Help with debating a Mormon

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how do we know what is Scripture and what is not?
Have you noticed the only response you get from a discussion on this subject is on the order of a ‘Statler and Waldorf’ nature? They cannot refute the historical fact that the Catholic Church decided which of all the writings of mankind are of God, and shall be considered scripture. And the Table of Contents of the New Testament is Sacred Tradition; Sacred Catholic Tradition.
 
Have you noticed the only response you get from a discussion on this subject is on the order of a ‘Statler and Waldorf’ nature? They cannot refute the historical fact that the Catholic Church decided which of all the writings of mankind are of God, and shall be considered scripture. And the Table of Contents of the New Testament is Sacred Tradition; Sacred Catholic Tradition.
Agreed. I’d still like to know the Mormon perspective as to what Scripture is, and how we know what is and isn’t Scripture.

This goes back to them only believing in the Bible “as far as it is translated correctly”. Sad.
 
Agreed. I’d still like to know the Mormon perspective as to what Scripture is, and how we know what is and isn’t Scripture.

This goes back to them only believing in the Bible “as far as it is translated correctly”. Sad.
Thurifer Acolyte,
Your note of sadness reminds me of a sadness I have encountered, which is that so many people will take the actual translation of the words that have become the English Bible, and redefine the meaning or the context to fit their own beliefs, rather than let the words say what the words say, and trust that the prophet or apostle who spoke or wrote the words knew exactly what they were doing, and did it by revelation from the Holy Ghost. I have encountered that “redefinition” in this forum time and time again. So much is lost in that “redefinition”!
 
Thurifer Acolyte,
Your note of sadness reminds me of a sadness I have encountered, which is that so many people will take the actual translation of the words that have become the English Bible, and redefine the meaning or the context to fit their own beliefs, rather than let the words say what the words say, and trust that the prophet or apostle who spoke or wrote the words knew exactly what they were doing, and did it by revelation from the Holy Ghost. I have encountered that “redefinition” in this forum time and time again. So much is lost in that “redefinition”!
I think that objectively, this “redefinition” occurs in every single church and religion.
 
Debate is a fruitless endeavor for those that consider it that. Debate is found in all areas of human life, including religion, both within a religion and without it. As a new Catholic, you should read about the Ecumenical Councils.

Welcome to the original Church founded by Christ!
I should rephrase what I meant. I was just trying to convey to the original poster that sometimes debate isn’t the answer and in this instance may lead to a certain amount of contention, which I feel in my opinion, diminishes useful communication. I wouldn’t say ALL DEBATE is fruitless and that is certainly not what I meant, if it came accross that way then I apologize for my poor communication skills.

Anyway, thanks for the advice on the Ecumenical Councils I’ll get started on that after work.
Also thanks for the warm welcome! My whole family still are active LDS members, so my conversion to the Catholic and true faith ahs gotten a less than warm reception at home. So a warm welcome is always welcome!
Thanks again.
 
I should rephrase what I meant. I was just trying to convey to the original poster that sometimes debate isn’t the answer and in this instance may lead to a certain amount of contention, which I feel in my opinion, diminishes useful communication. I wouldn’t say ALL DEBATE is fruitless and that is certainly not what I meant, if it came accross that way then I apologize for my poor communication skills.

Anyway, thanks for the advice on the Ecumenical Councils I’ll get started on that after work.
Also thanks for the warm welcome! My whole family still are active LDS members, so my conversion to the Catholic and true faith ahs gotten a less than warm reception at home. So a warm welcome is always welcome!
Thanks again.
No problem! And yes, I agree that sometimes debate isn’t the answer and can lead to contention. However it seems that the OP said it was a “friendly debate”. I had many of those with my Protestant friends. We’re still friends. 😉

The Ecumenical Councils are very important in apostolic Christianity. The most recent one was the Second Ecumenical Council of the Vatican (Vatican II), which ended in 1965. That one in and of itself caused much debate, which still continues today.

Pray for your family! Who knows, maybe they’ll become curious about Catholicism and maybe some will follow you to the Church of Jesus Christ! Welcome home again.
 
I should rephrase what I meant. I was just trying to convey to the original poster that sometimes debate isn’t the answer and in this instance may lead to a certain amount of contention, which I feel in my opinion, diminishes useful communication. I wouldn’t say ALL DEBATE is fruitless and that is certainly not what I meant, if it came accross that way then I apologize for my poor communication skills.

Anyway, thanks for the advice on the Ecumenical Councils I’ll get started on that after work.
Also thanks for the warm welcome! My whole family still are active LDS members, so my conversion to the Catholic and true faith ahs gotten a less than warm reception at home. So a warm welcome is always welcome!
Thanks again.
Hi Kdesiel. Welcome to the forums and the True Church founded by Christ Himself.

God Bless
 
Thurifer Acolyte,
Your note of sadness reminds me of a sadness I have encountered, which is that so many people will take the actual translation of the words that have become the English Bible, and redefine the meaning or the context to fit their own beliefs, rather than let the words say what the words say, and trust that the prophet or apostle who spoke or wrote the words knew exactly what they were doing, and did it by revelation from the Holy Ghost.** I have encountered that “redefinition” in this forum time and time again**. So much is lost in that “redefinition”!
You’re right it happens all the time, like the time someone redefined the word “lo” to mean “therefore if”. 🤷
 
You’re right it happens all the time, like the time someone redefined the word “lo” to mean “therefore if”. 🤷
Hello, Zaffiroborant,
'Hope you are well. How fun of you to remember. What I meant by “therefore if” is akin to “keeping these things in view”.

