Help with a pro abortionist!!!!

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Valtiel

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I’m not sure how to respond to this…
The abortive procedure was developed by Catholic priests to stem the tide of births in their monestaries. There were just too many babies being born because the priests kept on knocking up the women seeking sancuary. That is really neither here nor there. The problem with all these arguments (and the whole pro-life movement in general) is that they all seem to feel that life is something sanctified. I find it grossly hypocritical that you would have trouble disposing of a pulsating wad of felsh that does not grow on it’s own, but you have no care when smashing an insect, eating the products of an animal, landscaping your yard, etc. You have no trouble distrubing the natural order of life when it isn’t a human being you are facing. I say this makes all your arguments invalid. You are not a god and you have very little to do with the natural order, as such you are in no position to judge anybody else for taking care of themselves as they see fit. Judgement however, is in human nature. It is a defense mechanism that comes from fear. You are full of judgement and full of yourself. I don’t care if I’ve changed your mind, but don’t you dare try to speak to me about this again. I just want to reiterate that you have no right to control any woman in any regard, you have no right to determine the natural order of things, and your petty morality hurts the world more than it helps, so give it up.
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This person is sick and needs our prayers more than debate or rebuttal.

If it is a one on one debate, I would drop the debate because I cannot see anything but the grace of God that would break the vile hatred in the heart of the person.

You can debate with a person and logically argue why abortion is the taking of a human life, apart from religion. But logic, science, and technology would fly over this person’s head.

I would show the results of abortion and leave it there. No need for you to lose your peace.

campaignlifecoalition.com/abortion_types/

womensissues.about.com/cs/abortionvideos/
 
(1) On the pulsating wad of flesh that does not grow on it’s own.

The child before being born is dependent upon the mother for food, nourishment, and growth.

The child after being born is dependent upon the mother for food, nourishment, and growth.

(2) “Taking care of themselves”?

It is not themselves that they are taking care of. They are ridding themselves of a burdensome child.
 
Well, I also don’t think there is much you can do to change the mind of this person. But you can ask for a source for this outlandish claim. They will not be able to give a reputable one, but you could ask. I’m curious, though, where these monks also Doctors that knew surgery? 😉
 
I would start by praying. She also seems to need a rosary or a day fasting in her name.

Start your refutation by asking for a source for her accusations of the development of the abortion procedure.

My six moth old daughter will not grow on her own. Should I be allowed to get rid of her? She is just a “pulsating wad of flesh.”

There are many mammals and even more forms of life on this planet. They are born, grow and die but never develop intelligence and consciousness. If that’s not special and sanctifiable then what is?

I would have no objection to her taking care of herself as she sees fit as long as she does not use that to excuse the murder of another.
 
The abortive procedure was developed by Catholic priests
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This is pure Jack Chick style anti-Catholicism. It has no basis in reality and cannot be substantiated by any reputable source whatsoever.
The problem with all these arguments (and the whole pro-life movement in general) is that they all seem to feel that life is something sanctified.
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Well, she’s got us there! I suppose she feels life is worthless.
I find it grossly hypocritical that you would have trouble disposing of a pulsating wad of felsh that does not grow on it’s own, but you have no care when smashing an insect, eating the products of an animal, landscaping your yard, etc.
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So if we squash a bug or pull a weed, we have no right to claim that human life should be protected, huy? Okayyyy…
You have no trouble distrubing the natural order of life when it isn’t a human being you are facing.
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That’s a bit broad - nobody recklessely kills plants or animals without cause. But we do distinguish between the value of human life and other forms.
I say this makes all your arguments invalid.
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Well, I guess we’re wrong, then, when faced with such blistering logic.
You are not a god and you have very little to do with the natural order
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That’s interesting. I thought we were PART of the natural order.
as such you are in no position to judge anybody else for taking care of themselves as they see fit.
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In the case of abortion, there are two people involved. What gives the mother the right to judge the fate of the child?
Judgement however, is in human nature.
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What is part of nature is (by definition) natural. She therefore claims that judgement is part of the natural order, which she lauds before but seems to condemn now.
It is a defense mechanism that comes from fear…
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Sorry, I don’t follow this next bit - it simply seems like she’s venting vitriol
I just want to reiterate that you have no right to control any woman in any regard
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ANY regard? We can’t tell a woman she can’t steal? cheat? kill? (kill?)
you have no right to determine the natural order of things
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Well, neither does she. Where does she get the right to decide it’s OK for a mother to kill her baby? Only God has the right to determine the natural order of things.
and your petty morality hurts the world more than it helps
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Gosh, I never thought that defending the unborn was actually harmful to the entire world!

