Help with anti - abortion sites please!

[luvthelight]

i have a friend who can be extremely liberal in some areas, but luckly is also very reasonable. now we got into a debate about abortion the other day (after our extremely liberal us history teacher casually said that she knew of a 14 year old girl who had a second trimester abortion because “she hadnt realized she was pregnant” - and she herself (the teacher) is seven monthes pregnant! - i wanted to throw up! but that is a whole other thread). so we were discussing the issue, and she is very aware of the catholic standpoint, though she is not catholic herself. i told her how early babies develope a beating heart and such, but she says that it is nothing more than a tadpole like bunch of cells. but she admits that most of what she knows comes from second hand sources, and is willing to change her mind IF i can provide solid evidence that a developing baby is more than jus random cells. i was hoping you guys could provide me with the best solid, fetal development, anti - abortion sites to help me here. thank you so much!

 

[Crow]

He who shall be man is man already.

 

[1ke]

There are tons of good fetal development websites. All of these are secular sources so they can look at them and not think it’s “pro life propoganda”.

National Geographic did an awesome special called In The Womb and showed it on the National Geographic channel.

channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/inthewomb/

About.Com has some links on it to many references:
pregnancy.about.com/od/fetus/

Here’s Medline:
nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002398.htm

Now some pro-life resources:

wprc.org/fetal.phtml (great photos on this site!)

You can also get great brochures and color pamphlets from both www.omsoul.com and www.hh76.com. They are very inexpensive.

Leonard Nilson took a lot of amazing photos in-utero many years ago (they were in my college biology book 20 years ago) and they are still the standard. You can buy his book-- A Child Is Born-- online.

 

[tamccrackine]

www.priestsforlife.org has some detailed pics of aborted babies at 8 weeks gestation… the most common time frame for abortions to occur… if that’s a “tadpole like blob of cells” then I’d like to see this instructors definition the baby she carries. Good luck and keep being the opposition in that class! you don’t know how many people you are touching because they are listening to you!
God bless
theresa

 

[luvthelight]

thank you so much guys! these sites were exactly what i was looking for. now please - pray with me that i can change my friend’s mind! (and for the little guy in my teacher’s womb)

 

[she_he]

for this one post I want to drop all religious Values just to make a statement that i am sure someone in here can take to the right people to get it fixed…

I am not a member of right to life. My reasons are simple
they have a double standard that bugs the heck out of me
and until they can fix it i wont give them a dime or sign thier stinking petitions…

the problem!

here goes and its a simple one…

all i ever see them sloganing is abortion is murder and heres the catch phrase " except in the case of rape or incest"

sorry if its murder its murder. the "baby growing cannot be a rapist or a person commitiing incest therefore that baby should not be put to death it did not a thing wrong.
so if its not murder in those instances its not murder in any other as well.

the excuse well its more traumatic on the mother having to carry to full term a baby conceved from a rape or incest is BS
its just as traumatic to force a woman to have a baby she dont want the scars are the same the body scars are the same
the feelings are the same.

get that slogan fixed and also fix the part about allowing an abortion to happen when the baby will have birth defects and i will support them.

murder is murder! cant be a 2 way street
John

 

[1ke]

she_he:

I am not a member of right to life.

all i ever see them sloganing is abortion is murder and heres the catch phrase " except in the case of rape or incest"

John,

I’m not clear on this…Are you stating you are not a member of any pro-life group nor do you give support to pro-life organizations because of “exceptions” some groups propose to allow?

If this is the case, then you have overlooked the numerous pro-life organizations that do not believe in any so-called exceptions.

Visit www.all.org or www.priestsforlife.org which are two organizations that do not believe there is any such thing as an “exception”.

If you were referring to some specific organization that claims to be pro-life and yet proclaims such as thing as an “exception”, then I urge you to write to them and explain why they hold a false and untenable position.

 

[tamccrackine]

1ke:

John,

I’m not clear on this…Are you stating you are not a member of any pro-life group nor do you give support to pro-life organizations because of “exceptions” some groups propose to allow?

