HELP with addressing a widespread abuse!

[ljubim]

The abuse is happening at at least three different parishes, has occured at two diocesan sanctioned retreats, and is promoted/aided by a local Catholic band.

What do I do? I have the argument and evidence to say that they cannot do this, do I need to meet with all of these people first? Should I have a priest on my side to help my voice be heard/legitimized? Should I just go straight to the Bishop’s office?

Please, anybody who’s been through this before, I need help!!! (and prayers )

 

[Melchior_1]

The abuse is happening at at least three different parishes, has occured at two diocesan sanctioned retreats, and is promoted/aided by a local Catholic band.

What do I do? I have the argument and evidence to say that they cannot do this, do I need to meet with all of these people first? Should I have a priest on my side to help my voice be heard/legitimized? Should I just go straight to the Bishop’s office?

Please, anybody who’s been through this before, I need help!!! (and prayers )

If I may ask…what exactly is the abuse in question?

 

[choy]

i guess the question is only about reporting abuses

well, first step is to talk with the priest. if nothing happens, if there’s a higher authority in the parish, speak with that (assuming the one committing the abuse is not the parish priest). if nothing comes out of it, then thats the time you approach someone in the bishop’s office.

 

[ljubim]

If I may ask…what exactly is the abuse in question?

It’s this.

Let’s not derail the thread(it might just turn into an argument), you can start a SPLIT if you’d like to though… Maybe somebody can let me know what to do! I’m ready, I’ve got the documents, I just don’t know where to start

 

[ljubim]

i guess the question is only about reporting abuses

well, first step is to talk with the priest. if nothing happens, if there’s a higher authority in the parish, speak with that (assuming the one committing the abuse is not the parish priest). if nothing comes out of it, then thats the time you approach someone in the bishop’s office.

That’s sort of what I know… it’s just that multiple priests are involved, and a few loose groups of lay people who coordinate it. I was able to get a list of locations and people involved, do you think it would be better to meet individually with all of them?

 

[Sherry_G]

I would keep it simple. Go the the parish priest in your own parish and discuss with him in detail giving him all the detailed information and ask him to consider discontinuing this practice, very respectfully of course and offering to provide whatever assistance you can as a very concerned and devout Catholic. Let him know he has your full support in getting this corrected. Being a parish priest is probably one of the most difficult and political appointments of all, expecially in our present times.

If this is not a fruitful discussion, and I pray that it will be, then your next step would definitely be to contact the bishop. If that doesn’t yield anything, then keep going up the chain. This will take some time.

Keep in mind that your efforts may or may not yield the desired result - a return to the proper setting for Adoration. You will have comfort in knowing that you have spoken up in truth and love. Meanwhile, I would be looking for other churches at which to attend Eucharistic Adoration.

 

[Victorious]

That’s sort of what I know… it’s just that multiple priests are involved, and a few loose groups of lay people who coordinate it. I was able to get a list of locations and people involved, do you think it would be better to meet individually with all of them?

For this kind of thing, we ought to have a barfing smilie. A liberal priest in my diocese hit the nail on the head one day when he said during a homily: “The more entertainment you need, the less faith you have.”

These abuses are tough to fight, because a lot of people don’t view them as abuses; and when you criticize the practice in question, people respond by saying, “But it’s brought me closer to God.” But there is a big difference between being brought closer to God and having your emotions manipulated. I think these sorts of things require prayer and penance to overcome.

 

[Sherry_G]

I think you would be better off to keep it simple. Just address with the parish priest. Afterall, the buck stops at his door in your parish. Hopefully you have a good relationship with him, but if there is no established relationship, be sure to keep the meeting on the level of your concern about this issue and ask for his help in resolving it. Make sure he knows that you would be willing to assist in efforts to right the situation. Sometimes a priest really is weak in some areas of formation about certain issues and he will need time to investigate or discuss with his bishop himself before taking any action.

Pray about it, be patient and charitable. Let God do the rest!

 

[diggerdomer]

It’s this.

Let’s not derail the thread(it might just turn into an argument), you can start a SPLIT if you’d like to though… Maybe somebody can let me know what to do! I’m ready, I’ve got the documents, I just don’t know where to start

What, specifically, from what you posted, is the “abuse”?

 

[Melchior_1]

What kind of “rock music”? What are some of the songs they are doing? I ask this because some people confuse anything with instruments (regardless of words and tempo) with being “rock music”. If it’s contemplative music using modern instruments, I believe that’s alright. Several retreats like the ones held at Steubenville and Cursillo do this during Adoration, with periods of silence in between.

I don’t mean to demean the fine people here, but the apologist in that thread you posted simply said “it’s wrong” without asking what what specific music is being played and didn’t post any documentation to support what she said.

