Help with explaining Mary as The Mother of God

  • Thread starter Thread starter littlechicken
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
L

littlechicken

Guest
:confused:I am having a civilized discussion with someone on another site about Mary as the Mother of God. I pointed out the scripture of Elizabeth humbly proclaiming “who am I that the Mother of Our Lord should come to me?” and for a while that was a stumper. Then the person came back and said 1) that Elizabeth used the term Lord in that statement the same way she would refer to lords on earth. I was able to correct that some.
2) The other person then said that Mary carried Jesus into the world, and admitted that Jesus is God, but used other Biblical scripture to say ; Luke 1:35 …therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. - she gave birth to the man Jesus.
3) The person seems to think that Mary having the title of Mother of God, means she somehow came before God, I put in very simple terms that such is not the case, but rather she was chosen as the Mother of God, and accepted that role. But I can see where he/she thinks that way, because a child comes from both Mother and Father.

Can someone please help?
I am sure this has been addressed here, but even putting this in search in quotations has not quite rendered the results I need.
I am not a doctor in theology, and want to express this well in laymans terms with scriptural back up if possible and due to the nature of the other forum, I cannot wait to get a book to reply.
(have seen Dr. Hahns book recommended often, and plan to order it for future reference)

Thank you so much anyone who can help with this.:banghead:
little chicken
 
To imply that Mary gave birth only to the man Jesus is simply put, closet Nestorianism. Jesus the God and Jesus the Man are not able to be separated; they are one. Nor did they start out as two and become one. Nancy Pelosi might not be aware that the Word of God became Flesh at conception, but it’s really standard Christian theology.

No knowledgable Catholic would claim that Mary existed before God simply because she is the Mother of God.
 
littlechicken said:
:confused:I am having a civilized discussion with someone on another site about Mary as the Mother of God. I pointed out the scripture of Elizabeth humbly proclaiming “who am I that the Mother of Our Lord should come to me?” and for a while that was a stumper. Then the person came back and said 1) that Elizabeth used the term Lord in that statement the same way she would refer to lords on earth. I was able to correct that some.
2) The other person then said that Mary carried Jesus into the world, and admitted that Jesus is God, but used other Biblical scripture to say ; Luke 1:35 …therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. - she gave birth to the man Jesus.
3) The person seems to think that Mary having the title of Mother of God, means she somehow came before God, I put in very simple terms that such is not the case, but rather she was chosen as the Mother of God, and accepted that role. But I can see where he/she thinks that way, because a child comes from both Mother and Father.

Can someone please help?
I am sure this has been addressed here, but even putting this in search in quotations has not quite rendered the results I need.
I am not a doctor in theology, and want to express this well in laymans terms with scriptural back up if possible and due to the nature of the other forum, I cannot wait to get a book to reply.
(have seen Dr. Hahns book recommended often, and plan to order it for future reference)

Thank you so much anyone who can help with this.:banghead:
little chicken
Click to expand...
star.ucl.ac.uk/~vgg/rc/aplgtc/hahn/m4/m.html

chnetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mary.pdf

And look for the Nestorian Heresy…addressed by the Council of Ephesus AD431…ewtn.com/expert/answers/mother.htm

As can be seen, all of the decisions of this great Council, of which the title Mother of God was only the pricipitating issue, protect and defend this truth: Jesus Christ was NOT a mere man on whom the Word descended in some way or to whom the Word was united but distinct, rather He was the Divine eternal Person of the Word, who in time assumed a human nature of Mary, but remained the Word, the One Christ, 2nd Person of the Trinity, uniting in Himself His Divine Nature and His Incarnate Human Nature.
 
Ask her whether she believes Jesus was one person or two.

If she says He was two people, then you have a much bigger problem to discuss.

If she says He was one Person, as her if she believes that Person was God.

If she says yes, which it sounds like she will, then ask her if a mother is the mother of a person or of that person’s nature.

If she concedes that one is a mother of a person rather than of a nature, then you’ve reached the point of her agreeing that Mary is the mother of God if she is willing to follow the logic. Mary is the mother of the single person Jesus Christ. That Person is God. Therefore Mary is the mother of God.

