Help with Green Scapular

[Little_Mary]

I’d love to read posts from people who credit the Green Scapular in helping with the conversion of friends/family members.

I have been praying for the conversion of a particular family member for over four years now. This past November, I was able to place a Green Scapular in the room of this person.

It’s just that I’m getting a little discouraged. Any words of encouragement?

 

[bpbasilphx]

I hope you don’t think the Green Scapular or any other sacramental is a magic charm or fetish that will somehow overpower the will and free choice of another person.

 

[cheddarsox]

I find the practice of placing a green scapular secretly amongst the possessions of another person abhorent.

It is no different than a person who practices magic or witchcraft placing a charm, amulet, etc in the home of someone who does not practice their religion to influence their behavior. No matter how pure you think your intent is, it is dishonest and wrong.

If you respect the other person enough to want to share your faith with them, then do not do it secretly. You may share the green scapular openly, and let them know how much you care for them, and that you will be praying for them and are happy at any time to pray with them or provide information on the faith to them. You can ask them to keep the scapular among their things.

The hiding of sacramentals like that only encourages others to liken Catholicism to paganism and witchcraft, and, if found, can lead to misunderstanding, anger, and distrust of the Church and the faithful.

Please respect others, the gift of free will God gave everyone, and the power of the Holy Spirit enough not to engage in such a practice.

If your faith is true, your God is worthy, subterfuge need not be part of the conversion process.

 

[Emmanuel111]

Prayers can change everything!

 

[BeeSweet]

I find the practice of placing a green scapular secretly amongst the possessions of another person abhorent.

It is no different than a person who practices magic or witchcraft placing a charm, amulet, etc in the home of someone who does not practice their religion to influence their behavior. No matter how pure you think your intent is, it is dishonest and wrong.

If you respect the other person enough to want to share your faith with them, then do not do it secretly. You may share the green scapular openly, and let them know how much you care for them, and that you will be praying for them and are happy at any time to pray with them or provide information on the faith to them. You can ask them to keep the scapular among their things.

The hiding of sacramentals like that only encourages others to liken Catholicism to paganism and witchcraft, and, if found, can lead to misunderstanding, anger, and distrust of the Church and the faithful.

Please respect others, the gift of free will God gave everyone, and the power of the Holy Spirit enough not to engage in such a practice.

If your faith is true, your God is worthy, subterfuge need not be part of the conversion process.

Please don’t feel disrespected cheddarsox, but I feel it necessary to qualify your response for the OP with the following post from you in another thread:

I do not believe in the Catholic god, or a personal god of any kind. So, technically I am an atheist. Some people felt I lost my faith, but Catholicism was more of a spiritual discipline for me than a faith. I liked it, but I never truly believed it.

Little Mary, the efficacy of the green scapular devotion (which is not a true scapular, but more of a badge), is dependent on the faith of the person who is praying. So cheddarsox’s response, although I don’t doubt well meaning, is not very helpful considering her lack of faith. Faith seeks understanding. The green scapular is nothing without your own personal conversion. I believe that is one way that the scapular shows it’s power, is in the praying person being an actual beacon to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Keep in mind this devotion is to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and what that means, learn more about devotion to the Immaculate Heart. And when you pray the scapular prayer, pray for every person and intention associated with it, not just the one loved one for whom you’re hoping conversion. Put your total confidence in the intercessory power of Our Lady. Don’t wait around for signs from your loved one of conversion to test the scapular to see if it’s working, that’s not confidence, that’s not faith, and that sort of attitude will interfere with the divine intent of the scapular promises.

Your sole intent of practicing this devotion for your loved one should be love. Do not approach it with any manipulative intentions, you must have only love for your family member in your heart, and wanting their eternal salvation. Their conversion will not happen when you want it to happen, that is not the intent of the scapular. You should practice this devotion with the sincerest love for them and for all sinners in need of conversion, as well as with total confidence in the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

 

[cheddarsox]

Please don’t feel disrespected cheddarsox, but I feel it necessary to qualify your response for the OP with the following post from you in another thread:

curious as to which part of my post needed to be “qualified”? And which part is wrong, tainted, incorrect, disrespectful, colored or otherwise problematic due to my beliefs?

