Help with discussion

[quilting_bee_1]

I’m in a discussion and I need some help. This gal goes to a church that is affiliated with The Berean Call - she repeats a lot of their stuff and seems to believe their doctrines, yet she insists that she is “Bible alone.”

I’ve tried to show her that some of the things she believes in are outside of or contrary to the Bible, but she keeps saying she only goes by the Bible.

Now she hasn’t come right out and spoken the “Whore of Babylon” phrase, so I’m not sure that she’s ever read Dave Hunt or Lorraine Boettner, personally but by the looks of her church’s web site, I’m sure she’s getting a pretty thorough indoctrination.

I know that she’s really into rapture stuff - her pastor has come up with his own timeline of dispensations and attaches his own name to this dispensational plan on their web site. It includes the rapture and then later a second coming - which is actually a third coming if your grasp of mathematics allows you to count to three.

Now, one of the odder-sounding things that she’s come up with is that humans can do nothing that is pleasing to God.

Any ideas of where she might have gotten that? Any Biblical counters? TIA!

 

[johnnyjones]

The last part sounds like a corruption of scripture that says “no one is good but God” or there is no one who is good, not one" (Rom 3:12). To say we can’t please God is another story. "Without faith it is impossible to please God (Heb. 11:6) but remember the church and scripture point out we need works as well. So those without works, aren’t to pleasing to the Lord (circumstances factored in I would imagine).

God was pleased with David (1 Sam 16:22).

The bible only mentality is another approach you must break down but that takes time. Start with scripture verses that point out that hearing is as valid as the written word.

 

[R_C]

Now, one of the odder-sounding things that she’s come up with is that humans can do nothing that is pleasing to God.

Then why would our Lord have said:

"If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

Now, it is true that we need God’s grace, and it is sanctifying grace that allows us to do things that are pleasing to God, though temporary actual grace moves us to repentance - which is very pleasing to God. But under grace we can do many things pleasing to God!

It is true, that we lost sanctifying grace in the original sin, and that Christ had to regain it for us, that we may each receive it at Baptism. However, no doubt that even before Christ many found grace in the eyes of God.

There have been quite a few heresies about man’s nature being evil. Yet we know that man was made in the image and likeness of God, and that its nature is only wounded.

 

[Gorgias]

Now, one of the odder-sounding things that she’s come up with is that humans can do nothing that is pleasing to God.

Any ideas of where she might have gotten that? Any Biblical counters? TIA!

Hmm… sounds a bit like the Calvinistic doctrine of “total depravity”. Of course, even that doesn’t say “humans can do nothing that is pleasing to God”, but rather, that on their own, and more importantly, while in the grasp of sin, humans can do nothing that is pleasing to God…

 

[pablope]

I’m in a discussion and I need some help. This gal goes to a church that is affiliated with The Berean Call - she repeats a lot of their stuff and seems to believe their doctrines, yet she insists that she is “Bible alone.”

I’ve tried to show her that some of the things she believes in are outside of or contrary to the Bible, but she keeps saying she only goes by the Bible.

Now she hasn’t come right out and spoken the “Whore of Babylon” phrase, so I’m not sure that she’s ever read Dave Hunt or Lorraine Boettner, personally but by the looks of her church’s web site, I’m sure she’s getting a pretty thorough indoctrination.

I know that she’s really into rapture stuff - her pastor has come up with his own timeline of dispensations and attaches his own name to this dispensational plan on their web site. It includes the rapture and then later a second coming - which is actually a third coming if your grasp of mathematics allows you to count to three.

Now, one of the odder-sounding things that she’s come up with is that humans can do nothing that is pleasing to God.

Any ideas of where she might have gotten that? Any Biblical counters? TIA!

Show here this…well, first, ask her if she has heard of this book also… BABYLON MYSTERY RELIGION…by Ralph Woodrow…which is sourced from these same books…the one by Hislop and Hunt.

Show this website from the same author…the-highway.com/rapture_Woodrow1.html

and this…on the book by Hislop…newprotestants.com/2babylons.htm

Woodrow did some more studying and research…and withdrew his book from publication…this is his statement…ralphwoodrow.org/books/pages/babylon-mystery.html

 

[Ruthie_again]

Counters:

1Ki 14:13, Mal 3:4, Eph 5:10, Php 4:18, Heb 13:16.

And from the books she doesn’t have:

Wis 4:14, Sir 35:3 + 16, Sir 48:16 + 22, Bar 4:4

Searchable Bible software is da bomb!

 

[quilting_bee_1]

Thank you for all the different takes on this!

The last part sounds like a corruption of scripture that says “no one is good but God” (snip)
The bible only mentality is another approach you must break down but that takes time. Start with scripture verses that point out that hearing is as valid as the written word.

That’s a possibility - she did use this argument in our first discussions - against the Blessed Virgin Mary.

The main problem is that she doesn’t hear, now - never mind that the earliest Christians relied on hearing, rather than reading. But, I have brought this point into the discussion more than once.

Most of what I say seems to fly past her and she rarely responds to anything I say. When she does respond, she responds in such a way as to indicate that it is nothing I said that she’s replying to - she’s mostly throwing out almost random Bible verses and criticizing things I never said. Needless to say, there isn’t a lot of “discussion” in this “discussion.”