Also explain to her, though it sounds like you have done so already, that Mary being the mother of God does not in any way mean she existed before God or brought God into existence. This particular doctrine isn’t really about Mary at all, it’s about the truth of the Bible and about who Jesus is. If Mary was not the mother of God that means either she was not Jesus’ mother (which would be a denial of the Bible itself, which calls her His mother), or that this Jesus she was the mother of was not God.
 
Wow, there are some really great answers here.
The person I am speaking to is not Catholic, but very anti-Catholic.
I did explain that there is no way that Jesus was ever seperated from His Divinity, and the person refuses to address that fact. So maybe I am just dealing with someone who refuses to see?

I thank all of you so much for your helpful answers, they will come in handy now and in the future I am sure. The Spirit willing.
Please pray for the person I am speaking with. I don’t have a name, but I kind of think God always knows who we mean.

Again, thanks all of you so very much.:grouphug:
God Bless.

I will keep checking this thread, as I find myself in discussions about Mary quite often.
 
I don’t know, it seems pretty simple to me. You said they admit Jesus is God. And I am sure they admit Blessed Mary gave birth to Jesus.

Mathematical Substitution Rule:
A=B
B=C
Then I can substitute A for B in the second equation since A and B are equal, they are one and the same, so, changing the letter B to the letter A in the second statement using the Substitution Rule, we can say:
A=C

Likewise:
Bl. Mary is the mother of Jesus.
Jesus = God
By the Substitution Rule, since Jesus equals God, we can substitute God in place of Jesus in the first statement, getting:
Bl. Mary is the mother of God.

Or:
Through Bl. Mary, Jesus came into the world.
Jesus = God.
Through Bl. Mary, God came into the world.

God bless you.
 
littlechicken said:
Wow, there are some really great answers here.
The person I am speaking to is not Catholic, but very anti-Catholic.
I did explain that there is no way that Jesus was ever seperated from His Divinity, and the person refuses to address that fact. So maybe I am just dealing with someone who refuses to see?
Click to expand...
Yeah, it sounds like this person refuses to concede that ‘Mother of God’ is an apt title simply because Catholics use it. Before they understand why we use that title, they have to be willing to be more open-minded. Perhaps now is the time for prayers to the Lord that this person’s heart will not be hardened. :signofcross:
 
Go to EWTN’s Novena for the nation, download or the book because this is what yesterday’s novena meditation was about specifically.
 
One of the ways I address this is to first define what it means to be the Mother of someone.

Everyone should at least recognize that the Mother of someone is not their Creator. A person’s mother does not cause their existance.

There are quite a lot of people who object to the term "Mother of God’ due to a mistaken sense that “Motherhood” implies “start of existance”

Once you get someone to recognize that being someone’s mother does not equate to being their Creator, you will usually have an easier time of it.

It is very rare to encounter a person with a decidedly Nestorian outlook on the Personhood of Christ. Most just never think the concept of Motherhood through to it’s actually application in human creation.
 
I usually just ask if they are more comfortable with the title : Mary, Mom of God…

Mary did much more than give birth to Jesus… She raised Him.

The fact that He is called the Son of God does not make Him any less the Son of Mary… I am the son of Jim Clark… I am also the son of Veronica Clark. Caling me the son of Jim does not mean that my mom is not the mother of Mike.
 
As far as I know, institutional Protestantism accepts the first seven ecumenical councils, which includes Ephesus.

“We too know very well that God did not derive his divinity from Mary; but it does not follow that it is therefore wrong to say that God was born of Mary, that God is Mary’s Son, and that Mary is God’s mother.” Martin Luther
 
So, it seems as if the person I was communicating with is Mormon? They never actually said, but it is what I gathered.(it is the only religion/faith they didn’t put down!)
I think that puts me at a different vantage point altogether. I guess I will need to find out now what Mormon teachings are.

I still appreciate all the help and will refrain from apologetics until I have studied well. The resources given to me by all of you will help tremendously.

Please keep the person in your prayers, um, and if you wouldn’t mind… keep me in your prayers as well, because I need them badly. I don’t suspect I will be back for quite some time, as I need to focus on some other things.
:sad_yes:
God Bless,
littlechicken
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top