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twopekinguys
Guest
I’m thinking there may be some truth to that statement.I wonder how many Mormon men with nagging, shrewish wives will conveniently forget the woman’s new name? A case of ignorance being bliss.
Help with debating a Mormon
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PaulDupre
Guest
Interesting about that flowchart - the 3 levels of the Celestial Kingdom don’t really make any sense unless you consider that Joseph Smith and his successors taught that only those who were plurally married could be exalted. Now it suddenly makes sense: the celestial kingdom contains only faithful Mormons, whom we assume would all be endowed and sealed. But the top level (godhood) is only for those who entered into polygamy.
From MormonWiki.org:
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twopekinguys
Guest
God has bouncers and bodyguards.
How sad they think so little of God that he must have bodyguards.
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ThuriferAcolyte
Guest
Yeah I’ve seen that as well. The funny thing about polygamy is that people don’t realize that the polygamy revelation is merely inactive, and that it could in theory be practiced again at some point in the future. I wonder what happens to those that lived polygamy in the past and their “family units”, as well as those today that are sealed to two wives.
The fruits of having modern, living prophets. :hypno:
lds-mormon.com/lkl_00.shtml
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twopekinguys
Guest
I just find it mind boggling that people with any sort of a rational thought process could go for all of this.
I have read alot of comments from former mormons who said that when they researched deeply into it, they ended up leaving. I can totally understand why.
Continuing revelation is one thing. But don’t these people think that when Jesus was on Earth, telling us how to get to heaven to be with him, he would have disclosed at least some of this?
I mean after all, the Bible is…Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth
I have read alot of comments from former mormons who said that when they researched deeply into it, they ended up leaving. I can totally understand why.
Continuing revelation is one thing. But don’t these people think that when Jesus was on Earth, telling us how to get to heaven to be with him, he would have disclosed at least some of this?
I mean after all, the Bible is…Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth
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PaulDupre
Guest
According to the early LDS prophets, they are the only ones who will be exalted. Of course, according to modern LDS, there will be a lot of plural-marriage sealing done during the millenium. And many current spouses will be torn asunder and re-assigned to more “worthy” partners, all under the direction of the inspired LDS leaders.
Good times.
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why_me
Guest
Yes, Paul, you are absolutely right. The Mormon heaven are a series of ghettos where family members are separated from one another because they did not jump through certain mormon hoops. Yes, Paul, mormon families are broken up both on earth and in heaven. Yes, Paul you are so right. Your hatred and unbias opinion is ´worthy of the trash can. Yes, Paul the christian heaven is much better where families are separated by heaven and hell.
I do remember being told in catechism when I was a boy that hell was a real place and evil or bad people go there, especially when one dies in mortal sin. Yes, Paul that is much better than the mormon ghetto.
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why_me
Guest
Yes, Paul, you are so right. It is amazing just how you figured it all out. I am truely amazed. Unfortunately, the mormons are known for their strong families and moral virtues inside the family. In fact, thanks to the mormons, gay marriage was not instituted in California. But yes, Paul, the mormon church is the most antifamily church in christiandom and in all the world’s religions. Yes, Paul, it is the family busting church even though mormons have less divorce than most christian faiths. But that is okay. It is still a ffamily busting church.Correct, the Mormons have succeeded in breaking up the family - in essence putting asunder that which God has joined together.
A woman cannot take herself through the veil. She must be brought through by her husband, father or some other “priesthood holder”. But not to worry. If her husband is not worthy, she will be taken from him and given to another. Note that it does not say she will be able to choose another, but that she will be * given* to another. Women are still very much property in LDS doctrine and culture.
Not only will the woman be taken from her husband, but all her children and grandchildren will be taken from him as well and assigned to the new man. Congrats to the Mormons - they have broken up yet another family.
I think “the family-centered church” doesn’t really fit, does it? Maybe they should call it “the family-busting church”.
P.S.: As to the secret handshakes, passwords and secret names: in the endowment we are told we must not forget them as we will need them to pass by the angels that stand as sentinels [at the entrance to the celestial kingdom]. So a Mormon could forget them, but I wouldn’t advise it.
I wonder how many Mormon men with nagging, shrewish wives will conveniently forget the woman’s new name? A case of ignorance being bliss.
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why_me
Guest
Lets see just how the mormon church is a family busting church. Lets read this:
The Family: A Proclamation to the World
The First Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
We, the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.
All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.
In the premortal realm, spirit sons and daughters knew and worshiped God as their Eternal Father and accepted His plan by which His children could obtain a physical body and gain earthly experience to progress toward perfection and ultimately realize his or her divine destiny as an heir of eternal life. The divine plan of happiness enables family relationships to be perpetuated beyond the grave. Sacred ordinances and covenants available in holy temples make it possible for individuals to return to the presence of God and for families to be united eternally.
The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God’s commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.
We declare the means by which mortal life is created to be divinely appointed. We affirm the sanctity of life and of its importance in God’s eternal plan.
