Help With A Question?

  • Thread starter Thread starter SPOKENWORD
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
SPOKENWORD:
Please explain what you would say to a nonbeliever why they should become a christian?
Click to expand...
  1. You don’t sell them fire insurance. That’s the sure way to get them to realise your religion is a business rather than anything spiritual.
  2. You tell them how good Christianity is, how enjoyable a personal relationship with God is, how pleasurable it is in to know God in person and not just on paper. This one would work especially well with Muslims, Sikhs and Baha’is, since they believe in an impersonal god and don’t believe a personal relationship can be had with God.
If you want to sell Christianity successfully, sell it as a religion of joy. I’m not in the religion-selling business, but I can tell you it works well.
 
Heathen Dawn said:
1) You don’t sell them fire insurance. That’s the sure way to get them to realise your religion is a business rather than anything spiritual.
  1. You tell them how good Christianity is, how enjoyable a personal relationship with God is, how pleasurable it is in to know God in person and not just on paper. This one would work especially well with Muslims, Sikhs and Baha’is, since they believe in an impersonal god and don’t believe a personal relationship can be had with God.
If you want to sell Christianity successfully, sell it as a religion of joy. I’m not in the religion-selling business, but I can tell you it works well.
Click to expand...

You know I have seen those programs that sell Christianity:nope: Spoken,you do not sell anything you be honest and let that person know that your a sinner don’t you dare put the health,wealth,and prosperity,happy clappy nonsense:tsktsk: Joy that comes from God is different than joy that comes from the world,you had better pray for guidance.God Bless
PS Heathen sorry I jumped in there like that I am sure you have seen the productionist, and hopefully Spoken won’t go there.
 
Heathen Dawn said:
1) You don’t sell them fire insurance. That’s the sure way to get them to realise your religion is a business rather than anything spiritual.
  1. You tell them how good Christianity is, how enjoyable a personal relationship with God is, how pleasurable it is in to know God in person and not just on paper. This one would work especially well with Muslims, Sikhs and Baha’is, since they believe in an impersonal god and don’t believe a personal relationship can be had with God.
If you want to sell Christianity successfully, sell it as a religion of joy. I’m not in the religion-selling business, but I can tell you it works well.
Click to expand...

Hi Heathen, Hows our friend Blessed Be doing? Havent seen her around for quite a while. Is she okay? Why is it that you have not embraced christianity? Whats your reason? God Bless
 
40.png
Lisa4Catholics:
You know I have seen those programs that sell Christianity:nope: Spoken,you do not sell anything you be honest and let that person know that your a sinner don’t you dare put the health,wealth,and prosperity,happy clappy nonsense:tsktsk: Joy that comes from God is different than joy that comes from the world,you had better pray for guidance.God Bless
PS Heathen sorry I jumped in there like that I am sure you have seen the productionist, and hopefully Spoken won’t go there.
Click to expand...
Hi Lisa, You are right, To many churches are preaching a watered down gospel. Churches are presenting the fruits which is only a partial truth. Because they are not rooted in Christ and trials come against them they walk away. The peace of Jesus Christ can only come from Him. This is not the same peace this world recieves.Its a false peace. 😉 God Bless
 
40.png
SPOKENWORD:
Hi Heathen, Hows our friend Blessed Be doing?
Click to expand...
I don’t know. I don’t keep track of online acquaintances.
Why is it that you have not embraced christianity? Whats your reason?
Click to expand...
Because 1) I think it’s untrue, and 2) I think its afterlife system is immoral. I reject monotheism as false, and I reject hell as a scare-tactic invented by men.
 
Heathen Dawn:
I don’t know. I don’t keep track of online acquaintances.

Because 1)*I think it’s untrue, and 2)*I think its afterlife system is immoral. I reject monotheism as false, and I reject hell as a scare-tactic invented by men.
Click to expand...
Hi H.D. So you reject Hell. Do you accept heaven? If so how do you know you are getting in? God Bless
 
40.png
SPOKENWORD:
Do you accept heaven?
Click to expand...
Only loosely, and not the Christian concept of it. I believe in life after death; but even the abodes of bliss are not a place of stagnation, not an eternal holiday camp, but a real life, with progress and struggles. There is no bodily pain, and you don’t have the mask of the flesh to veil the sight of the Divine from you, but otherwise the afterlife is but a continuation of the earthly life.

My afterlife beliefs are from Spiritualism.
If so how do you know you are getting in?
Click to expand...
Law of nature. There is no possibility of evading it. Atheists will not get their wish to cease existing, and Muslims will not get their wish to have a porno palace all their own. Christians, though, won’t be very disappointed—beatific bliss of the presence of God will definitely be there.
 
40.png
AnAtheist:
If you believe and there is a different God than you expected,
when you die, you’ve lost everything.
Click to expand...
This may be true, but the atheist always loses or breaks even, at least a religious person has a chance to “win.” Agnostics are even more irrational. They’re wrong no matter what. At least the atheist would be right, but he would have broke even. Strangely enough, from a utilitarian perspective being an atheist is stupid. (Haha, this is like selling insurance I guess, but some people think spiritual stuff is irrational, so this is only for those types!)