Does she believe all human life is worthless? Does she believe it’s OK for a woman to do anything she pleases and nobody can tell her any different? She is completely irrational.
 
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yochumjy:
Well, I also don’t think there is much you can do to change the mind of this person. But you can ask for a source for this outlandish claim. They will not be able to give a reputable one, but you could ask. I’m curious, though, where these monks also Doctors that knew surgery? 😉
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Sounds little bit like part of the plot of a recent fiction paper back that had Devinci in the title but was not “The Devinci Code” There was a monastery in Italy that had some Devinci secrets having to do with an undeveloped powerful new weapon designed by Devinci. The monastery kidnapped and kept women to produce new generations of monks. Female fetuses were aborted or female babies killed. It was strictly a fantasy mystery. I suppose if people are gullible enough for the Devinci Code they might swallow this tale whole as well.
 
I suppose that we aren’t allowed to chop down trees to burn for warmth and cooking purposes. But what do we need cooking for when we can’t even kill animals or pick fruits and uproot vegetables? I must be a bad person for executing that essential functions of life! We better all stop eating and burning wood, because “that’s a no-no”.

Also, if she’s AT ALL Christian, you could read from the Bible Luke 1: 41-45 where Mary visits Elizabeth and both John the Baptist and Jesus are recognized as people in the womb! John, who happens to have a soul, leaps in Elizabeth’s womb. This is a great verse that supports the sanctity of life, even before birth.

But I don’t think she’s Christian, sooo…

One more thing; we are allowed to say that actions are bad and to judge those actions as evil, but we aren’t supposed to judge the people that commit the sins. Just some thoughts…
 
And, if it is a “procedure developed by priests … in their monestaries…”, how is it that it is condemned in the Didache, written at the end of the first century?
 
  1. If you are pregnant, you’ve already let a man tell you what to do with your body (97% of the time, anyway).
  2. If you’re so for women’s rights, then support a woman’s right to be born.
    The person writing this hate-filled diatribe is out of control and needs lots of prayer. When broaching the subject of abortion, do it gently and address one issue at a time. If it degenerates into the above, then avoid the topic. You’ve planted seeds. Water them with prayer.
 
“You are not a god and you have very little to do with the natural order, as such you are in no position to judge anybody else for taking care of themselves as they see fit.”

And what part of the natural order is killing your own young?!?!?!
NotWorthy
 
NotWorthy said:
“You are not a god and you have very little to do with the natural order, as such you are in no position to judge anybody else for taking care of themselves as they see fit.”

And what part of the natural order is killing your own young?!?!?!

NotWorthy
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Animals and certain insects sometimes eat their young. However, it would seem that this author supports animal and bug protection. His or her problem is with those who would dare speak up for young developing human life. Then he or she takes the serial killer position.

Interesting.
 
Dr. Anthony Levatino -
Former Abortion Provider
Click Here for longer version of this testimony, as given at

“Meet the Abortion Providers” Conference
of the Pro-life Action League (Chicago).

As a physician in Troy, NY, I performed abortions in my office for eight years. I believed it was “pro-woman” to provide this option. While abortion was never a major part of my practice, as time went on it caused me more and more conflict.

My wife and I were seeking to adopt a child, and all the while I was throwing other people’s children in the garbage at the rate of 9 or 10 a week. I began to think, “If only one of these women could give us her child.”

Eventually, my wife and I were successful in adopting a healthy girl, Heather. On June 23, 1984, Heather was hit by a car and died. When you lose your child, life is very different. Everything changes. That’s when things really changed for me regarding abortion. I realized as never before that the child I was killing in each abortion was somebody’s precious child. My own loss enabled me to value life even more.