Imagine how a Catholic would (rightly) feel if they found that a person of another faith had planted a sacred/holy/consecrated/charged item among their belongings and was praying or making sacrifice to a deity or spirit on their behalf.

Would it not cause MORE animosity, mistrust, fear, etc of that other belief system?

Catholicism has much to offer (a part of my other post you didn’t feel the need to post here), so much so that I don’t think one needs to practice this sort of thing. It is much better shared openly.

Sacramentals serve as holy reminders to believers. That is their purpose, they are never to be understood or used in superstitious ways. The line between hiding a blessed object in a non believers possessions and superstition is dotted at best.

If it is the faith and prayers of the believer that are effective, then why bother with hiding the cloth among the possessions of someone who does NOT believe?

But, as you know, I am no longer Catholic, so I will politely bow out, though, under the circumstances of this having to do with the conversion of one who is not Catholic, I thought my respectful (name removed by moderator)ut might be pertinent. If I found one of these hidden among my things, it would confirm my worst suspicions about the practice of Catholicism, rather than my best hope for the faith.

cheddar

 

[BeeSweet]

curious as to which part of my post needed to be “qualified”? And which part is wrong, tainted, incorrect, disrespectful, colored or otherwise problematic due to my beliefs?

I clearly stated it is your lack of faith which needed to be brought to light when speaking of this devotion. I do not mean that as any sort of an insult or intend any sort of offense. I just feel it necessary for someone who lacks faith when speaking on an article of faith to be honest.

Imagine how a Catholic would (rightly) feel if they found that a person of another faith had planted a sacred/holy/consecrated/charged item among their belongings and was praying or making sacrifice to a deity or spirit on their behalf.

I am catholic, and I would not feel slighted in the least if someone were behaving as you describe on my behalf. I’d find it amusing. I am quite secure in my faith though. I could understand someone who is not secure feeling uneasy under those circumstances.

Catholicism has much to offer (a part of my other post you didn’t feel the need to post here)…

That section of your post was not pertinent to this particular thread, which is about a particular devotion and not the catholic faith as a whole. Your full post is fully accessible when clicking on the blue arrow inside the quote text.

I apologize for making you feel slighted in any way by my post. That was not my intent. My intent was to help Little Mary understand the devotion of the green scapular better. I felt that some of your post held truth, but needed to be qualified being that it came from a non-believer. Please do not feel offended. You are correct in pointing out that the green scapular is not a talisman, but to call “abhorrent” a devotion approved by the church is worthy of qualification.

Again, please understand I meant you no personal offense. God bless and keep you.

 

[cheddarsox]

I clearly stated it is your lack of faith which needed to be brought to light when speaking of this devotion. I do not mean that as any sort of an insult or intend any sort of offense. I just feel it necessary for someone who lacks faith when speaking on an article of faith to be honest.

I am catholic, and I would not feel slighted in the least if someone were behaving as you describe on my behalf. I’d find it amusing. I am quite secure in my faith though. I could understand someone who is not secure feeling uneasy under those circumstances.

That section of your post was not pertinent to this particular thread, which is about a particular devotion and not the catholic faith as a whole. Your full post is fully accessible when clicking on the blue arrow inside the quote text.

I apologize for making you feel slighted in any way by my post. That was not my intent. My intent was to help Little Mary understand the devotion of the green scapular better. I felt that some of your post held truth, but needed to be qualified being that it came from a non-believer. Please do not feel offended. You are correct in pointing out that the green scapular is not a talisman, but to call “abhorrent” a devotion approved by the church is worthy of qualification.

Again, please understand I meant you no personal offense. God bless and keep you.

 

[cheddarsox]

I clearly stated it is your lack of faith which needed to be brought to light when speaking of this devotion. I do not mean that as any sort of an insult or intend any sort of offense. I just feel it necessary for someone who lacks faith when speaking on an article of faith to be honest.

