Help With A Question?

[SPOKENWORD]

Heathen Dawn:

This isn’t academic citing, if I did this then my university professor would give me a failing grade. But I’ll go with it for the sake of argument.

Actually there’s nothing mysterious about this if you know a little about ancient Egyptian theology. Like yours truly, the ancient Egyptians were soft polytheists: believers in many Gods and Goddesses who are components of one single overarching Divinity (whom I, after the Hindus, call Brahman, and the Egyptians called Netjer). “One true and living God” exists, but, as the Hindus say, truth is one but the wise call it by many names (ekam sat vipraha bahudha vadanti), and the names through which the one true and living God is known are His persons, the many Gods and Goddesses. Which isn’t that far removed from the Christian Trinity (one God, many persons).

Hi Heathen,Notice that God destroyed the egyptian gods through the 10 plaques.Our God is a jealous God and will have no other gods before him and that includes your god and goddess. P/s Still waiting for an answer.See post #45
God Bless

 

[jimmy]

AnAtheist:

Choices are subject to physical laws, like anything else. “Free” in this context means they are not determined by the state of the universe. That is physically possible on the quantum level. Free choices and modern physics are not contradicting, quite the opposite is the case. I recomment Paul Davies “God and the New Physics” for more details on that issue.

Yes, I am subject to gravity and all other laws of the universe. But that only prevents my ideas and choices in as far as they are caried out. Like I said above, I can decide to hit either the k or the m, or any of the other buttons on my keyboard. No physical laws of the universe govern this. I can choose as I want.

Now, if I decide to lift a car, then the laws of physics come into play when I can’t get it off the ground.

To add to my last post. All action potentils are identical in size and length. They do not change. The neurotransmitters are limmited to a very few number, and are usually Acetal Cholene and Norepinephrine. It is impossible for this to govern decision making and thought processes.

 

[jimmy]

AnAtheist:

Correct, but you are missing one important mechanism, that is evolutionary pressure. I am not sure if that’s the correct English term, “Evolutionsdruck” in German.
Basically the environment favours certain mutations, thus forcing selection. At this stage the process is not purely random anymore. We have to deal dependent probabilities, which are extremely difficult if not impossible to calculate.

You mean natural selection?

 

[jimmy]

wolpertinger:

This is where I will simply disagree with you.

So you believe that you don’t exist?

 

[wolpertinger]

john doran:

with what do you disagree? is it that you think that i did make the (classic) blunder i deny having made?

I disagree with just about everything you said in your previous post and my experience on this forum tells me that this is the time back out of an argument that will not go anywhere.

 

[jimmy]

AnAtheist:

Well, I am not.
Quantum physics clearly disproves determinism and makes way for a cosmology that explains the origin of the universe (and of free thoughts (will) too btw) without divine interference.

I would like to see these knew ideas that allow this. I was not aware of a quantum physics law the caused me to be able to choose which key to press.

Everything natural follows physical laws of the universe. Nothing can happen of its own will. If there is no law for it, then it will not happen.

The one exception I can think of is thought processing and decision making and creative ideas. No law ordered for Einstein to come up with his theory of relativity. No law ordered for Davinci to paint the Last Supper. No law dictated how Tolkien told The Lord of The Rings. They are all matters of creativity that could have taken on any idea they wanted, but they chose the way they did.

 

[Malachi4U]

SPOKENWORD:

…Please explain what you would say to a nonbeliever why they should become a christian?..

As a Catholic we should not have to say anything at all. Our actions should reflect His truth and glory. Our actions should bring people home to His one holy Catholic and apostolic Church that have strayed away or followed false teachers (i.e. Calvin, David Koresh, Martin Luther, Jim Jones, Zwingli, John Smyth, Joseph Smith, White, Baker, etc…). If our actions are lacking in good Catholic Christian content (i.e. Faith), then we would of course need to find words to express our Faith as Catholics in Jesus Christ as our personnal Lord and savior.