But under grace we can do many things pleasing to God!

I “knew” that this idea was un-Biblical - thank you!

Hmm… sounds a bit like the Calvinistic doctrine of “total depravity”.

I thought it was leaning toward “total depravity,” too, but it looks like anything Calvinist would be rejected out of hand by the people who believe this Berean Call stuff. Probably the only thing they’d agree with Calvinists on is that “Catholic = bad.”

Woodrow did some more studying and research…and withdrew his book from publication…this is his statement…ralphwoodrow.org/books/pages/babylon-mystery.html

I’d forgotten about that book - that page sure took some courage to write, didn’t it? I’ll study your links - thank you.

Searchable Bible software is da bomb!

Thank you for the suggested counters - I’ll study them. There are several Bibles on line that are searchable, but maybe I was using too many words - the phrase “pleasing to God,” instead of just the word, “pleasing.”

Thank you for the help!

 

[COPLAND_3]

People who dont listen in a dialogue are the ones you need to recognize that its probably going to be unfruitful. I personally no longer engage in converstaions with people who pay no attention to what I am saying. Its one thing to disagree with me, I respect that, but I have no patience for one-sided conversations.

 

[quilting_bee_1]

People who dont listen in a dialogue are the ones you need to recognize that its probably going to be unfruitful.

Yes, you’re right - with this particular person, I am probably going to make no impression at all - I should have made it clear that this is a public discussion.

You might agree with me that on a forum, you’re writing for many more people than the one who raises the issue. Plus, I do have hope for this person! I am willing to keep dropping bread crumbs whenever the Lord opens a way for me to do so.

I personally no longer engage in converstaions with people who pay no attention to what I am saying. Its one thing to disagree with me, I respect that, but I have no patience for one-sided conversations.

I agree 100%. In fact, I got so frustrated with the failure to respond that I declared a moratorium on religious discussion between us for several years, although I continued to pray for her.

Recently, she’s engaged me by posting on a social network and that’s okay - the Lord has apparently blessed me with the charity I have been praying for and so far I haven’t lost my temper this time. (by the grace of God!)

Now, she’s begun posting un-Catholic teachings and misinterpretations of Catholic teachings in a Catholic space. I actually don’t mind it so much, myself - the Church can answer anything she can come up with - I’m sorry for her, though. Words on the internet last a very long time and she’s not doing herself any favors. Thanks be to God, the Catholic participation has been gentle and kind, for the most part.

Thank you - have a great day!

 

[PJM]

=quilting_bee;9793231]I’m in a discussion and I need some help. This gal goes to a church that is affiliated with The Berean Call - she repeats a lot of their stuff and seems to believe their doctrines, yet she insists that she is “Bible alone.”

I’ve tried to show her that some of the things she believes in are outside of or contrary to the Bible, but she keeps saying she only goes by the Bible.

Now she hasn’t come right out and spoken the “Whore of Babylon” phrase, so I’m not sure that she’s ever read Dave Hunt or Lorraine Boettner, personally but by the looks of her church’s web site, I’m sure she’s getting a pretty thorough indoctrination.

I know that she’s really into rapture stuff - her pastor has come up with his own timeline of dispensations and attaches his own name to this dispensational plan on their web site. It includes the rapture and then later a second coming - which is actually a third coming if your grasp of mathematics allows you to count to three.

Now, one of the odder-sounding things that she’s come up with is that humans can do nothing that is pleasing to God.

Any ideas of where she might have gotten that? Any Biblical counters? TIA!

LETS KEEP IT SIMPLE AND BIBLICAL

Heb.6: 10 “For God is not so unjust as to overlook your work and the love which you showed for his sake in serving the saints, as you still do.”

Rev.2: 23 “and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches shall know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you as your works deserve.”

1 Peter 1: 17 “Now if you invoke as Father him who judges impartially according to each one’s works, conduct yourselves with reverence during the time of your sojourning, “

Eph. 5: 6-10, 15-17 “Let no one deceive you with empty words, for it is because of these things that the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not associate with them, for once you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord; walk as children of light (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), and try to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of the time, because the days are evil. Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is.

Ask her when and who founded her church?

Point out Christ ONLY Founded ONLY One Church and One set of Faith beliefs; today’s Catholic Church.

ONLY **One Church **
John.10: 16 “And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd” AND SEE Eph. 4: 1-6

 

[fred_conty]

Quilting Bee, you said,“Now, one of the odder-sounding things that she’s come up with is that humans can do nothing that is pleasing to God.”

Here is an answer.

catholic.com/tracts/grace-what-it-is-and-what-it-does

“Sanctifying grace implies a real transformation of the soul. Recall that most of the Protestant Reformers denied that a real transformation takes place. They said God doesn’t actually wipe away our sins. Our souls don’t become spotless and holy in themselves. Instead, they remain corrupted, sinful, full of sin. God merely throws a cloak over them and treats them as if they were spotless, knowing all the while that they’re not.”

Ask her to read the letter of St. James which holds the necessity of doing good works.
If we cannot do anything good, then what would the point of this letter saying that we must do good works.

Just some thoughts.