If this is the case, then you have overlooked the numerous pro-life organizations that do not believe in any so-called exceptions.

Visit www.all.org or www.priestsforlife.org which are two organizations that do not believe there is any such thing as an “exception”.

If you were referring to some specific organization that claims to be pro-life and yet proclaims such as thing as an “exception”, then I urge you to write to them and explain why they hold a false and untenable position.

John… I concur with this above!!!

 

[YADA]

Check out standupgirl.com/

A truly wonderful site that has had more than 7075512 visitors and has saved many babies from death. It is a positive web site geared to young women. This web site provides real person to person type of assistance to women considering abortion. It is also a powerful site for young men and those who want to work to an end to abortion.

Check it out, spend 15 minutes, you won’t regret it!!!

 

[she_he]

Thanks for the information i will be checking it out.
I was actually figuring i was going to be slammed bad on that post but them “exceptions” have bugged me for years.

              Thanks 
                    John

 

[YADA]

My state’s right to life organization works for many life causes. At times they have supported legislation that may contain the ‘exceptions’ you identified. That does not mean that they are "for the exceptions’

As an example, if you could get politicians to vote for a law that would end abortion for all except in the case of rape or incest, but those same politicians would NEVER vote for a complete ban, should you work to get the law passed?

I say yes, as rape and incest represent less than 1% of abortions performed in this country. My state alone aborts nearly 14,000 each year. If my Right to Life organization works to pass that legislation, you won’t support them. But if that legislation is passed the number of abortions fall from 14,000 to 140. I say pass the legislation that saves the 13,860 then begin to work on the 140.

For those who say there is no compromise, the lives of the 13,860 children are sacraficed on the altar of perfection. If we only lived in a sin free world, Jesus ran for every office and headed all organizations!!! Then we would not even have this discussion, I wish it were so.

Until then, I’ll take and support every measure, even if it is just parental notification, or no abortions in the third tri- mester…

Remember every journey begins with a SINGLE STEP

Pax

 

[she_he]

Hello again:

I would never support that legislation for one prime reason and I do understand how you feel and can agree as well but still couldnt support because of the “rape clause” esspecially.
all that will manage to do is cause more people to cry rape to get that abortion, People will go to jail unfairly in a lot of cases…
and to possibly ruin ones life to save another is not justifiable in this situation because maybe the person whom went to jail
repented his sins went on to have a “normal” marriage and would have had for sake of arguement 6 kids those 6 babies have now in essence been denied thier right to life to save one, now how many babies would have been born of that 6?

you see how legislation such as that is a spinning top out of control

at least if nothing else you can see where i am coming from on this one and why…

 Thanks 
       John

 

[1ke]

YADA,

Incrementalism is a plague upon pro-life groups. It is a false and dangerous position. I would urge you to visit ALL’s website and learn why this is such a dangerous and counterproductive position to hold. It does more for the pro-abortion agenda than it ever does for the pro-life agenda.

And, it gives pro-aborts a perfect example of hypocrisy in pro-lifers. It is nothing but hypocrisy because it denies the humanity of a group of children-- the “exception” children.

 

[jebojora]

There is no compromise. Life is always precious…that can never be compromised.

There is a thread here somewhere on this same thing and some posts from people who had children by rape or are children of rape. The posts are beautiful. No one can know the plan of God…to allow a child to be murdered because of the circumstances of the conception is to devalue life and therefore undermines the entire pro-life movement.

We cannot play God in deciding one life is more important then another or that a life is not worth living.

 

[koda]

she_he:

Thanks for the information i will be checking it out.
I was actually figuring i was going to be slammed bad on that post but them “exceptions” have bugged me for years.