“Keeping these things in view” (“lo”), “I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.”

“Lo” = “look” = “to look forward to” or “behold” = “to have or keep in sight.”

If you stop looking forward to the original goal or stop keeping the thing originally sought after in sight, it won’t happen or in other words the goal won’t be attained even if it was the most wonderful of goals.
 
Hello, Zaffiroborant,
'Hope you are well. How fun of you to remember. What I meant by “therefore if” is akin to “keeping these things in view”.

“Keeping these things in view” (“lo”), “I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.”

“Lo” = “look” = “to look forward to” or “behold” = “to have or keep in sight.”

If you stop looking forward to the original goal or stop keeping the thing originally sought after in sight, it won’t happen or in other words the goal won’t be attained even if it was the most wonderful of goals.
Again you are assigning meaning that is not included in the definition in the dictionary. It is you interpreting the word lo. By the way I can’t find a dictionary that defines the word apostasy as “loss of priesthood”. You want to say these words mean certain things fine, all kinds of groups use words in a way that others don’t understand, I think jargon is the word to describe this. But don’t go all snarky on others for doing it when you do the exact same thing.
 
I should rephrase what I meant. I was just trying to convey to the original poster that sometimes debate isn’t the answer and in this instance may lead to a certain amount of contention, which I feel in my opinion, diminishes useful communication. I wouldn’t say ALL DEBATE is fruitless and that is certainly not what I meant, if it came accross that way then I apologize for my poor communication skills.

Thanks again.
If you follow these mormon threads for the past two years, usually your old faith takes a bashing and a mocking from the more stalwart catholics who seem to be glued to Mormon threads. I see no debate. Usually the same people bounce information here and there and keep to their old attitudes anyway. No discussion or debate.

Debating religion on such a thread is fruitless. As for your mormon family, they will come around as they see that you are now a better person for being a catholic. Not that you were a better person for being a mormon but perhaps you have more peace now that you have found a religion that you can call home.

Also please jump in if you feel some of the catholics are having a mormon bash on these threads. A voice of reason is always welcome.
 
And then there’s the JST.
Which is actually not so bad at all. It is quite amazing that a farm boy could write the book of mormon, book of abraham, book of moses and add to some verses in the bible. I find it absolutely amazing if he did do it. And we need to remember that he was murdered at the tender age of 38. Quite an accomplishment to write all that and lead a church that was persecuted and chased around a few states.

But could he have done it without inspiration? 🙂
 
No problem! And yes, I agree that sometimes debate isn’t the answer and can lead to contention. However it seems that the OP said it was a “friendly debate”. I had many of those with my Protestant friends. We’re still friends. 😉
We are all friends here too. But the tone of some of these debates about mormonism leave much to be desired. However, it is only a small minority of catholics who post in a disrespectful way about the mormon faith.

But…only when we die will find out what is true and what is false. Now it is only hopeful thinking. I still say lets all get together and have a barbeque at Rebecca’s and eat hot dogs and burgers with some potato salad. It is getting kind of late in the year… so maybe next July 4th.
 
Which is actually not so bad at all. It is quite amazing that a farm boy could write the book of mormon, book of abraham, book of moses and add to some verses in the bible. I find it absolutely amazing if he did do it. And we need to remember that he was murdered at the tender age of 38. Quite an accomplishment to write all that and lead a church that was persecuted and chased around a few states.

But could he have done it without inspiration? 🙂
ah, so you think that those that don’t buy Joseph Smith and his scriptures think that he just thought it all up…feel free to start another thread to discuss that.
 
Again you are assigning meaning that is not included in the definition in the dictionary. It is you interpreting the word lo. By the way I can’t find a dictionary that defines the word apostasy as “loss of priesthood”. You want to say these words mean certain things fine, all kinds of groups use words in a way that others don’t understand, I think jargon is the word to describe this. But don’t go all snarky on others for doing it when you do the exact same thing.
Zaffiroborant,
“Lo” does mean “look” or “behold” according to the dictionary definition, and “look” and “behold” do have the definitions I had described.

“Apostasy” in the dictionary definition means “abandonment of what one has voluntarily professed.” When men said that Linus had more authority than John while John was still alive, then those men were abandoning what they had voluntarily professed, which had to do with following Christ and His new covenant gospel in its purity and simplicity, including sustaining the authority of the apostles and not saying someone else had more authority.
 
ah, so you think that those that don’t buy Joseph Smith and his scriptures think that he just thought it all up…feel free to start another thread to discuss that.
That’s been done already and ended up nowhere.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
Agreed. I’d still like to know the Mormon perspective as to what Scripture is, and how we know what is and isn’t Scripture.
Using Dianaiad statement on scripture, I would think Mormon’s don’t have scripture
So…God must pass the -]Mormon/-] Catholic test before what He gives us can be considered His word.
.
I will assume she was just being irrational in trying to win an argument and Mormons believe they do have scripture. I also would like to know how Mormons determine what scripture is; or is anything scripture?
 
Well, according to dianad’s post around #18 or so, nothing after Revelation can be called scripture, “real” scripture. But that would mean that all of the BOM, D&C and Pearl of Great Price wouldn’t be considered scripture. Hmmmmm.
 
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