Help with faith

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deathwinger

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I am not sure where to turn. This past summer I tried to return to my Catholic roots and got hit in the face by atheism. I am struggling with trying to reconcile my faith with reason and everytime I think I can see the light, I slip. I am not sure where to turn to for help. I cannot even pray at this point. I was not sure if there was already a thread for this problem. If there is, could someone point me in the right direction or if not, any help would appreciated.
 
Whatever you do, read these 2 books.

Aquinas by Ed Feser
The Last Superstition by Ed Feser

And, go to Ed Fesers blog. Have a look at all his posts over the years. You will realize that your faith is grounded in reason - in fact, it is reason itself that grounds it!
 
deathwinger said:
I am not sure where to turn. This past summer I tried to return to my Catholic roots and got hit in the face by atheism. I am struggling with trying to reconcile my faith with reason and everytime I think I can see the light, I slip. I am not sure where to turn to for help. I cannot even pray at this point. I was not sure if there was already a thread for this problem. If there is, could someone point me in the right direction or if not, any help would appreciated.
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Can you give us an example of what you are struggeling with and we might be able to help you see things from a different position or light. I am actually pretty well schooled in science and have not found much that conflicts with Catholicism. Usually, as I have found, Atheists try to claim more than they are actually able to based upon the science.
 
NewsTheMan said:
Whatever you do, read these 2 books.

Aquinas by Ed Feser
The Last Superstition by Ed Feser

And, go to Ed Fesers blog. Have a look at all his posts over the years. You will realize that your faith is grounded in reason - in fact, it is reason itself that grounds it!
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Very true. The deficient philosophical notions today both fail at truth and at leading to truth. We read Church teaching through the lens of this deficient mechanical mechanistic belief and loose all understanding of the notion of transcendence. God becomes the highest point of the pyramid of being instead of the true transcendent source of being. In the former, God is a point we are moving toward where in the latter He is moving us deeper to the level of union with Him we cannot possibly attain ourselves.

Faith moves up the hierarchy of truth and we recognize the untruth we were accepting which was replacing God with lesser, contingent, created good that, while not contrary to Him, keeps us from a deeper union with the Transcendent God. In this materially considered modern philosophy that the world and worldly embrace, atheistic notions make more sense until we find that this world view is deficient, leading even to notions of the world around us cannot be known or “proven” or that our every possible choice leads to a new universe timeline. All the possible choices of everyone everywhere lead to a series of “possible worlds”! Philosophy has truly failed at the study of wisdom by today’s standards.

God is not merely an anchor holding us back from falling into this abyss of inane thought, but is the transcendent source of being, essence, and existence. Formal and final causality considered rightly as a union of matter and form leads our sense knowledge to the depth of perfecting union with the Transcendent Truth of God as the source of all there is.
 
deathwinger said:
I am not sure where to turn. This past summer I tried to return to my Catholic roots and got hit in the face by atheism. I am struggling with trying to reconcile my faith with reason and everytime I think I can see the light, I slip. I am not sure where to turn to for help. I cannot even pray at this point. I was not sure if there was already a thread for this problem. If there is, could someone point me in the right direction or if not, any help would appreciated.
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It sounds like i was in a similiar boat as you a while back, and I found two sources that did exactly what I needed. Explain the existence of God using logic and reasoning. And then to show me how from this logic we can reason why Catholicism is the one truth.

A book called Handbook of Christian Apologetics, which I do now believe there is a second version called Handbook of Catholic Apologetics: Reasoned Answers to Questions of Faith. I had a flip through this and it contained logical reasoning such as the proofs of Gods existence.

Then a video by Tim Staples called ‘Why be Catholic?’. In the first half he explains how we KNOW their is a God from logic and essentially science.

The video is a great introduction, and the book i mentioned I think goes into mroe depth, but check out your Catholic Library, I am sure they will have a copy.

“Knock and the door will be opened for you” (Matthew 7:7)
“The truth shall set you free” (John 8:32)

God bless 🙂
 
Hello DeathWinger,

If you’re able-bodied, there is a very simple act and prayer you can try when you are having a crisis of faith. Kneel before the Blessed Sacrament and say, “Lord, I want to believe; help me with my disbelief.” Follow this up with one Hail Mary.

