture of Mt. 28:19-20 COMMAND to the “whole world” so Apostolic Succession is an absolute requirement for this to happen; and this applies to today’s Catholic Church ALONE, no body else. Christ Himself said so!

Here’s a web site to make your job easier:

drbo.org/

Let me know if you still have a problem. EVERYTHING IS CHARITY. We offer, but do NOT force truth upon the less blessed and uninformed. AMEN!

 

[poptown]

READ 1st. Matt.10: 1-8
Then Matt. 16:18-19
Then Matt. 28:16-20
Then John 14:16-17
Then John 20: 21-22
and Then John 17:15-19
Here’s the key: take the words literally; and KNOW that Christ 'God sproke these words ONLY to His Apostles and through them by virture of Mt. 28:19-20 COMMAND to the “whole world” so Apostolic Succession is an absolute requirement for this to happen; and this applies to today’s Catholic Church ALONE, no body else. Christ Himself said so!

Thank you. Those verse are truly very good.

But Protestants always say through the Holy Scripture alone they are directly connected with Apostles. They don’t trust so-called “Apostolic Succession” because they think all people and all churches are equal before Holy Scripture anyway. And in their view, “succession” and “church” are done all through Holy Scripture alone.

 

[Edward_H]

Thank you. Those verse are truly very good.

But Protestants always say through the Holy Scripture alone they are directly connected with Apostles. They don’t trust so-called “Apostolic Succession” because they think all people and all churches are equal before Holy Scripture anyway. And in their view, “succession” and “church” are done all through Holy Scripture alone.

Ask them where the Bible came from. The Bible is not self-attesting. It didn’t come with a table of contents. God didn’t fax the collated set of writings to us.

Specifically:

• How did the process work out, that of separating out which letters were inspired and which ones weren’t?
• Who, in other words, “stapled” it?
• Who closed the canon?

No non-Catholic Christian can answer these questions without pointing to a manifestation of apostolic succession.

 

[poptown]

Ask them where the Bible came from. The Bible is not self-attesting. It didn’t come with a table of contents. God didn’t fax the collated set of writings to us.

Specifically:

• How did the process work out, that of separating out which letters were inspired and which ones weren’t?
• Who, in other words, “stapled” it?
• Who closed the canon?

No non-Catholic Christian can answer these questions without pointing to a manifestation of apostolic succession.

They usually say the scriptures were already circulating. Some councils simply acknowledged their existence; they don’t think it has much to do with the authenticity of the church …

Protestants can be very crazy while doing these two wrong things: they 1) give up the zeal for truth 2) for the sake of a wrong faith.

 

[PJM]

=poptown;9923456]Thank you. Those verse are truly very good.

But Protestants always say through the Holy Scripture alone they are directly connected with Apostles. They don’t trust so-called “Apostolic Succession” because they think all people and all churches are equal before Holy Scripture anyway. And in their view, “succession” and “church” are done all through Holy Scripture alone.

I’ll ATTEMPT to answer that here. But space is limited.

PLEASE understand that what I share is not a slam on Protestants. Truth remains the singular truth even when denied, which it is why Protestants simply don’t get What Christ and the Bible actually does teach.

Each of the passages I suggested in my previous post apply to the issue at hand. WHY?

Because God; both Yahweh and Christ always, with no exceptions have consistently taught belief in One God; Only One set of Faith beliefs and Only One chosen people. Christ Founded and CHOOSE His catholic Church more than 1,000 years before Protestantism was given birth and a new life by Luther.

John.10: 16 “And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd”

Ps.127:1 “Unless the LORD builds the house, those who build it labor in vain.
Unless the LORD watches over the city, the watchman stays awake in vain”

Eph. 2:19-20 “So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

Who can deny and PROVE this is not true. That Christ is lying?

Eph. 4: 1-7 “I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body [WHICH MEANS ONE CHURCH] and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, [Meaning only One set of beliefs] one baptism, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all

One God:

Malachias 2:10 “Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why then doth every one of us despise his brother, violating the covenant of our fathers?”

**Mark 12:29 **“And Jesus answered him: The first commandment of all is, Hear, O Israel: the Lord thy God is one God”

One set of Faith beliefs:

**Genesis 17:2 **“And I will make my covenant [singular] between me and thee: and I will multiply thee exceedingly”

Ephesians 4:5 " One Lord, one faith,[SET OF BELIEF’S] one baptism."

ONLY ONE chosen people

Exodus 6:7 “And I will take you to myself for my people, I will be your God: and you shall know that I am the Lord your God who brought you out from the work prison of the Egyptians” …Psalm 33:1-2 “

Mt. 10:1-4 " And having called his twelve disciples [apostles] together, he gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of diseases, and all manner of infirmities. And the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, Philip and Bartholomew, Thomas and Matthew the publican, and James the son of Alpheus, and Thaddeus, Simon the Cananean, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him"

Mt. 16: 18-19 “And I [GOD] say to thee: [ALONE] That thou art Peter; and upon [YOU Peter] this rock I will build my church, [SINGULAR] and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind[TEACH] upon earth, it shall be bound [SO] also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose [Forbid] upon earth, it shall be loosed [Forbidden] also in heaven.”

Space, not biblical FACTS prohibit a longer response.

TIE THIS IN WITH THE REFERENCES i PROVIDED IN MY PREVIOUS POST.

No where in the bible can one find a command or a teaching for 'Scripture ALONE" BUT the final verses in John 20 and John 21 specificially say NOT ALONE

 

[PJM]

=poptown;9923456]Thank you. Those verse are truly very good.

But Protestants always say through the Holy Scripture alone they are directly connected with Apostles. They don’t trust so-called “Apostolic Succession” because they think all people and all churches are equal before Holy Scripture anyway. And in their view, “succession” and “church” are done all through Holy Scripture alone.

That dear friend is there option; BUT in doing so they actually DENY GOD, and God’s WORDS and Teachings. I have in two differnt post on this string provided EVIDENCE from the Bible that they are indispiitablly worng.

The Bible by virtue of the following FACTS prove the catholic Position:

God’s actual Power and Authority are given directly to and exclusively to the Apostles in the following passages [this is just some of them]. And by virtue of His Command to His Apostles in Matt. 28:19-20 to “THE ENTIRE WORLD” one can know that Succession simply HAS to be God’s PLAN. No other option exist. PERIOD!

Mt. 10:1-8
Mt. 16:18-20
Mt. 28:18-20
John 14:16-17
John 20:21-22
John 17:15-19

drbo.org/
check these out at this site.

EACH IS ADDRESSED DIRECTLY TO THE APOSTLES AND THROUGH THEM TO TODAYS CC.

EITHER THIS IS FACT OR CHRIST HAD TO EXPECT IS TEACHINGS TO END WITH THE APOSTLES. AN ABSURD POSITION

God Bless,
pat/PJM