To answer your original question, if it’s a real abuse (I’m not sold on the idea that this is a real abuse), I would speak with your Priest first.

 

[momor]

I read your question to the apologist and it sounds like what you were describing are particular, and I suspect somewhat rare (?) events. You said you were concerned with the music spreading to the silent adoration chapels. Is this your main concern?

I don’t see how events like those you described can become part of silent adoration in chapels set up for that purpose. You aren’t going to have rock bands playing 24/7. If that is your main concern then I would not do anything unless it encroaches on your ability to perform silent adoration. If it does, then you have something to really complain about. Otherwise I think you will just be told that many people like them and it will be suggested that you not attend the adoration events you dislike.

If you are mainly concerned that this is a liturgical abuse that is an offense to God (which I don’t see from the limited info you’ve given) then I say go to your parish priest and then to the bishop if you get no satisfaction. I see no reason to discuss your concerns with anyone else involved. It would also be helpful if there was someone besides yourself to complain along with you.

Good luck.

 

[ljubim]

Thanks!

Regardless, the apologist did state that no kind of music is appropriate. And I emailed her back for sources, here’s what she said (Hopefully she doesn’t mind me posting):

So far as I can tell, the document that outlines the rubrics of adoration is Eucharistiae Sacramentum. Since the Church ordinarily outlines what should be done during liturgical services, and not what should not be done, anything that is done should be found in the rubrics of the service. Perhaps you might take the document to your pastor and ask him where it provides for rock music during adoration. If he cannot find provision for it, ask him if there is any other authoritative document that grants permission for it. If he cannot name any, then you have grounds to ask that the music be stopped during adoration since the Church doesn’t allow for it.

Keep in mind the distinction between adoration and a eucharistic exposition service. If the rock music is being played during an exposition service, that is still a problem, but it is a problem of musical style since some sacred music is usually allowed. The argument to make then is that rock music is inappropriate because it is a secular musical form that may be okay for secular events but is not appropriate for sacred events.

I know Steubenville does this. That’s where they got the idea.

I’ll make an appointment soon with the priest(s) involved (none are my parish priests) and if nothing comes, the bishop, and then the Congregation for Divine Worship.

 

[ljubim]

What, specifically, from what you posted, is the “abuse”?

It’s linked. They have a virtual concert during adoration. Not hard rock or anything, but a guitar and piano and vocals, right behind the monstrance. Last weekend at a retreat they did it, and had confessions being heard at the same time… of the few who actually went to confession, we had trouble doing our penance because it was so loud. I got a decade of the Rosary and had to plug my ears. It is the occasion of bringing unholy things into a holy event, and making an environment of prayer impossible.

The last diocesan event with this at least gave us the option of silent adoration and one with music, they forced it on us this time.

 

[benedictgal]

I think you would be better off to keep it simple. Just address with the parish priest. Afterall, the buck stops at his door in your parish. Hopefully you have a good relationship with him, but if there is no established relationship, be sure to keep the meeting on the level of your concern about this issue and ask for his help in resolving it. Make sure he knows that you would be willing to assist in efforts to right the situation. Sometimes a priest really is weak in some areas of formation about certain issues and he will need time to investigate or discuss with his bishop himself before taking any action.

Pray about it, be patient and charitable. Let God do the rest!

The proverbial “buck” does not necessarily stop with the parish priest. It starts with him in cases like this. What needs to be done is to write to the priest in question, citing the authoritative documents of the Holy See. If the priest remains obstinate, then, a letter to the bishop is in order. When sending the letter to the bishop, include copies of the correspondence between the priest and the individual (if the priest has responded in the negative) and mail the whole package certified, return receipt requested.

if the bishop either responds in the negative or does not respond at all, then, the person should send copies of everything, including the letter to the bishop (and the negative response) to the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. They will (and have) respond. Trust me.

 

[Monica4316]

Keep in mind the distinction between adoration and a eucharistic exposition service.

What is the distinction?

 

[diggerdomer]

It’s linked. They have a virtual concert during adoration. Not hard rock or anything, but a guitar and piano and vocals, right behind the monstrance. Last weekend at a retreat they did it, and had confessions being heard at the same time… of the few who actually went to confession, we had trouble doing our penance because it was so loud. I got a decade of the Rosary and had to plug my ears. It is the occasion of bringing unholy things into a holy event, and making an environment of prayer impossible.

The last diocesan event with this at least gave us the option of silent adoration and one with music, they forced it on us this time.

What kind of music is appropriate is dependent on the context. While many of us may feel “Christian rock” is not appropriate, there is really no way to objectively rule it out. If it fosters adoration, prayer, communion with Christ, etc., for a particular community worshiping in this fashion, then it would seem ok.