PS: You may also want to change your ID… sometimes you have to make yourself happy; it doesn’t always come naturally. Wallowing on dark subjects or themes won’t help you much. 😉 I know, I’ve been there; I used to want to own my own hearse. :rolleyes:

Oremus pro invicem,

Sean C. :knight2:
 
Thank you for the replies. I was not sure anyone was responding to the thread. I was waiting for an email alert, so I am glad that I have decided to check the thread directly.

A little more background information:
I was raised Roman Catholic and married a Southern Baptist. I lapsed greatly during the first 7 years of our marriage. I was not until the marriages of two of my college teammates that made me question where my life was heading. I thought I believed in God, but was not sure if I was just being lazy or if I was just hanging on to the hope that there was more to this exsistence. I went to confession twice in the past year and recieved communnion twice. I made attempts to pray the Rosary as well.

My issues began when looking for information to try and get my wife to understand that I could not go to a church that was at odds with my belief, let alone allow our children to be raised in the ignorance of science. So, I began to look for ammo to bolster my arguements and I found them. But, I also found more.

First off, let me say I could never buy into philosphy of the New Atheist. It is grotesque. However, their science, in terms of life orgins, natural law, and thoughts of the afterlife were very good and I was left with this lingering thought that if I did not both to look at both sides of the coin, then I might end up lying to myself. That was four months ago and I am no closer to a conclusion. I would say I am about 60/40 in the idea of there not being a god.

I know from being raised as a Catholic, were are supposed to seek, but what if my questions lead me to the conclusion that a god was not neccessary? Like I said, there are times when I feel like I can see the big picture, then I loose it.

In regards to my ID, I play a table top game called Warhammer 40k and the Deathwing is an army that I use. Easy for me to remember my login ID.

Thanks for the links. I will get back with more specific questions.
 
deathwinger said:
I am not sure where to turn. This past summer I tried to return to my Catholic roots and got hit in the face by atheism. I am struggling with trying to reconcile my faith with reason and everytime I think I can see the light, I slip. I am not sure where to turn to for help. I cannot even pray at this point. I was not sure if there was already a thread for this problem. If there is, could someone point me in the right direction or if not, any help would appreciated.
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Hi deathwinger.

God love you. When the angels sung our Saviour’s praise at His Holy Nativity they proclaimed peace…to men of good will. What you desire, your will, is of the first importance. Your intellect is also very important, and not to be neglected, but in my opinion it is second. If you WANT to believe, realize that this is by God’s grace! Why do you even want to believe? Because of God not you alone! It is wonderful. Be thankful for such a great grace. The grace of a good will toward God.

Do you think the rest of us never get “hit in the face by atheism”? If it isn’t atheism its doubts about the Church’s infallibility, or the reality of Christ in the Eucharist, or something else equally disturbing. If God gives us the grace of a good will, as He has with you, that is the main thing.

We cannot live with an unsatisfied intellect. If being Catholic continues to always seem crazy, I will be surprised. I know you didn’t say that you thought it was crazy, but isn’t that what it means to oppose reason? The faith is not in opposition to reason, and I find nowadays that when I am beset with doubts, upon reflection I find that the occasional doubts are what is unreasonable.

May God help you. I know He will. Take good care.

Planty Pall
 
Greetings DeathWinger

I’m sorry for your trouble I know I have been there too.

Warhammer is awesome btw.

My only advice is it seems like the others are pointing you in the right direction. Try to listen to the whispers in your heart and ask God for discernment. The Holy Spirit is always with you and pleading for you.

It may help you to know that the Catholic Church developed the scientific method and laws of evidence and without her preserving the works of the ancient world our sense of history would be in utter darkness. We would have no civilization as today without her influence and no democracy either.

Maybe reading up on the church fathers will help you. I will pray for you.
 
deathwinger said:
First off, let me say I could never buy into philosphy of the New Atheist. It is grotesque. However, their science, in terms of life orgins, natural law, and thoughts of the afterlife were very good and I was left with this lingering thought that if I did not both to look at both sides of the coin, then I might end up lying to myself. That was four months ago and I am no closer to a conclusion. I would say I am about 60/40 in the idea of there not being a god.
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Hi Deathwinger,

May I ask what in the New Atheist science left a lingering doubt in you. Like I said before I have found that a lot of Atheist’s claim more than the actual science can tell them.

