Help with apologetics and "Christian" sects

  • Thread starter Thread starter theidler
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

theidler

Guest
Hi everyone,
I’m having a tremendous amount of difficulty with debating, witnessing to, and engaging in apologetics with the various “Christian” sects and cults out there. It’s become an exercise in absolute frustration for me, as it just seems like members of these groups literally have blinders on and can’t even hear a word you say.
I’m speaking of these groups:
Jehovah’s Witnesses
Mormons
Christadelphians
Seventh-Day Adventists
Armstrong followers (Church of God groups)
etc. etc. etc.

How does one witness to members of these groups without losing their cool? I am finding that it is hurting my efforts to be charitable and patient when I deal with members of these groups because they just seem to have no sense of reason or common sense. Should I just stop even debating them? I don’t even know. Being raised in Seventh-Day Adventism, I have a strong urge to try and help others out of these groups and into at least some form of actual Christianity (be it Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant)…I have real zeal for it. But when it comes down to the nitty gritty, I feel like I might as well debate the cat - it just goes nowhere.

Help guys…what do you do in these situations? What are your feelings about it all? Are we to actively debate with these groups or should we just leave them alone or?🤷
 
We need to be careful and define “cult”.

Why? well because many within the faiths you mentioned claim that Catholics are a cult. Its frustrating to go back n forth.
 
Because we all hold pride in our choice of religion, debate is rather worthless as an evangelizing tool. Religion then becomes a “you win” and “I loose” type of game. Rather like two people arguing over whose Grandma is the better person.

We want people to embrace the Church that we love.

If…people are interested in what the Church teaches, be able to tell and show them what she believes.
 
Savior2012 said:
We need to be careful and define “cult”.

Why? well because many within the faiths you mentioned claim that Catholics are a cult. Its frustrating to go back n forth.
Click to expand...
And, in the Catechism, our Catholic practice is defined as a cult, because we are One in our belief and our practices.
 
I believe the Catholic Church believes Seventh Day Adventists to be “actual Christianity” as much as any other Protestant group.
catholic.com/tracts/seventh-day-adventism
By virtue of their valid baptism, and their belief in Christ’s divinity and in the doctrine of the Trinity, Seventh-Day Adventists are both ontologically and theologically Christians. But Christians, once separated from the Church our Lord founded, are susceptible to being “tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine” (Eph. 4:14).
Click to expand...
NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials
presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors.
Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004
Click to expand...
 
3ABN (Seventh Day Adventist) had a preacher/speaker on a couple of weeks ago for an hour long bash Catholicism program. Jim Reinking’s “Life Discovery” series.

🤷
 
theidler said:
Hi everyone,
I’m having a tremendous amount of difficulty with debating, witnessing to, and engaging in apologetics with the various “Christian” sects and cults out there. It’s become an exercise in absolute frustration for me, as it just seems like members of these groups literally have blinders on and can’t even hear a word you say.
I’m speaking of these groups:
Jehovah’s Witnesses
Mormons
Christadelphians
Seventh-Day Adventists
Armstrong followers (Church of God groups)
etc. etc. etc.

How does one witness to members of these groups without losing their cool? I am finding that it is hurting my efforts to be charitable and patient when I deal with members of these groups because they just seem to have no sense of reason or common sense. Should I just stop even debating them? I don’t even know. Being raised in Seventh-Day Adventism, I have a strong urge to try and help others out of these groups and into at least some form of actual Christianity (be it Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant)…I have real zeal for it. But when it comes down to the nitty gritty, I feel like I might as well debate the cat - it just goes nowhere.

Help guys…what do you do in these situations? What are your feelings about it all? Are we to actively debate with these groups or should we just leave them alone or?🤷
Click to expand...
I just started a Bible study at my home. Two of the couples are not Catholic. I’m doing a video series by Scott Hahn and Jeff Cavins “Our Father’s Plan” I choose to evangelize this way because it’s not a “Debate” we answer questions and watch Dr. Hahn and J. Cavins. I let the “experts” give the whys and therefores. That way it stays civil, My guests can argue with the TV but alas, even Dr. Hahn as good as he is, is not Omniscient!
I’m a former fundamentalist / evangelical so I know the points to bring up, but once you start going back and forth with someone it “May” take a downward spiral. Anyway it’s the Holy Spirit who will do the eye/heart opening to the truth.
God Bless!
 
theidler said:
How does one witness to members of these groups without losing their cool?
Click to expand...
Losing your cool is going to turn them away, it will also not help you. I would suggest the (alleged) advice of Saint Francis: “Preach always, use words if you have to.” If using words leads to anger (both yours and theirs) then don’t use words. Preach in other ways.