Husband and wife have a solemn responsibility to love and care for each other and for their children. “Children are an heritage of the Lord” (Psalms 127:3). Parents have a sacred duty to rear their children in love and righteousness, to provide for their physical and spiritual needs, to teach them to love and serve one another, to observe the commandments of God and to be law-abiding citizens wherever they live. Husbands and wives—mothers and fathers—will be held accountable before God for the discharge of these obligations.
The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity. Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities. By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed.
We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.
We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.
This proclamation was read by President Gordon B. Hinckley as part of his message at the General Relief Society Meeting held September 23, 1995, in Salt Lake City, Utah.
Yep, that is a family busting formula for sure.
The Family: A Proclamation to the World
The First Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
We, the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.
All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.
In the premortal realm, spirit sons and daughters knew and worshiped God as their Eternal Father and accepted His plan by which His children could obtain a physical body and gain earthly experience to progress toward perfection and ultimately realize his or her divine destiny as an heir of eternal life. The divine plan of happiness enables family relationships to be perpetuated beyond the grave. Sacred ordinances and covenants available in holy temples make it possible for individuals to return to the presence of God and for families to be united eternally.
The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God’s commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.
We declare the means by which mortal life is created to be divinely appointed. We affirm the sanctity of life and of its importance in God’s eternal plan.
Husband and wife have a solemn responsibility to love and care for each other and for their children. “Children are an heritage of the Lord” (Psalms 127:3). Parents have a sacred duty to rear their children in love and righteousness, to provide for their physical and spiritual needs, to teach them to love and serve one another, to observe the commandments of God and to be law-abiding citizens wherever they live. Husbands and wives—mothers and fathers—will be held accountable before God for the discharge of these obligations.
The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity. Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities. By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed.
We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.
We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.
This proclamation was read by President Gordon B. Hinckley as part of his message at the General Relief Society Meeting held September 23, 1995, in Salt Lake City, Utah.
Yep, that is a family busting formula for sure.
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Arandur
Guest
You don’t believe hell is a real place/condition? I thought it was still a part of Mormon cosmology.
I think the objection to the varying levels of heaven is that people who succeeded in living lives of love, in “doing most of it right,” still get separated. God checks your merit badges and segregates you based on them, not on love. God is a “respecter of persons.”
Whereas hell is chosen by the individual when the individual rejects God and His perfect Love. All who welcome God and choose His love will be joined in heaven, one big happy family.
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why_me
Guest
My friend Paul was taking glee with the missionary figure of leaving the church after they served a mission. Of course I am still waiting for a reference but that is okay. Catholics never should show glee in this example since many catholics are leaving their faith. Or as in Ireland, France, and Spain, not attending church very much. And of course, if I were a mean spirited person, I could also show glee and rub it in.
But…I am basically a nice human being.
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ThuriferAcolyte
Guest
This is true. In Catholic theology, God does not send people to Hell, people send themselves to Hell.
Mormons believe in something called “Outer Darkness”, where the Sons of Perdition go. Very few people end up here. In contrast, the Telestial Kingdom of Heaven is where “Those who on earth are liars, sorcerers, whoremongers, and adulterers, who receive not the gospel, or the testimony of Jesus, or the prophets, go to the Telestial Kingdom. They are judged unworthy of being resurrected at the second coming of Christ and are given additional time in “hell” to repent and prepare themselves for a later resurrection and placement into a kingdom of lesser glory. During this period, they learn to abide by laws they once rejected. They bow the knee and confess their dependence on Jesus Christ, but they still do not receive the fulness of the gospel.”
eom.byu.edu/index.php/Degrees_of_Glory
The difference I see between Catholic and Mormon theology on the whole issue is this: In Catholicism, there is one Heaven. So, if your Lutheran mother is saved, she will be going to the same place as you, the Catholic. All those saved, whether by living the fullness of Truth in the Catholic Faith, or by baptism of blood or baptism of desire, all go to the same eternal abode, Heaven. In contrast, in Mormon theology, my Lutheran mother might end up in the Terrestrial Kingdom (since she did not accept the fullness of the LDS Gospel in Spirit Prison), in the presence of the Son only, whereas you, the faithful, endowed and sealed Mormon, will go to the Celestial Kingdom, in the presence of the Father and the Son.
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ThuriferAcolyte
Guest
You are too hilarious. Many people of all religions are leaving their religion (or not going to church) in the Western world. And you don’t have to rub anything in, because you’re doing the same thing that Paul is doing by trying to casually mention many Catholics leaving their faith, and Ireland, France, and SpainMy friend Paul was taking glee with the missionary figure of leaving the church after they served a mission. Of course I am still waiting for a reference but that is okay. Catholics never should show glee in this example since many catholics are leaving their faith. Or as in Ireland, France, and Spain, not attending church very much. And of course, if I were a mean spirited person, I could also show glee and rub it in.
But…I am basically a nice human being.
. But again, your Latin America example was funny, since it had nothing to do with anything, since you may as well say that most converts to any religion in India are former Hindus. 