An atheists expected utility is negative. Expected utility is the utlity (happiness/pleasure/satisfaction) of an event x the probability that will occur (a fraction) + the utility of another event x the probability it will occur:

Probability of no God x payoff(earthly pleasure, a finite utility) + Probability of God x payoff (Hell, inifintely negative)= infinitely negative.

versus

Prob. of no God x payoff (the happiness I got from thinking there was a God) + Prob of wrong God (inifinte negative) + prob of right God (inifinite positive) = happiness from thinking I knew the right God, which is positive (this is given infinite negative and infinite positve cancel)

basically, your choice is inifinte negative or finite positive, only an irrational person would choose an infinte negative.
 
Heathen Dawn:
Atheists will not get their wish to cease existing
Click to expand...
As opposed to you, I accept that I will utterly cease to exist sooner or later. It is not a wish of mine or to the best of my knowledge of atheists in general, but it doesn’t prompt me to seek a form of spirituality to make me feel better, either.
 
40.png
Tmaque:
That’s simply false. Sounds like an excuse to not explore a relationship with God.
Click to expand...
dude, we’ve gotta be open minded. you can’t just say it’s false. explain why you believe it’s false
 
40.png
Drew98:
I would reply “why is there God instead of nothing?”. Whatever answer you give could probably be used to answer your question above.
Click to expand...
Haha, I think this is why none of the smaretst human beings around today have been able to prove it either way!

Since no one today has the video of creation or Jesus being resurrected, or whatever would prove atheism we have to take someone’s word for it. I guess it’s a matter of who’s word you’ll take. I figure, odds are, the apostles weren’t gonna die for something they personally just made up, so I guess I’ll take their word that all the stuff they said actually happened.

I don’t think, to my knowledge, there is anyone who specifically claims to have empirical proof that their is no God? At least a few people way back when had empirical proof of God.

I’m sure I’ve used some sort of fallacy here, but it makes sense to me. I’d appreciate a critique of this line of thought.
 
40.png
Genesis315:
An atheists expected utility is negative.
Click to expand...
Your math is flawed.

Atheists consider the probability of god existing to either zero or infinitesimally small; further, they consider the temporal cost of religious belief as a negative and the lack of religious strictures as a positive.

You also wrongly assume that atheists cannot believe in a non-theistic afterlife.

You neglect the moral turpitude in accepting a religious belief for the sake of a reward or to escape punishment.

Not to forget the problem of multiple religions. Which god shall it be?

And there are even more objections. Pascal’s Wager is a tool to reinforce existing belief and not a conversion instrument. I scorn people that accept the wager or believe it to have any validity.
haha, is atheism the fear to question your own limitations?
Click to expand...
Strangely enough, that is my opinion of many theists. Rather than accept our limitations and do not attempt to answer questions we cannot answer, they resort to the stock answer of goddidit.

Anyway, I don’t believe we have anything else to discuss.
 
Heathen Dawn:
You’re going to be surprised. :cool:
Click to expand...
One way or the other, all of us will find out. I simply don’t feel compelled to follow your example…
 
40.png
SPOKENWORD:
Dear brothers and sisters in Christ I need help with answering a question. Please explain what you would say to a nonbeliever why they should become a christian? Thanks in advance for your (name removed by moderator)ut. God Bless
Click to expand...

Why not ask that particular person what the obstacles to belief are for that particular person ?​

 
wolpertinger

Haha, you’re probably right that thinking in terms of utility is base. I just think it’s just another interesting way to look at it. Please don’t scorn me!:o

I guess here is my main question for you (and this maybe too deep to answer, lol):

What is the purpose of an atheist’s life (I assume you are an atheist) besides racking up as much utility as you can before you kick the bucket?
 
40.png
Genesis315:
Since no one today has the video of creation or Jesus being resurrected, or whatever would prove atheism we have to take someone’s word for it. I guess it’s a matter of who’s word you’ll take. I figure, odds are, the apostles weren’t gonna die for something they personally just made up, so I guess I’ll take their word that all the stuff they said actually happened.
Click to expand...
If you believe that the apostles died because of their belief that Jesus was God even then you are “taking someone’s word for it”. You have no firsthand knowledge of that either.
40.png
Genesis315:
I don’t think, to my knowledge, there is anyone who specifically claims to have empirical proof that their is no God?
Click to expand...
Whenever I pray and get zero response I consider that empirical proof that the Christian God does not exist.
 
Here are my questions for the atheists
1)did anyone in your family originally believe in Christianity?
2)What made you not believe if your parents did?
3)And of last of all the classic: Where did we come from?
 
40.png
Drew98:
If you believe that the apostles died because of their belief that Jesus was God even then you are “taking someone’s word for it”. You have no firsthand knowledge of that either.

Whenever I pray and get zero response I consider that empirical proof that the Christian God does not exist.
Click to expand...
I pray and do get a response, every time, is that empirical evidence that He does exist? That is 100% true too. When you pray and try to test God you’ll never get any reponse, maybe that’s your problem.

Haha, I know I’m taking someone’s word for it. All of history is “taking someone’s word for it.” The point I was trying to make is who’s word are you going to take. Plus, Peter’s remains exist and examination of them has showed he was crucified, which happened during the persecutions in Rome. (I think there might actually be an article about it on this site somewhere).

Don’t forget my question from last post, I’m still interested in your answer! Don’t leave me hangin :crying:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top