Help with debating a Mormon

[twopekinguys]

Sure. It is in the book called: Sex Lives of the Popes, written by Nigel Cawthorne. Published by Prion in Great Britain 1996 and reprinted in 1997.

Nigel Cawthorne (born 27 March 1951) is a writer of **fiction **and non-fiction, and an editor.

So much for any substantial proof.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Cawthorne

You really should find a “reliable” source.

Now we have here, a list of By’s wives, all 50+ of them.

Considering that BY was born in 1801, and the vast majority of his wives were somewhere around 20 years younger than him at the time of their “marriage”, his nick name may not have been Bring-em Young, but it sure sound like he said it.

utlm.org/onlineresources/brighamyoungswives.htm

 

[AMDGtoo]

It being an occult is a fact not an opinion. Please look up the definition of an occult and also what disqualifies a group from being christian.

Actually, I think you may want to provide the definitions of both “cult” and “occult”.

 

[Kdesiel]

Popes are men, men are not perfect. Yes there are some Popes who committed greivous sins but as Rebecca pointed out they never preached their sins as Doctine from the Pulpit. They didn’t try to mislead the church into thier own evil ways.
Joseph Smith instituted Polygamy due to his lust for women, thats about the only pure and simple truth in that teaching. He was a carnal man, he wanted to institute a philosophy of carnality into his “New and Revealed” Gospel in order to justify his carnal ways. Brigham Young was no different. In fact if it wasn’t for the U.S. Government today All of the Heiarchy within the LDS Church would be promoting and practicing Polygamy, if it wasn’t for the Law then they would be supporting and participating in it today. The Mormon Church brings “New Revelation” when it is needed to Justify their own doctrinal short comings, to cover thier own misjudgements and error. This is calssic cult information management in order to control the masses they have in their grasp. Shrouding their vision to what the Mormon Church really is.

They expressly Preach against Gods church. Being born in the LDS faith and living 25 years in its grasp I know for a fact The LDS Church preaches The Catholic Church “Is the Whore of all the earth.” among other ugly and perverse descriptions. Like Jake I cannot count how many times I’ve heard this spewed from a Pulpit, read it in Mormon Doctrine, hissed in jokes while attending “Elders Quorum”. To tell me Mormons don’t preach or believe that is a blatant lie. All the evidence points to such. We have documents authored by not memebers of the LDS church but of Prophets and Apostles of the Church stating these things. Now if for some reasons their statements have changed how inspired can these teaching be?

Whyme I would love to disscuss, but as I said before when the other party refuses to address the issues on the table, to validate their responses with fact and polite coherent thought then they(you) cause contentsion you cause strife and it degrades into a name calling argument. So by all means lets discuss but bring something to the table other than half truths, immature name calling. Bring something of substance. The person who is in need of “Admonishment” here is you.

 

[Stephen168]

. Of course we can also bring up Pope Benedict VI who was John XIII successor. He was the illegitimate son of a monk.

How someone is conceived matters to Mormons, that is why they now say it is OK to kill unborn babies for the same reason

 

[Stephen168]

Perhaps I can agree except with the oocult part but certain posters are not acting like they are members of Christ’s church. And that is my point.

How an individual who claims to be Catholic acts does not change the true teaching of the Catholic Church. The Mormon Church teaches sinful behavior (as revelation), the Catholic Church does not teach sinful behavior. That is our point. But you must ignore our point to try to justify the sins of Mormonism. You and other Mormons do it over and over again.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

Catholics do not feel god. They only reason God? Really?

I think the point is that we do not have to check our “reason” at the door in order to feel God. The implication being that in order to feel the god of mormonism one is required to suspend reason and disbelief.

Peace,
Robert

 

[Javl]

I quit trying to dialogue with a Mormon. Their mindset is such that you cannot reason with them. They cannot see their hand in front of their face because of the fog they’re in.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[dianaiad]

I quit trying to dialogue with a Mormon. Their mindset is such that you cannot reason with them. They cannot see their hand in front of their face because of the fog they’re in.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

And of course your method of discourse is so very inviting…

 

[Robert_in_SD]

This kind of “health science” was all the rage during the early-middle 19th century (as it is today) and rode the coat tails of the then-powerful temperance movement. Emma Smith was a firm believer in it. LDS church history acknowleges that Emma Smith was the impetus behind the Word of Wisdom. I believe that D&C 89 was Joseph’s “payment” to Emma in exchange for what later became D&C 132 (revelation on polygamy).

The WoW condemns the use of alcohol, tobacco, “hot drinks” and meat. All of these were popular health fads of the time. Modern LDS are at a loss to understand the prohibition on “hot drinks”. That is because they don’t know their history.

The WoW statement about hot drinks came from the popular medical notions of the time. The book Colon Hygiene: Comprising New and Important Facts Concerning the Physiology of the Colon, by John Harvey Kellogg (of Corn Flakes and The Road to Wellville fame) stated in 1915:

The LDS have been trying to justify the mysterious “hot drinks” proscription ever since. Since about 1920, “hot drinks” has been interpreted to mean coffee and tea, though they’ve never been able to explain what is wrong with these substances. The WoW is about health. There is nothing unhealthful about coffee or tea - quite the opposite in fact. The LDS interpretation of “hot drinks” has resulted in the LDS shunning and demonizing coffee and tea, which have been proven to be healthful, and guzzling down cases of Mountain Dew and other sodas, which is known to be very unhealthy (some doctors call it poison), with their church leaders’ approval.