My faith is stated in my profile, I am not, nor never have sought to be dishonest about my beliefs. I’m not offended of insulted. I know I am not Catholic, and don’t consider it an insult to not be Catholic. I just wondered what about my post was changed or qualified by that fact.

I am catholic, and I would not feel slighted in the least if someone were behaving as you describe on my behalf. I’d find it amusing. I am quite secure in my faith though. I could understand someone who is not secure feeling uneasy under those circumstances.

Glad to hear it. I regularly read posts on these forums by Catholics who feel rather differently than you.They talk about their encounters with objects of other faiths with alarm, fear and repulsion. I don’t assume they are insecure in their faith, just not amused when people of another faith are attempting to secretly manipulate them.

You are correct in pointing out that the green scapular is not a talisman, but to call “abhorrent” a devotion approved by the church is worthy of qualification.

Again, please understand I meant you no personal offense. God bless and keep you.

I do not find the scapular nor the prayer abhorrent. Only when people choose to HIDE it. I honestly think it demeans the Catholic faith to do so. I guess it is the parallel of you feeling I was being dishonest because I did not disclose that I am a pantheist and former Catholic in my post. I am ‘qualifying’ the way that some people choose to use the green scapular. I consider hiding it dishonest, just as you considered me not sharing my religious beliefs to be so.

I have met many converts in my life, both those who came to Catholicism and those who left and honestly, I know more who left due to such practices amongst the faithful than those who were converted to the faith by such practices.

Here is something to consider. Catholicism teaches that one should avoid behaviors that are likely to bring scandal to the faith, even if the act itself is not sinful. So, an engaged couple should not share a home prior to marriage even if they were not sharing a bed, because it would cause scandal to the faith when people saw what appeared to be living in sin.

I think that this is such a case, why hide the sacramental, which causes others to think Catholicism embraces superstition and magical practices? When one could just as easily be honest with another and say “You are very important to me, and I’d love to share this token of my faith with you.” or send it in a card, or give it as a gift. Then the other person could choose to keep it or not keep it.

I think the world would be a better place if more people were Catholic, rather than what they are now. I’m not against conversion, but I am against superstition, and dishonesty. You don’t need it.

 

[DJgang]

I placed a Green Scapular under my husband’s side of the bed a little over a year ago. To me, it’s a reminder to pray for his conversion every night because I know it’s there. Also, I like to think that the blessing attached to it, as well as my prayers, remain with him all night.

Meantime, he’s been going through some spiritual struggles and has attended Mass with me the past month…

God bless.

Dana

 

[Mirdath]

Nicely done, cheddar

A little part of me cringes every time I see a thread about green scapulars, because this always comes up. I don’t have much to add, except that regarding the green scapular as a magical fantastical whoziwhatsis o’ conversion +5 is about as respectful not only of Catholicism, but also of the sacramental itself, as calling the brown scapular a wearable ‘get out of hell free’ card.

 

[BeeSweet]

I find the practice of placing a green scapular secretly amongst the possessions of another person abhorent.

I do not find the scapular nor the prayer abhorrent. Only when people choose to HIDE it.

Placing the scapular among the belongings of the person for whom you’re praying, even unbeknown to that person is an acceptable method of practicing the devotion.

I consider hiding it dishonest, just as you considered me not sharing my religious beliefs to be so.

My comment on honesty was directly related to your lack of faith when speaking on an article of faith. I did not accuse you of being dishonest, I felt it would have been more honest had you qualified your opinion by stating you do not observe the faith, because it makes a big difference particularly where this devotion is concerned, a big difference. Again, my sole intent in my response is to aid the OP, and I felt your post was misleading (not to imply that you necessarily intended it to be misleading). That which you find abhorrent is an approved method of practicing the devotion. Whether or not you find it to be dishonest or abhorrent is immaterial considering your lack of faith.

…why hide the sacramental, which causes others to think Catholicism embraces superstition and magical practices? When one could just as easily be honest with another and say “You are very important to me, and I’d love to share this token of my faith with you.” or send it in a card, or give it as a gift. Then the other person could choose to keep it or not keep it.