I began to feel like a paid assassin…and that’s exactly what I was. My self-esteem plummeted, and so did my interest in doing abortions. In 1985 I stopped.

I now speak publicly about my pro-life convictions. I want the general public to know, for YOU to know what the doctors know: that this is a person.

Dr. Levatino describes the D&E (Dilation and Evacuation) abortion procedure.
priestsforlife.org/testi…ormerabort.html
There are more interviews if you have the guts and real honesty to actually read something you fight so hard to protect.
 
I suppose that we aren’t allowed to chop down trees to burn for warmth and cooking purposes. But what do we need cooking for when we can’t even kill animals or pick fruits and uproot vegetables? I must be a bad person for executing that essential functions of life! We better all stop eating and burning wood, because “that’s a no-no”.
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I don’t think that was the author’s intention. They are saying that one life is NOT greater than another so if you can pick a fruit or cut down a tree, you should be allowed to abort a fetus. I don’t think they were trying to condemn anything but catholicism:)

And yes that is total misinformation, egyptians had abortions and birth control before there was a catholic church.
 
You know the old saying that “one picture is worth a 1,000 words…”

Have them check out:
www.priestforlife.org

Be careful… there are some very graphic pictures… and it’s a little more than “squashing a bug”

Blessings,
Joanie
 
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Wormwood:
I don’t think that was the author’s intention. They are saying that one life is NOT greater than another so if you can pick a fruit or cut down a tree, you should be allowed to abort a fetus. I don’t think they were trying to condemn anything but catholicism:)
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It is also possible that this is a woman suffering the hidden guilt of an abortion. The text is very emotional, even bordering on hysteria. If this is the case, or even a possibility I suggest using great love and care. This is not a hurt that can be argued away.

afterabortion.com/

hopeafterabortion.com/

I will pray fro all invovled.
 
It is also possible that this is a woman suffering the hidden guilt of an abortion. The text is very emotional, even bordering on hysteria. If this is the case, or even a possibility I suggest using great love and care. This is not a hurt that can be argued away.
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Could be, but usually post abortion emotional disorders (if any) are repentance and guilt, not avid support. You have to understand that some people simply don’t have the capacity to care about human life outside of their own. I am in no way trying to condemn anyone who is like that, just stating that they are a portion of the population. I am not a psychologist, but I believe anti-social patterns like that are from feelings of worthlessness from neglectful or abusive parents, or at least that is the popular speculation these days. The point they were making was just for this instance. You are compelled to care about people you don’t even know, so you would never have an abortion. The author of the article has no capacity to care even about very familiar figures in her life, so she has no problem with abortion (if that is indeed the case). Who is right here? Tough to say (just like my official stance…I am pro-choice, but I would never personally make that choice). She has no morality to tell her what she is doing is wrong, so she is not compelled by the same forces as you. Is it fair to inflict your religious beliefs on her? Not really. Is it fair to inflict her lack of morality on the fetus? Not really. Someones rights HAVE to suffer here…and the courts ruled for the taxpayer over the fetus. If the courts had ruled for the fetus, and for some reason people stopped doing back alley abortions, the children would grow up neglected and abused, and the world would be even more populated with people who don’t care about anything.(I am sure I will see this opinion quoted)
And the pro-life people that post all of the abortion photos should realize that pictures of any invasive surgery look disgusting. Ever seen eye surgery? Should that be outlawed because it’s disgusting?
 
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Wormwood:
Who is right here? Tough to say (just like my official stance…I am pro-choice, but I would never personally make that choice).

And the pro-life people that post all of the abortion photos should realize that pictures of any invasive surgery look disgusting. Ever seen eye surgery? Should that be outlawed because it’s disgusting?
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Are you saying that you are pro-choice? I thought maybe I was misunderstanding your statement above.

The difference between looking at an eye that had surgery (completed act vs. “surgery on an eye”) and looking at an aborted fetus (completed act) is that the eye surgery corrected vision (no moral issue here) and the aborted fetus is a dead baby.
 
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