$0.02

rossum
 
rossum said:
Losing your cool is going to turn them away, it will also not help you. I would suggest the (alleged) advice of Saint Francis: “Preach always, use words if you have to.” If using words leads to anger (both yours and theirs) then don’t use words. Preach in other ways.

$0.02

rossum
Click to expand...
Rossum, That is good advice. However, Your signature is a logical fallacy:D
Peace
David
 
theidler said:
Hi everyone,
I’m having a tremendous amount of difficulty with debating, witnessing to, and engaging in apologetics with the various “Christian” sects and cults out there. It’s become an exercise in absolute frustration for me, as it just seems like members of these groups literally have blinders on and can’t even hear a word you say.
I’m speaking of these groups:
Jehovah’s Witnesses
Mormons
Christadelphians
Seventh-Day Adventists
Armstrong followers (Church of God groups)
etc. etc. etc.

How does one witness to members of these groups without losing their cool? I am finding that it is hurting my efforts to be charitable and patient when I deal with members of these groups because they just seem to have no sense of reason or common sense. Should I just stop even debating them? I don’t even know. Being raised in Seventh-Day Adventism, I have a strong urge to try and help others out of these groups and into at least some form of actual Christianity (be it Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant)…I have real zeal for it. But when it comes down to the nitty gritty, I feel like I might as well debate the cat - it just goes nowhere.

Help guys…what do you do in these situations? What are your feelings about it all? Are we to actively debate with these groups or should we just leave them alone or?🤷
Click to expand...
Welcome Home! I appreciate your zeal to spread the Gospel, however, I 'm sure you know by now that debating (arguing about it really) is not the best way to go. The Holy Spirit is really the one who changes hearts and minds, we are just his servants. All you have to do is set an example to others and live your life according to your new faith. When people see the change in you, they will be interested and want to know what you have that they don’t, then is the time to start discussions and answer questions. It is a long, slow process but you never know who you may inspire and never, ever know about it.
 
Catholic1954 said:
Welcome Home! I appreciate your zeal to spread the Gospel, however, I 'm sure you know by now that debating (arguing about it really) is not the best way to go. The Holy Spirit is really the one who changes hearts and minds, we are just his servants. All you have to do is set an example to others and live your life according to your new faith. When people see the change in you, they will be interested and want to know what you have that they don’t, then is the time to start discussions and answer questions. It is a long, slow process but you never know who you may inspire and never, ever know about it.
Click to expand...
Thank you - I am not home yet, but I’m running down the hill and to my Father’s door so fast that my shoes have long slipped off and are lying on the ground somewhere.
 
theidler said:
Hi everyone,
I’m having a tremendous amount of difficulty with debating, witnessing to, and engaging in apologetics with the various “Christian” sects and cults out there. It’s become an exercise in absolute frustration for me, as it just seems like members of these groups literally have blinders on and can’t even hear a word you say.
I’m speaking of these groups:
Jehovah’s Witnesses
Mormons
Christadelphians
Seventh-Day Adventists
Armstrong followers (Church of God groups)
etc. etc. etc.

How does one witness to members of these groups without losing their cool? I am finding that it is hurting my efforts to be charitable and patient when I deal with members of these groups because they just seem to have no sense of reason or common sense. Should I just stop even debating them? I don’t even know. Being raised in Seventh-Day Adventism, I have a strong urge to try and help others out of these groups and into at least some form of actual Christianity (be it Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant)…I have real zeal for it. But when it comes down to the nitty gritty, I feel like I might as well debate the cat - it just goes nowhere.

Help guys…what do you do in these situations? What are your feelings about it all? Are we to actively debate with these groups or should we just leave them alone or?🤷
Click to expand...
In my opinion, it is good to share the truth to any who will listen. But, I would not waste a lot of time on it, if they will not hear it. I think it is best to show them from the Scripture where their own beliefs are heretical. So, in order to do so…you’ll at least need to know a few of those such beliefs.

Whenever a JW or Mormon comes to my door, I try to just ask them if I can show them a couple of verses and have their opinion on it. I usually choose a passage that is evidence of the Trinity or that shows that our Lord IS God incarnate. If they want to hear more, then they can contact me or I would just ask them to please prayerfully consider these things.