Paul

Wow! This sheds much light on what I always perceived to be such an inconsistent practice. No coffee or tea because “no hot drinks” but hot chocolate is ok. Huh? Well there’s no caffeine in hot chocolate. Then why not drink decaffeinated coffee? Because mormons can’t drink hot drinks… But hot chocolate is hot… the name even has the word “hot” in it, right. But its okay because there’s no caffeine. So, if you’re not allowed to have caffeine, then you can’t have pepsi either, right. Sure, because it’s not a hot drink. uch:

Why not just issue a WoW that says no caffeine? Or better yet, change the WoW to say that you can have coffee or tea, but do so only in moderation, and in a manner that is healthy.

Peace,
Robert

 

[Kdesiel]

LDS women.
If Plural marriage wasn’t outlawed in the U.S. would you participate with your Husbands in practicing Plural marriage?

There is documentation illistrating that Joseph Smith was sealed to women who were already in the bounds of marriage, if you were married to your husband and he(your husband) were still alive and the Prophet approached you to be sealed to him in the Temple would you do it?

If Plural Marriage were legal, subsequently being practiced by the LDS today would you still be a member?

If plural marriage were being practiced today share your views on Warren Jeffs.

If the Government were to Legalize plural marriage tomorrow what would the answers to the above questions be?

What came to my mind one day was when my wife approached me with a concern and a question regarding plural marriage, I looked at her, and although I had heard the doctrine and thought I had understood it, I felt instantly how wrong this teaching was. For me to even put someone, another woman on her same level, to love both emotionally and physically, to have to share my affections among multiple persons, the thought of how that might make my wife feel.
Also switch roles. If plural marriage were to change by “New Revelation” from the Prophet stating that it is now ok for your wife to enjoy multiple husbands how would you cope. To share your wife with a brother, or a freind, a fellow church goer in your ward…yeah I’m getting a sick stomach just typing it. It all sounds totally outlandish. Your initial reaction may be “Oh that could never happen” or “The day’s of plural marriage are over.”
Well it did happen. Men were allowed mulitple wives, some men like Joseph Smith were allowed access to wives while they were married to other LIVING men.
If it trully is a revelation of divine nature, a comandment of God, then it is also an eternal principle so the day’s of Plural marriage can’t and couldn’t be over. If it were divinely inspired then it WILL be practiced again. Eternal priniciples don’t pass with time, hence their ETERNAL nature.
What God wants you to divide one of the most sacred bonds a soul can acheive, that of marriage and family, with multiple persons, in many cases to the emotional detriment to those involved? Is this a Christian God? Does this Sound like Christian Teaching?

If Joseph Smith were a true Prophet LDS posters would you be willing to share your spouses with another person? Yes or no, simple questions, simple answers.
Remember those answers as well, the day where you’ll have to put your “money where your mouth is” may very well be nigh at hand.

 

[Kdesiel]

Wow! This sheds much light on what I always perceived to be such an inconsistent practice. No coffee or tea because “no hot drinks” but hot chocolate is ok. Huh? Well there’s no caffeine in hot chocolate. Then why not drink decaffeinated coffee? Because mormons can’t drink hot drinks… But hot chocolate is hot… the name even has the word “hot” in it, right. But its okay because there’s no caffeine. So, if you’re not allowed to have caffeine, then you can’t have pepsi either, right. Sure, because it’s not a hot drink. uch:

Why not just issue a WoW that says no caffeine? Or better yet, change the WoW to say that you can have coffee or tea, but do so only in moderation, and in a manner that is healthy.

Peace,
Robert

Because Robert they didn’t know what caffine was back in the 1830’s and '40’s. See they didn’t expressly say Pepsi or Coke or caffine becasue they didn’t know…those things didn’t exist…see!
Now realeasing a WoW updated to expressly forbid those products would require changing Revelation, changing Gods expressed word. See we’re not supposed to “Add or Take away from” Gods word. That would be bad. See thats why. The proof is in the pudding, Mormons don’t like to add to scripture…oh wait…

It is interesting that a church who states it receives current Divine Revelation through Prophets haven’t updated a doctrine such as the WoW for like 170years. They haven’t expressly come out and said this soda is bad or this is good. They haven’t expressly updated the doctrine to cover some of the new products or advents that weren’t present when the inital Revelation was given. Why is that?

 

[Bataar]

You’re behaving just like the person that you are attempting to admonish, then claiming that you “don’t want to do it”, as if he’s forcing you to bring up Catholic Popes and their behavior. I’m hoping the mods close down this thread as I’ve already reported it.

Why would you do that? This thread is very interesting and I’m learning a lot. If you don’t like it, don’t come to it anymore, but don’t ruin it for the rest of us.

 

[ThuriferAcolyte]

Why would you do that? This thread is very interesting and I’m learning a lot. If you don’t like it, don’t come to it anymore, but don’t ruin it for the rest of us.

The thread is already way off your original topic, which was what made this thread very interesting, and if you read the thread, has been addressed. If you would like to discuss the other topics that have come up in this thread, you can start another one. I have researched Mormonism for 7 years, and this thread is no longer productive.

 

[Kdesiel]

The thread is already way off your original topic, which was what made this thread very interesting, and if you read the thread, has been addressed. If you would like to discuss the other topics that have come up in this thread, you can start another one. I have researched Mormonism for 7 years, and this thread is no longer productive.

I too have learned a few things, but TA is right. This thread is over. It is no longer productive.

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

Thread closed.