Help with 'Catholicism Against Itself'

[BigTurkey]

Hey guys,

As many of you know by now, I am a member of the Church of Christ that is interested in the Catholic Faith and I am studying it seriously and intensely. I have been talking to my father about it a few times a week. He, in turn, mentioned it his preacher, who ordered O. C. Lambert’s Catholicism Against Itself. O. C. Lambert was a church of Christ preacher back in the late 1800s early 1900s. He was a preacher in a heavily Catholic area of the USA. He studied the councils and encycicals, and ended up compiling a book of contradictory statements issued by the Catholic Church. Anyway, my father wants to study this book. I want to also. However, I had heard from a friend of mine, who is a former Church of Christ preacher now turned Catholic, who said that he studied this book and it turned out to be seriously mistaken. He said that the book takes things out of context, or the book quotes things from non-authoritative sources. Anyway, I was wondering if any of you had any experiences with this book. Or, do you recommend some way for me to approach this book? Also, are there any books out there that refutes books that take a similar approach?

-Micah

 

[scylla]

Most books like that are addressed by articles, like the ones here on Catholic Answers. I will see if I can find them. I am also just bumping this as a Catholic I have a small collection of anti-catholic books which I am reading to better understand arguements against Catholicism.
Here is one link, it doesn’t address this book wholly but does give you a little bit about this type thing.
bringyou.to/apologetics/debate2.htm
This interests me too. So I will keep looking.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[John_Taylor]

Hello Micah,

I started out Catholic, lost the faith, embraced athiestic humanism, then later embraced Mormonism, then Church of Christ, until finally returning to the Catholic Church with a most convinced faith.

It was in my 20’s that I was influenced to some extent by the book Catholicism Against Itself and converted to the Church of Christ faith for a short time as a result. I received baptism by immersion from one of their teachers but could never bring myself to share their communion…my memories of the Real Presence of Christ in the Catholic Eucharist was just too real for me to ever repudiate. Later, upon further study and reflection…especially after reading the writings of the pre-Nicene Apostolic Fathers…I returned to Catholicism and have been a convinced Catholic ever since.

If you’d like, I’d be willing to get a copy of the book and work through it with you point by point. The book is indeed full of half-truths and misrepresentations of both history and Catholic teaching.

Let me know how you might want to proceed. We can do this privately or you can post a point made in the book and let me and others answer it on this thread.

God bless your studies.

Keep the Faith
John

 

[John_Taylor]

Micah, there were two points that turned me away from Church of Christ teaching. The first was the superior arguments for a literal interpretation of John Chapter 6 on the “eating and drinking” of the “body and blood” of Christ and the second was the self-defeating Church of Christ founding prinicple: “speak where the Bible speaks, be silent where the Bible is silent.” Since such a statement is nowhere found in Scripture then isn’t the prinicple being violated by the very statement itself since it “speaks” where the Bible is “silent”?

After these two points convinced me to leave the Church of Christ, the historical continuity of Catholcism is what ultimately led me back to the Catholic Faith.

Keep the Faith
John

 

[maesoph]

I have not read that exact book, but I am familiar enough with literature of that nature to know that I could write a book entitled “The Bible Against Itself” by using the same shoddy arguments and principles.

 

[PhilVaz]

Yeah I dealt with this book “Catholicism Against Itself” long ago on FidoNet. I used to have an abridged paperback edition (based on 2 longer volumes) that supposedly quoted the Catholic Encyclopedia (1913) and other sources. It was difficult tracking down the sources since I wasn’t on the Internet at the time (1995), but see my Bateman on Trial for a few quotes from the O.C. Lambert book, and my responses.

PROSECUTOR – PHIL PORVAZNIK
DEFENSE – KIM YONG-JAE

The CHARGES brought against the DEFENDANT, Charles Bateman –

(1) 55 counts of Catholic Bashing in the First Degree

(2) 95 counts of misuse, abuse, exegetical and contextual murder of an innocent, defenseless Encyclopedia – specifically, THE CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA of 15 volumes (c) 1913

(3) 173 counts of illogical and irrelevant arguments against the Catholic Church

(4) 500 counts of plagiarizing copyrighted anti-Catholic material without giving the author any credit and claiming it as one’s own

(5) and 1 count of using the word “Popery”

Charles (Darwin) Bateman on Trial, this was at the height of the O.J. Simpson trial which explains the trial references.

Phil P

 

[system]

can u share a copy? dennisejwl@gmail.com

Hello Micah,

I started out Catholic, lost the faith, embraced athiestic humanism, then later embraced Mormonism, then Church of Christ, until finally returning to the Catholic Church with a most convinced faith.

It was in my 20’s that I was influenced to some extent by the book Catholicism Against Itself and converted to the Church of Christ faith for a short time as a result. I received baptism by immersion from one of their teachers but could never bring myself to share their communion…my memories of the Real Presence of Christ in the Catholic Eucharist was just too real for me to ever repudiate. Later, upon further study and reflection…especially after reading the writings of the pre-Nicene Apostolic Fathers…I returned to Catholicism and have been a convinced Catholic ever since.

If you’d like, I’d be willing to get a copy of the book and work through it with you point by point. The book is indeed full of half-truths and misrepresentations of both history and Catholic teaching.

Let me know how you might want to proceed. We can do this privately or you can post a point made in the book and let me and others answer it on this thread.

God bless your studies.

Keep the Faith
John