You can do either with this devotion. Why you may prefer to not divulge the placement of the scapular is going to vary depending on the circumstances, and the relationship between the giver and the recipient. Anyone who believes this particular method of practicing the devotion is a form of superstition or magic is simply mistaken, providing the purity if intention of the devotee. There is nothing anymore dishonest about placing the scapular among a person’s belongings than my placing any other gift without your knowledge among your belongings. It is an act of generosity and kindness.

I think the world would be a better place if more people were Catholic, rather than what they are now.

That’s such a nice thing to say.

The sole intent of this thread is to help the OP better understand the green scapular devotion, and offer her encouragement. That is my only purpose here. This is an approved devotion of the church, and I just hope to clear up the common misconceptions that exist about it, misconceptions which you referred to yourself in your post.

 

[DJgang]

Since when did the spirituality forum become a debate forum?

Recently, it’s been nice to converse in this section, with other Catholics about *our *spirituality without people who are non-catholic popping in…of course, free country, but it was nice to see on this forum occasionally…

So, what has the forum become? A debate about our spirituality or support?

That’s my question…

 

[marymol]

Little Mary, the efficacy of the green scapular devotion (which is not a true scapular, but more of a badge), is dependent on the faith of the person who is praying. conversion. Put your total confidence in the intercessory power of Our Lady. Don’t wait around for signs from your loved one of conversion to test the scapular to see if it’s working, that’s not confidence, that’s not faith, and that sort of attitude will interfere with the divine intent of the scapular promises.

Your sole intent of practicing this devotion for your loved one should be love. Do not approach it with any manipulative intentions, you must have only love for your family member in your heart, and wanting their eternal salvation. Their conversion will not happen when you want it to happen, that is not the intent of the scapular. You should practice this devotion with the sincerest love for them and for all sinners in need of conversion, as well as with total confidence in the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

Thank you for these very good points on the devotion of the Green Scapular - who among us could not use a bit more faith and conversion for ourselves …a bit more love for our neighbor …this esp. so since we are one body …in more ways than we often like to think of …taking in the same breath …leaving our skin cells whereever we are …and being beareres of good or evil …being the salt or that which has lost its saltiness - salt that is only good to be trampled …mourning for those who choose to be so … and wishing that the saltiness be restored for them … …

Can The Woman who was given power to trample the head of the serepent and whose tears are most precious…can she not help !

Those few words of prayer related to the devotion -’ Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us now and at the hour of our death ’ are almost always an instant ( by no means the exclusive ! ) assurance of help,esp. in the all important area of peace !

Peace !

 

[Little_Mary]

Thanks for all the replies.

I am very much praying for my family members out of love. This one family member in particular I have spoken with several times about faith, etc. It is not my intention to manipulate anyone.

Being human, however, these posts remind me to remember that and not get lost in looking for the end result. I will continue with a renewed effort to pray out of love and be trusting and faithful.

So thanks, everyone, for that.

Oh, and cheddarsox has been added to my prayer list.

God bless you, cheddarsox.
(luckily, I don’t know where you live, so don’t worry about any magical items appearing among your belongings!)

 

[Mirdath]

Recently, it’s been nice to converse in this section, with other Catholics about *our *spirituality without people who are non-catholic popping in…of course, free country, but it was nice to see on this forum occasionally…

I’ve been posting here on and off for quite a while, and where I go, chaos follows, so that answers that, I guess
Little Mary:

I am very much praying for my family members out of love. This one family member in particular I have spoken with several times about faith, etc. It is not my intention to manipulate anyone.

So don’t be afraid to be honest and upfront about it! The privilege of coming ‘as a thief in the night’ is reserved for one greater than you, no? Don’t sneak around and try to magic people into Catholicism, give them the scapular as a gift that means something to you that you hope they’ll appreciate. The kind of passive-aggressive ‘evangelism’ the green scapular seems to inspire is unworthy of any faith.

Besides, the recipient is much less likely to throw out an honest gift than some magic charm he or she finds under the mattress. I still have a scapular medal one of my parents gave me after I left the faith.