I think it is commendable in your search for truth and I hope you come to a conclusion that is right for you.

May I make a suggestion. I know you said you have been unable to pray recently. Have you tried going and sitting in front of the tabernacle a couple of hours each week. It is a nice place to contemplate things and perhaps you may feel the tug of Jesus more strongly if you are in His prensence and surrounded by the beauty of the Church. You don’t even have to pray.

Just a thought.
 
The philosphy of Christopher Hitchens is what got me to reconsider what I believed. After that, Richard Dawkins is what took it another step further. Then of course there is Bart Erhman, who is not atheist, but brought up good points about the Bible. Evolution was something that never bothered me nor the formation of the universe. What gives me pause is the creation of life itself. RNA and DNA formation. I know for some people, such as Francis Collins, this was evidence of God for them, but for me, it left me dumbstruck.

If it could be shown that chemcials and gravity created the first self replicating RNA molecule, then what use is God. Do not get me wrong, I do believe that there is a universal intelligence that created the universe, but did it have a direct (name removed by moderator)ut life and does it care?

Philisophical arguements are what got the ball rolling. At first it made me realize that as humans, we like to think of god as a scientist who does everything rather than a parent who guides. However when stepping back and looking at everything, I am confused.

I realize that my arguements do not have any order to them, but these are the problems. In terms of the philosphy, lets talk about the God of the OT. Was he evil?
 
No God is always just. The God of the OT is the same as the God of the NT. Maybe some others will be better equipped to explain this.
 
deathwinger said:
The philosphy of Christopher Hitchens is what got me to reconsider what I believed. After that, Richard Dawkins is what took it another step further. Then of course there is Bart Erhman, who is not atheist, but brought up good points about the Bible. Evolution was something that never bothered me nor the formation of the universe. What gives me pause is the creation of life itself. RNA and DNA formation. I know for some people, such as Francis Collins, this was evidence of God for them, but for me, it left me dumbstruck.

If it could be shown that chemcials and gravity created the first self replicating RNA molecule, then what use is God. Do not get me wrong, I do believe that there is a universal intelligence that created the universe, but did it have a direct (name removed by moderator)ut life and does it care?

Philisophical arguements are what got the ball rolling. At first it made me realize that as humans, we like to think of god as a scientist who does everything rather than a parent who guides. However when stepping back and looking at everything, I am confused.

I realize that my arguements do not have any order to them, but these are the problems. In terms of the philosphy, lets talk about the God of the OT. Was he evil?
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The God of the OT is a loving Father. He was preparing the Israelites, who believed in One God for the Incarnation of the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

God sent many prophets and they were told to kill the people whose lands they were told to enter because they were pagans and took part in abominations such as temple prostitution and the burning of their babies to false gods. To kill them was the way to be rid of those abominations.

Many times the Israelites disobeyed and did not kill all of them and then they intermarried with them and got involved with their pagan practices. Each time they had to be purified and suffered much because of not being faithful to the Lord and all He had done for them.

No, it was not God who was evil. I trust all that He did and only He knows the culpability of those who were killed by the Israelites.
 
DeathWinger,

Been in a similar place. I’ve grown spirituality by leaps and bounds since even this summer.

I highly, highly recommend you sign up for the Catholic Home Study. amm.org/chss/chss.asp

Fr. Lukefahr’s books are amazing!

The correspondence courses are free (I always give a donation).

Get your hands on Rediscover Catholicism by Matthew Kelly.

God bless you on your journey!!!

CarrieAnne
 
deathwinger said:
Philisophical arguements are what got the ball rolling. At first it made me realize that as humans, we like to think of god as a scientist who does everything rather than a parent who guides. However when stepping back and looking at everything, I am confused.
Actually, I think Catholics like to think of God as our Father and the Church as our brothers and sister. We are a family with God at the head. I have never thought of God as just a scientist but more of a parent who does continue to guide. I mean look at our prayers, the “Our Father,” or views on Mary as our "Holy Mother’ etc etc…
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Alright, I do not think I am going to get anywhere if I try to think about what God does on the Earth and whether or not it is good or evil. There will always be varying opinions. The theist usually determines that God is just and the atheist concludes that God is evil.