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why_me
Guest
Not really. Mormons are not separated upon death if they lived a faithful life. But in truth, it is difficult to know just what is happening in the afterlife. Most christian faiths have a heaven and a hell. The faithful go to heaven and the unfaithful go to hell. Now that is a separation. Very few, very few people go to hell or outer darkness in the mormon faith. The very wicked will inherit the telestial kingdom, the lowest degree. And yet, still glorious.
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why_me
Guest
Not really. I did not bring it up with glee as Paul did. He brought it up and I responded. Paul claimed that many return missionaries are leaving the faith. He said the figure was 50 percent. I challenged it and asked for a reference. His glee was overwhelming. I then brought to his attention that most penecostal converts in latin america were catholic. And I took no glee even though the catholic faith has lost many members.You are too hilarious. Many people of all religions are leaving their religion (or not going to church) in the Western world. And you don’t have to rub anything in, because you’re doing the same thing that Paul is doing by trying to casually mention many Catholics leaving their faith, and Ireland, France, and Spain
And yes, you are right about christianity in the western world but my friend paul did not consider that premise. His premise seemed to be lookie here…this is what happening in the mormon church…yippee!
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twopekinguys
Guest
Instead of blathering aimlessly about his post, why don’t you explain where he got it wrong?Yes, Paul, you are so right. It is amazing just how you figured it all out. I am truely amazed. Unfortunately, the mormons are known for their strong families and moral virtues inside the family. In fact, thanks to the mormons, gay marriage was not instituted in California. But yes, Paul, the mormon church is the most antifamily church in christiandom and in all the world’s religions. Yes, Paul, it is the family busting church even though mormons have less divorce than most christian faiths. But that is okay. It is still a ffamily busting church.
Yes, the mormons were instrumental in defeating Prop 8, then you whine, and cry, and get all bent out of shape because the opposing side protested you. You protested them, they protest you, deal with it. You realize this is a democracy right, and they have free speech just like you do?
So, if a woman is sealed to her husband, and she makes it to the celestial, and he doesn’t they will be separate right? To get into celestial, she needs a temple sealed marriage right? So even if they were sealed, and he doesn’t make it for one reason or another, she’s out in the cold so to speak. Right?
If she is sealed to her family, and hubby, and everyone makes it, who does she go with? Somehow, somewhere a family is being broken up.
Like I said, explain where he got it wrong, Don’t just whine that he got it wrong.
Come on, say it with me, FACTS. One more time…FACTS
I knew you could do it.
Correct, the Mormons have succeeded in breaking up the family - in essence putting asunder that which God has joined together.
A woman cannot take herself through the veil. She must be brought through by her husband, father or some other “priesthood holder”. But not to worry. If her husband is not worthy, she will be taken from him and given to another. Note that it does not say she will be able to choose another, but that she will be * given* to another. Women are still very much property in LDS doctrine and culture.
Not only will the woman be taken from her husband, but all her children and grandchildren will be taken from him as well and assigned to the new man. Congrats to the Mormons - they have broken up yet another family.
I think “the family-centered church” doesn’t really fit, does it? Maybe they should call it “the family-busting church”.
P.S.: As to the secret handshakes, passwords and secret names: in the endowment we are told we must not forget them as we will need them to pass by the angels that stand as sentinels [at the entrance to the celestial kingdom]. So a Mormon could forget them, but I wouldn’t advise it.
I wonder how many Mormon men with nagging, shrewish wives will conveniently forget the woman’s new name? A case of ignorance being bliss.
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StLawrenceFan
Guest
LOL! Where do you get your facts? I was at Church today - and in just our little Church, there were five Baptisms.
There are over a billion Catholics, world-wide. There has always been an ebb & flow, but at the end of the day, there is a constant addition to Christ’s Church.
Jesus founded the Catholic Church. Why would anyone join any other Church? Dunno. Makes no sense to me.
Hopefully any fake “Catholics” who voted for Obama have deeply repented for such a vile voting decision, or have left. Good riddance. There are many thousands that will take the place of the confused; until the end of time.
Check the facts.
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twopekinguys
Guest
Your reading comprehension is Waaaaaay off.
You didn’t see where he corrected the figure?
How convenient for you.
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ThuriferAcolyte
Guest
Again, I’m just noting that your tit-for-tat posting tactic is interesting, like how above you couldn’t help but adding “even though the catholic faith has lost many members”.
(and again, Latin America is hardly an equivalent example, when 70% of the population in the vast majority if not all Latin American countries are Catholic, so it’s simply logical that converts to any religion besides Catholicism will mostly be Catholic. 
Paul can address his own claims, but suffice to say that both churches have been growing, even though members are leaving, as they are in all churches. As far as the Catholic Church worldwide, the population is still growing, there are more parishes, more elementary and secondary schools, more students enrolling in these schools, etc.
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PaulDupre
Guest
I’ll remind why me that he is on my ignore list (it saves a great deal of time). I only see what he writes if someone else quotes him.
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