              Thanks 
                    John

I understand where you are coming from but have a question. Have you ever been raped? I have. You have no idea - and you probably never will as you are a man. If I were impregnanted due to rape and had no choice but to carry the baby to term I confess that I might consider suicide. I respectfully suggest that you pray about this. You seem to have no feelings whatsoever about the victim of rape. It is all very fine for you to say there should be no exceptions but you should consider the sanity of the victim. As a victim, I can say to you that you have no idea what you are talking about. Yes, abortion is wrong. But Dear God, have some compassion and mercy for the woman who has gone thru such a terrible ordeal, so terrible that there are no words to adequately describe it.

 

[1ke]

koda:

I understand where you are coming from but have a question. Have you ever been raped? I have.

I am sorry for this tragedy and violence perpetrated on you.

koda:

You have no idea - and you probably never will as you are a man.

Well, I am a woman, so I do have “an idea” and I 100% agree that there is no such thing as an “exception” for abortion.

koda:

If I were impregnanted due to rape and had no choice but to carry the baby to term I confess that I might consider suicide. I respectfully suggest that you pray about this.

Some rape victims consider suicide even when they do not become pregnant. And, research shows a very high percentage of women who choose an abortion consider-- and many commit-- suicide. So, a rape victim who has an abortion is doubly at risk for these types of thoughts. All rape victims should get intense counseling, as should women who are abortion victims.

Abortion is never the answer to a problem-- it is only trading one problem for another.

koda:

You seem to have no feelings whatsoever about the victim of rape.

That is not it at all. It has nothing to do with having feelings for the victim of rape. It is about the humanity of the child. A human person has involate dignity, value, and right to life. You are a victim because you were raped. Every child who is killed by abortion is a victim as well-- a real, living person who is killed.

koda:

It is all very fine for you to say there should be no exceptions but you should consider the sanity of the victim. As a victim, I can say to you that you have no idea what you are talking about.

The sanctity of a human life is inviolate and therefore there is nothing to consider.

koda:

Yes, abortion is wrong. But

If you truly believe abortion is wrong because it is the killing of a human person… then there can be no “But” following that statement.

koda:

Dear God, have some compassion and mercy for the woman who has gone thru such a terrible ordeal, so terrible that there are no words to adequately describe it.

Leading a person to commit a mortally sinful act, to take the life of another person, is not compassion. Leading a woman to do an act of violence and agression against another human person is not compassion. Trying to convince a woman she will feel better if she opens herself up to another invasive attack on her person and her child and kills that child is not compassion. Convincing a victim of rape-- who is vulnerable and looking for support and healing-- that they should kill their own child is the most heinous thing that anyone can do to a rape victim.

 

[she_he]

koda:

I understand where you are coming from but have a question. Have you ever been raped? I have. You have no idea - and you probably never will as you are a man. If I were impregnanted due to rape and had no choice but to carry the baby to term I confess that I might consider suicide. I respectfully suggest that you pray about this. You seem to have no feelings whatsoever about the victim of rape. It is all very fine for you to say there should be no exceptions but you should consider the sanity of the victim. As a victim, I can say to you that you have no idea what you are talking about. Yes, abortion is wrong. But Dear God, have some compassion and mercy for the woman who has gone thru such a terrible ordeal, so terrible that there are no words to adequately describe it.

Hello:

First off I am going to let you know right off the bat here I Have been a karate Instructor for 14 years,I teach self defense to woman and donate my time (actually lose primary work hours and money) to teach high school and college girls self defense from attacks,I have and still teach prison guards and police officers self defense.have i been involved with rape Victims
you bet i have,as far as my True stand on Abortion goes
only god knows my feelings.
but to clear up a few things that have been UNDER read
you state you are a victim of rape I am sorry to hear that.
but the reasons for my post as stated was
if a woman wants to obtain an abortion But is not allowed to do so
But a woman whom is raped is allowed to do so 2 things came to mind quickly
one the woman whom is not allowed could easily say that by not allowing her under those circumstances she too is being raped her body is being forced to be changed forever and she dont want it to happen and in essence there was no physical attack But by sheer fact she is being “forced” to do something that is in fact a definition of rape.