Let’s shift towards science. What are the arrangements from science that would allow, not necessarily prove, God?

Like I said before, it is not hard for me to rationalize a supreme, eternal being that brought the universe into existence. Something outside of time would have to be responsible for that. What I am wondering is if God was responsible for life.

I do not want to sound condescending or rude, but I would like to shift away from the God of the Bible to the God of the Universe. I do enjoy listening to Fr. Spitzer’s podcast on Magis Reason Faith which argues faith from these points. Good website. I need to be able to reconcile origins of life, evolution, yada yada. These are the things that are causing problems. These are the arguments that give me pause when I listen to the arguments against theism.

Currently, I have God on the shelf. I have not written God of as a possibility, but as of now I am not sure about Gods influence. I do feel a pull, but I want to make sure that I am not lying to myself. I am not using that last statement as an insult, but I want this to be real for me.
 
4 months have past and I would have to label myself as an agnostic that is a Catholic sympathest( not sure if that is a word). For those of you that provided suggestions, thank you. I wish I had discovered Edward Feser a longtime ago.

I would like to hash out some more thing, if anyone is interestested. I believe in evolution and I having a difficult time discovering the Church’s stance. I know what they mean by theistic evolution, but that ultimately entails. Any thoughts?
 
deathwinger said:
4 months have past and I would have to label myself as an agnostic that is a Catholic sympathest( not sure if that is a word). For those of you that provided suggestions, thank you. I wish I had discovered Edward Feser a longtime ago.

I would like to hash out some more thing, if anyone is interestested. I believe in evolution and I having a difficult time discovering the Church’s stance. I know what they mean by theistic evolution, but that ultimately entails. Any thoughts?
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Evolution is ok if we posit that when man developed from animal, that at some point,God infused a human soul just as he infuses a human soul in every newborn today.

The second point of evolution is that all men and woman had Adam and Eve as their first parents.

Now if I may, I would like to suggest a prayer that will help you.

Keep saying,“Lord, have mercy on me a sinner.” Anytime you have a free moment, just keep saying, “Lord,have mercy on me a sinner.” He always answers the truthful and those in need. No matter if you are tired, busy, lazy, indifferent, in a bad mood, or in any other condition, just always say, “Lord have mercy on me a sinner.”

Even if you feel it is a waste of time, still say “Lord have mercy on me a sinner.” One instant of his illumination on you mind is able to do in one second what will take you months, if not years, to accomplish. In a flick of moment, all your problems will suddenly vanish and you will feel like a new man. Remember to say, “Lord have mercy on me a sinner.”

He loves to hear how much you need him when you tell Him that you can not do it on you own, but only with his help. That will help you more than all the intellectual activity you may string together. In a flash, it’ll be over. And afterwards you will wonder what it was all about in the first place.

Remember, “Lord have mercy on me a sinner.” Ps. " I love you Lord."
 
Hello. This is my first post** ever** on any site so I hope i do ok 🙂

I know what your going through deathwinger I have exactly the same thoughts myself all the time, even just a couple days ago, so you are not alone!

One thing i notice is that i always question God and the theists instead of questioning the atheists. I never ask them whats there proof for such and such, why should i believe them over the thiests? Why should i think he doesn’t exist? Are there no explanations except theirs?

One quote i found helpful was from chesterton which said something like a healthy man has always left himself free to doubt his gods, but free also to believe in them.

Also I noticed that you said you have no problem with a God that created the universe, but can’t understand that he created life. Isn’t life something in the universe? If God created the first thing, how can he not have created the second thing which is dependant on the first? Sorry i don’t really know how to explain what i mean i hope you understand 🙂 If God created the seed, did he not create the flower?

Saying “Lord have mercy on me a sinner” is definetly good advice!

I hope this wasn’t too long.

God bless
 
Thanks guys. In reply to Fox, I do not have an issue with god creating life. It seems to me more probable at the moment that something would have been necessary to kick start life. So i can see where you are going. I would have to say that I fit somewhere in the area regarding the quote from chesterton.
 
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