The fact that we have to use words at all proves we are sinners and still in “hope” for salvation.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Malachi4U:

As a Catholic we should not have to say anything at all. Our actions should reflect His truth and glory. Our actions should bring people home to His one holy Catholic and apostolic Church that have strayed away or followed false teachers (i.e. Calvin, David Koresh, Martin Luther, Jim Jones, Zwingli, John Smyth, Joseph Smith, White, Baker, etc…). If our actions are lacking in good Catholic Christian content (i.e. Faith), then we would of course need to find words to express our Faith as Catholics in Jesus Christ as our personnal Lord and savior.

The fact that we have to use words at all proves we are sinners and still in “hope” for salvation.

Hi Malachi.So what do thnk about Jesus command to Go and preach the Good News.You say as a catholic you are not to say anything goes against what Jesus commanded you to do.This is an obedience issue I believe. The Gospel message is what is going to bring people to Christ. God Bless

 

[jimmy]

SPOKENWORD:

Hi Malachi.So what do thnk about Jesus command to Go and preach the Good News.You say as a catholic you are not to say anything goes against what Jesus commanded you to do.This is an obedience issue I believe. The Gospel message is what is going to bring people to Christ. God Bless

I think Malachi is just saying that we should preach the gospel as St. Francis said, “always preach the gospel, when neccesary use words”. Every one of your actions and deeds should preach the words of Christ.

When you are using words you are idle and you are not doing what you could do to help others. Not that words are bad, they are just not as full as your acts and deeds.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

jimmy:

I think Malachi is just saying that we should preach the gospel as St. Francis said, “always preach the gospel, when neccesary use words”. Every one of your actions and deeds should preach the words of Christ.

When you are using words you are idle and you are not doing what you could do to help others. Not that words are bad, they are just not as full as your acts and deeds.

Hi Jimmy,In order to preach the Gospel words are necessary. Our actions and deeds are the fruits of Gods Gift of Salvation.Many people will perish if we miss Gods command. God Bless

 

[jimmy]

SPOKENWORD:

Hi Jimmy,In order to preach the Gospel words are necessary. Our actions and deeds are the fruits of Gods Gift of Salvation.Many people will perish if we miss Gods command. God Bless

Words are not necesary. Mother Theresa didn’t preach with words, but she was one of the best preachers of the gospel in the world.

 

[MarkAnthonyCozy]

AnAtheist:

Then we can stop here. The origin of homo sapiens was 100000 to 250000 years ago. The origin of life was 3.5bln years ago, the origin of Earth 4 to 4.5bln years, the origin of matter 10 to 20bln years ago.
Are you seriously implying, the Genesis story was orally handed down from 100000 years ago?

Can you scientifically prove this? Can anyone scientifically prove this?

What you have just stated is based on theories. You have chosen to believe that theory which suits you best. The pursuit of truth is nothing more than a visit to the local cafeteria of the latest theories and we can just pick and chose the one we want to believe in. Sounds logical to me.

There exists an absolute truth that’s not at all based on what we may happen to think or feel about it.

Do you have a better, more logical, explanation for the Genesis story?

 

[SPOKENWORD]

jimmy:

Words are not necesary. Mother Theresa didn’t preach with words, but she was one of the best preachers of the gospel in the world.

Hi Jimmy,Dont you think that Mother Theresa spoke of Gods love to the people she helped. I think you are misinformed my friend. Gods Word is to be spoken. God Bless brother

 

[MarkAnthonyCozy]

Malachi4U:

As a Catholic we should not have to say anything at all. Our actions should reflect His truth and glory. Our actions should bring people home to His one holy Catholic and apostolic Church that have strayed away or followed false teachers (i.e. Calvin, David Koresh, Martin Luther, Jim Jones, Zwingli, John Smyth, Joseph Smith, White, Baker, etc…). If our actions are lacking in good Catholic Christian content (i.e. Faith), then we would of course need to find words to express our Faith as Catholics in Jesus Christ as our personnal Lord and savior.

The fact that we have to use words at all proves we are sinners and still in “hope” for salvation.

There is much truth to these statements. Especially for most of us in today’s culture. It was the witness in the way my new friends lived their lives that first drew me to them to find out why they were different. This lead me to seek Jesus Christ.

If we are living as we ought then people will come to us with questions when they are ready. It is then that we must be prepared to share our faith with them. This works best in environments where we see the same people on a regular basis.

Some of us are called to be street corner evangelists. But this usually doesn’t work in your own home town unless you’ve been away for a while!