There were a few times that I did allow some to come back (because they wanted to share more information with me), but I never felt very comfortable with it. I copied out a list of their “prophesies” and asked them about several that had failed, and showed them in Scripture where it says:

Deuteronomy 18:20 But the prophet, who being corrupted with pride, shall speak in my name things that I did not command him to say, or in the name of strange gods, shall be slain. 21 And if in silent thought thou answer: How shall I know the word that the Lord hath not spoken? 22 Thou shalt have this sign: Whatsoever that same prophet foretelleth in the name of the Lord, and it cometh not to pass: that thing the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath forged it by the pride of his mind: and therefore thou shalt not fear him.

On two different occasions, when I did speak with the Mormons, I asked them if they wouldn’t mind looking at a list I had that shows their doctrines and Scripture that appears to refute that doctrine…they said they would look it over and get back with me. Both times, no one came back. 🤷
Barbkw said:
If…people are interested in what the Church teaches, be able to tell and show them what she believes.
Click to expand...
👍
 
David said:
Rossum, That is good advice. However, Your signature is a logical fallacy:D
Click to expand...
My sig is a tongue in cheek summary of the Madhyamika Buddhist position on ultimates:

The emptiness of emptiness is the fact that not even emptiness exists ultimately, that it is also dependent, conventional, nominal, and in the end it is just the everydayness of the everyday. Penetrating to the depths of being, we find ourselves back on the surface of things and so discover that there is nothing, after all, beneath those deceptive surfaces. Moreover, what is deceptive about them is simply the fact that we assume ontological depth lurking just beneath.

– Jay Garfield, “Empty words, Buddhist philosophy and cross-cultural interpretation.” OUP 2002.

rossum
 
It is frustrating. I have some family who are Oneness Pentecostals and it is extraordinarily difficult to have a conversation on faith with them since they are wrapped in Sola Scriptura and aren’t willing to acknowledge that there is a distinction between Scripture and their interpretation of Scripture or that they even have a tradition. They claim, though it is absurd on its face, that a particular teaching is clearly taught in Scripture. The most recent discussion with them was concerning baptism in Jesus name only. They’ll make historical claims and refuse to accept non-Scriptural sources that refute those historical claims. It requires exceptional patience. Dr. Hahn says that Sola Scriptura must be the first thing to overcome or else they will never move beyond their presumptions.

If you tend to lose your temper try to have your discussions over email. That way you can monitor your emotions and not respond uncharitably.
 
theidler said:
Hi everyone,
I’m having a tremendous amount of difficulty with debating, witnessing to, and engaging in apologetics with the various “Christian” sects and cults out there. It’s become an exercise in absolute frustration for me, as it just seems like members of these groups literally have blinders on and can’t even hear a word you say.
I’m speaking of these groups:
Jehovah’s Witnesses
Mormons
Christadelphians
Seventh-Day Adventists
Armstrong followers (Church of God groups)
etc. etc. etc.

How does one witness to members of these groups without losing their cool? I am finding that it is hurting my efforts to be charitable and patient when I deal with members of these groups because they just seem to have no sense of reason or common sense. Should I just stop even debating them? I don’t even know. Being raised in Seventh-Day Adventism, I have a strong urge to try and help others out of these groups and into at least some form of actual Christianity (be it Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant)…I have real zeal for it. But when it comes down to the nitty gritty, I feel like I might as well debate the cat - it just goes nowhere.

Help guys…what do you do in these situations? What are your feelings about it all? Are we to actively debate with these groups or should we just leave them alone or?🤷
Click to expand...
Did they asked to be witnessed to? I mean normally I witness by my actions and faith not by my ability to debate. Unless you are being asked a question there really is no reason to use apologetics in relationship to these faiths. For all intent and purpose they are happy just the way they are!

Having worked with conversion in teens, I can say the only way is to be of faith yourself. I’m not even an apologist, and I certainly do not have canon law down. But I do have faith and I do have a pastoral view that is filled with love for mankind as children of God. I also have no issue praying with non-catholics including jews, mormons, Jehovah’s, adventists (there’s more than just the one group), charismatics, evangelicals, missionaries, etc. I learn a lot from them, and respect their choice to love God and their efforts (as they vary) to accept Jesus Christ. This is our common ground that we share. I can break bread with my others regardless of these views. When doing so I almost hardly saying anything about my own religion unless I’m searing for a way to ask a question from a reference point. But breaking bread and praying with others is not the same as congregating with them.

Over time if you have a open heart, you will be sought out if the holy spirit wills it. One thing I do that seems to help is to be quiet. Let them talk and if they have no questions then you do not need to speak unless you have a question. I think when it happens I’m not even trying to convert anyone…that’s just how it seems to work. Let them come to you, and you wiil see their hearts and minds are open as the Holy Spirit wishes.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top