 

[ljubim]

The proverbial “buck” does not necessarily stop with the parish priest. It starts with him in cases like this. What needs to be done is to write to the priest in question, citing the authoritative documents of the Holy See. If the priest remains obstinate, then, a letter to the bishop is in order. When sending the letter to the bishop, include copies of the correspondence between the priest and the individual (if the priest has responded in the negative) and mail the whole package certified, return receipt requested.

if the bishop either responds in the negative or does not respond at all, then, the person should send copies of everything, including the letter to the bishop (and the negative response) to the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. They will (and have) respond. Trust me.

Thanks! You’ve definitely helped me to get my hopes up. For a bit I had changed my mind about sending the letter. But now I will, and if it doesn’t work out, then fine, or if I’m wrong, then fine, I think God would appreciate the effort either way.

Monica: I have no idea… these apologists!

 

[Alan55]

The proverbial “buck” does not necessarily stop with the parish priest. It starts with him in cases like this. What needs to be done is to write to the priest in question, citing the authoritative documents of the Holy See. If the priest remains obstinate, then, a letter to the bishop is in order. When sending the letter to the bishop, include copies of the correspondence between the priest and the individual (if the priest has responded in the negative) and mail the whole package certified, return receipt requested.

if the bishop either responds in the negative or does not respond at all, then, the person should send copies of everything, including the letter to the bishop (and the negative response) to the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. They will (and have) respond. Trust me.

I am opposed to going to the bishop and then to Rome every time there is a perceived liturgical “abuse.” It undermines the local clergy and ties up the resources of the bishop and Roman authorities. I can’t even imagine the situation of parish priests whose every action is closely scrutinized with self-appointed liturgical watchdogs who go over his head and complain to the bishop at every turn. Why would anyone want that kind of life? Most of the time, if a bishop takes action, it is to mollify some crank and prevent controversy rather than stamp out any real and substantial offense. People think they’re benefiting the Church by enforcing the rules and rubrics, but 99% of it seems to me to just be a power trip. I just don’t get it.

 

[diggerdomer]

I am opposed to going to the bishop and then to Rome every time there is a perceived liturgical “abuse.” It undermines the local clergy and ties up the resources of the bishop and Roman authorities. I can’t even imagine the situation of parish priests whose every action is closely scrutinized with self-appointed liturgical watchdogs who go over his head and complain to the bishop at every turn. Why would anyone want that kind of life? Most of the time, if a bishop takes action, it is to mollify some crank and prevent controversy rather than stamp out any real and substantial offense. People think they’re benefiting the Church by enforcing the rules and rubrics, but 99% of it seems to me to just be a power trip. I just don’t get it.

Good points. Thanks.

 

[benedictgal]

I am opposed to going to the bishop and then to Rome every time there is a perceived liturgical “abuse.” It undermines the local clergy and ties up the resources of the bishop and Roman authorities. I can’t even imagine the situation of parish priests whose every action is closely scrutinized with self-appointed liturgical watchdogs who go over his head and complain to the bishop at every turn. Why would anyone want that kind of life? Most of the time, if a bishop takes action, it is to mollify some crank and prevent controversy rather than stamp out any real and substantial offense. People think they’re benefiting the Church by enforcing the rules and rubrics, but 99% of it seems to me to just be a power trip. I just don’t get it.

With all due respect, the Holy See does not necessarily agree with you. Sadly, liturgical abuse is wide-spread and a grave problem. Had this not been the case, Pope John Paul II would not have promulgated Redemptionis Sacramentum. What you may not understand is that the faithful have rights, according to RS:

[12.] On the contrary, it is the right of all of Christ’s faithful that the Liturgy, and in particular the celebration of Holy Mass, should truly be as the Church wishes, according to her stipulations as prescribed in the liturgical books and in the other laws and norms. Likewise, the Catholic people have the right that the Sacrifice of the Holy Mass should be celebrated for them in an integral manner, according to the entire doctrine of the Church’s Magisterium. Finally, it is the Catholic community’s right that the celebration of the Most Holy Eucharist should be carried out for it in such a manner that it truly stands out as a sacrament of unity, to the exclusion of all blemishes and actions that might engender divisions and factions in the Church.32

RS gives precise instruction as to what to do when there is a genuine liturgical abuse. Had instances of liturgial abuse not been so rampant and widespread, there would not have been any need for this document. Unfortunately, the authoritative liturgical documents of the Holy See will, sometimes, sadly go unheeded and ignored.

The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is not our own personal property that we can do with as we please. Its integrity must be safeguarded by clergy and faithful alike. What is sad is that, for the most part, the legitimate complaints are stemming from the faithful themselves and, these are, for the most part, verified and corrected by the Holy See. If the affected parties would only read and heed the documents, such corrective action would not be needed.