the other thing that comes to mind would be the sudden uprise of
reported rapes when a girl finds out she is pregnant,afterall under the post i replied to we have to assume abortion is only for rape and incest victims so this gal wants an abortion Knows she cant have one so claims rape now legal ramifications may make her lie and send a man to jail whom did not rape but they had “consentual sex” I hope i have explained this so its understandable,I am not nor ever have been feelingless towards rape victims, matter of fact when i finish my conversion and have to confess some of the things i have to confess are violence to my fellow man for just such things,( luckily didnt quite make homicide charges) but the rapist sure wished he was dead.
worst part about this is if i caught a guy doing this i would do it again and without remorse, 2 men are actually very lucky i didnt have a knife with me when i caught them or they would have surely died choking to death. see I am a sinner as well and have a long ways to go before i am ready.as for thinking about suicide
I have been there thought about it a lot,but thats a whole different story…

Now just for a simple clarification i have problems with anything that has a double standard whether i agree with it or not is irrelevant anything that has a double standard is unjust and unfair
and should be addressed… A “pro life” group claims abortion is murder except for rape or incest well if its murder its murder
the baby of a rape victim is no more guilty of anything that a baby of a non rape victim that is my stand…

Just like i got slammed by a few people because of my stand on the support of Planned Parenthood Classes
my support is for the good they do to our youth
has nothing to do with making access to Birth control easy.
or because they support “SOME” abortion clinics.
But I have actually attended some of the classes they have and know 1st hand what they teach i dont slam from hearsay…

I hope you more understand me now and dont assume i am feelingless.that is so far from the truth…

Peace be with you 
                John

 

[tamccrackine]

1ke:

Leading a person to commit a mortally sinful act, to take the life of another person, is not compassion. Leading a woman to do an act of violence and agression against another human person is not compassion. Trying to convince a woman she will feel better if she opens herself up to another invasive attack on her person and her child and kills that child is not compassion. Convincing a victim of rape-- who is vulnerable and looking for support and healing-- that they should kill their own child is the most heinous thing that anyone can do to a rape victim.

Very well said 1ke… I really like the way you phrased the last response.

I will have to look at the ALL site… I saw a small show on them and a band of college students that went to NYC and was amazed by the determination of the group. I praise them that they are out there “on the front lines” as I don’t have the courage (yet).

It’s horrible when people think that abortion will help a rape/incest victim. I quoted something similar to what you wrote (not as elegant though) on a natural mama’s board in an abortion debate and I got slammed because (as they claimed) I don’t have feelings about women that are raped. I’ve been raped and yes, it’s a very scary thing, very diabolical and makes you feel so inferior. But I’m a firm believer that if a woman is impregnanted by a rape, having that child is a way to gain her sense of control back, a way to gain her sense of self to get over that violated feeling. Why subject her to an abortion when that, in and of itself, is another “rape” on her body AND killing of another human? Dr. Therese Burke explains that very well in her book Forgiven Grief .

I’m off mysoap box…

 

[jebojora]

tamccrackine:

I will have to look at the ALL site… I saw a small show on them and a band of college students that went to NYC and was amazed by the determination of the group. I praise them that they are out there “on the front lines” as I don’t have the courage (yet).

ALL is a wonderful organization. I attend the pro-llife march in Washington DC every year (coming up on January 23rd) and they have a huge attendance. Mostly young people. It’s such a miracle to see them there.

My niece went on the Crusade for Life this past summer. It’s sponsored by ALL… They walked from Maine to Pennsylvania (I think) and stopped at different parishes along the way to support pro-life and answer questions. These young people gave up their entire summer to do this.

Anyway, I’ve ordered t-shirts and bumper stickers from ALL. They have a lot of pamphlets, videos etc. available. One of their videos shows an actual abortion…not something I want or need to see…but maybe some people do.

I get their monthly magazine with stories and pro-life information. It is very intersesting reading.

all.org/

 

[Isilzha]

I have such a hard time debating pro-choicers in general, they think about things in a way so different then me that discussions are hard for me to get through.