We need to be praying at all times, listening to God at all times, and if we are called to preach, we preach. If we are called to serve, we serve. If we are called to fast and pray for individuals that others will preach to them, we do that to.

 

[wolpertinger]

MarkAnthonyCozy:

What you have just stated is based on theories. You have chosen to believe that theory which suits you best. The pursuit of truth is nothing more than a visit to the local cafeteria of the latest theories and we can just pick and chose the one we want to believe in. Sounds logical to me.

It would sound perfectly logical to you if you’d understand the nature of scientific pursuit. Your use of ‘theory’ is predictably equivocal, perhaps because you are ignorant of the nature of a scientific theory, perhaps by intent. As opposed to religious dogma, science doesn’t purport to speak truth, be it absolute or relative, it only aims to accurately model the observable world and to make testable predictions. If a better model is discovered, it will be embraced after close examination. If science happens to contradict religious dogma, science is not obliged to cater to religion; it is up to religion to reconcile what we learn of the world with the truth religion allegedly speaks.

As to the Genesis story, what is surprising about more recent religions borrowing from older ones?

 

[MarkAnthonyCozy]

jimmy:

Words are not necesary. Mother Theresa didn’t preach with words, but she was one of the best preachers of the gospel in the world.

There are books full of the quotes of Mother Teresa. Grab any Catholic catalogue and you will see them. She fulfilled the mission that God laid out for her. She mostly let God speak through her actions; this is what enabled God to work more powerfully when Mother Teresa did speak.

 

[jimmy]

wolpertinger:

It would sound perfectly logical to you if you’d understand the nature of scientific pursuit. Your use of ‘theory’ is predictably equivocal, perhaps because you are ignorant of the nature of a scientific theory, perhaps by intent. As opposed to religious dogma, science doesn’t purport to speak truth, be it absolute or relative, it only aims to accurately model the observable world and to make testable predictions. If a better model is discovered, it will be embraced after close examination. If science happens to contradict religious dogma, science is not obliged to cater to religion; it is up to religion to reconcile what we learn of the world with the truth religion allegedly speaks.

As to the Genesis story, what is surprising about more recent religions borrowing from older ones?

It is not the job of religion to cater to science either.

What are you talking about with newer religions borrowing from old? Are you saying the genesis story was borrowed from the Jews or some other old religion?

If you are speaking of the Jews, Christianity is the continuation of Judaism.

 

[jimmy]

SPOKENWORD:

Hi Jimmy,Dont you think that Mother Theresa spoke of Gods love to the people she helped. I think you are misinformed my friend. Gods Word is to be spoken. God Bless brother

She did not need to speak about it. People could see Gods love through her actions.

Now she may have spoken sometimes, but her primary form of preaching was through action.

 

[jimmy]

MarkAnthonyCozy:

There are books full of the quotes of Mother Teresa. Grab any Catholic catalogue and you will see them. She fulfilled the mission that God laid out for her. She mostly let God speak through her actions; this is what enabled God to work more powerfully when Mother Teresa did speak.

She may have spoken once in a while, but her primary form of teaching and preaching was through action. She showed Gods love in everything she did. I have seen some Mother Theresa quotes, but she did not spend her time at a pulpit preaching. She did not stand at a pulpit and give speaches and sermons about how people should live and act, she showed them.

 

[MarkAnthonyCozy]

wolpertinger:

It would sound perfectly logical to you if you’d understand the nature of scientific pursuit. Your use of ‘theory’ is predictably equivocal, perhaps because you are ignorant of the nature of a scientific theory, perhaps by intent. As opposed to religious dogma, science doesn’t purport to speak truth, be it absolute or relative, it only aims to accurately model the observable world and to make testable predictions. If a better model is discovered, it will be embraced after close examination. If science happens to contradict religious dogma, science is not obliged to cater to religion; it is up to religion to reconcile what we learn of the world with the truth religion allegedly speaks.

As to the Genesis story, what is surprising about more recent religions borrowing from older ones?

Not being a scientist, I was using the term “theory” in a general sense. So I can plead ignorance on that point!

As long as scientific pursuits remain objective we can not but embrace what we find. It is the subjective and limiting nature of men exploring our known and unknown universe and that I do not trust.