Help with qoute

[Redbaron998]

Hey all, need a hand with one.

The following qoute has been put against me in a debate,

“Having entered deeply into the history of salvation, Mary, in a way, unites in her person and re-echoes the most important doctrines of the faith: and when she is the subject of PREACHING and WORSHIP she prompts the faithful to come to her Son, to his sacrifice and to the love of the Father.” (Vatical Council II Vol. 1, pp. 420 and 421)

Now the problem of course is the word worship. The book appears to be “Vatican Council II, Vol. 1: The Conciliar and Postconciliar Documents by Fr. Austin Flannery”

Now as far as I can tell this qoute is not actually in the Conciliar documents but I dont know where this qoute is coming from since I dont have the book nor access to it. Can anyone give me a hand that may have it?

Thanks God Bless

 

[Bartolome_Casas]

Hey all, need a hand with one.

The following qoute has been put against me in a debate,

“Having entered deeply into the history of salvation, Mary, in a way, unites in her person and re-echoes the most important doctrines of the faith: and when she is the subject of PREACHING and WORSHIP she prompts the faithful to come to her Son, to his sacrifice and to the love of the Father.” (Vatical Council II Vol. 1, pp. 420 and 421)

Now the problem of course is the word worship. The book appears to be “Vatican Council II, Vol. 1: The Conciliar and Postconciliar Documents by Fr. Austin Flannery”

Now as far as I can tell this qoute is not actually in the Conciliar documents but I dont know where this qoute is coming from since I dont have the book nor access to it. Can anyone give me a hand that may have it?

Thanks God Bless

The quote is from an official Vatican II document. But the translation of the passage into English is faulty in the source you quoted.

Here’s the official English translation of that very same passage from the Vatican web site:

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

“For Mary, who since her entry into salvation history unites in herself and re-echoes the greatest teachings of the faith as she is proclaimed and venerated, calls the faithful to her Son and His sacrifice and to the love of the Father.”

The document is titled “The Dogmatic Constitution on the Church.” Go to paragraph 65.

In that book you quoted, the translations from the original Latin were done by Fr. Austin Flannery. His translation were never in any way an official translation. They were just his own work. Perhaps his translations were published with the approval of a bishop, but even that is no absolute guarantee that everything in the book is 100% correct. Why Fr. Flannery translated the Latin text to the word “worship” in reference to the Virgin Mary I have no idea. It seems like a really bad decision, a really incorrect translation.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

Correct

The Vatican II document is “DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH, LUMEN GENTIUM (Light of the World).” The proper translation is ‘veneration’, not ‘worship’.

 

[JerryZ]

Hey all, need a hand with one.

The following qoute has been put against me in a debate,

“Having entered deeply into the history of salvation, Mary, in a way, unites in her person and re-echoes the most important doctrines of the faith: and when she is the subject of PREACHING and WORSHIP she prompts the faithful to come to her Son, to his sacrifice and to the love of the Father.” (Vatical Council II Vol. 1, pp. 420 and 421)

Now the problem of course is the word worship. The book appears to be “Vatican Council II, Vol. 1: The Conciliar and Postconciliar Documents by Fr. Austin Flannery”

Now as far as I can tell this qoute is not actually in the Conciliar documents but I dont know where this qoute is coming from since I dont have the book nor access to it. Can anyone give me a hand that may have it?

Thanks God Bless

Someone once told me “never haggle with the clowns, always deal with the owner of the circus”…

Here you can print your own “original document” don’t use middlemen if avoidable.

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

 

[guanophore]

Hey all, need a hand with one.

The following qoute has been put against me in a debate,

“Having entered deeply into the history of salvation, Mary, in a way, unites in her person and re-echoes the most important doctrines of the faith: and when she is the subject of PREACHING and WORSHIP she prompts the faithful to come to her Son, to his sacrifice and to the love of the Father.” (Vatical Council II Vol. 1, pp. 420 and 421)

Now the problem of course is the word worship. The book appears to be “Vatican Council II, Vol. 1: The Conciliar and Postconciliar Documents by Fr. Austin Flannery”

Now as far as I can tell this qoute is not actually in the Conciliar documents but I dont know where this qoute is coming from since I dont have the book nor access to it. Can anyone give me a hand that may have it?

Thanks God Bless

The language is the problem, not the practice. there are several Latin words that are translated into English as “worship”. One of the middle English words “your worship” was still in common use about a century ago in England for aristocrats.

No practice of the Catholic Church has received more attention and abuse from Her opponents than the ancient custom of honoring the heroic servants of God. Idolatry and superstition have been charged against Her.

The Church has been in existence nearly two thousand years. She has on Her list of known Saints many thousands of names of men and women whom She honors and pays real religious homage. However, never in Her history has She given adoration to them. The Catholic Church makes a complete and clear distinction between the supreme worship which is given to God alone and the relative and inferior homage which is paid to the Saints.

Catholics have always distinguished emphatically between the cultus dulia, which translates as “the homage of veneration,” and the cultus latria, which signifies “the worship of adoration.”

Veneration is paid to the Saints. A higher form of it, called hyperdulia, is given to the Blessed Virgin Mary by virtue of Her singular privilege as Mother of God; but adoration is given to God alone. Any attempt to give adoration to a creature would certainly be false worship - but the Catholic Church has never given it. She adores God and God only.

 

[guanophore]

Hey all, need a hand with one.

The following qoute has been put against me in a debate,

“Having entered deeply into the history of salvation, Mary, in a way, unites in her person and re-echoes the most important doctrines of the faith: and when she is the subject of PREACHING and WORSHIP she prompts the faithful to come to her Son, to his sacrifice and to the love of the Father.” (Vatical Council II Vol. 1, pp. 420 and 421)

Now the problem of course is the word worship. The book appears to be “Vatican Council II, Vol. 1: The Conciliar and Postconciliar Documents by Fr. Austin Flannery”

Now as far as I can tell this qoute is not actually in the Conciliar documents but I dont know where this qoute is coming from since I dont have the book nor access to it. Can anyone give me a hand that may have it?

Thanks God Bless

The language is the problem, not the practice. there are several Latin words that are translated into English as “worship”. One of the middle English words “your worship” was still in common use about a century ago in England for aristocrats.

No practice of the Catholic Church has received more attention and abuse from Her opponents than the ancient custom of honoring the heroic servants of God. Idolatry and superstition have been charged against Her.

The Church has been in existence nearly two thousand years. She has on Her list of known Saints many thousands of names of men and women whom She honors and pays real religious homage. However, never in Her history has She given adoration to them. The Catholic Church makes a complete and clear distinction between the supreme worship which is given to God alone and the relative and inferior homage which is paid to the Saints.

Catholics have always distinguished emphatically between the cultus dulia, which translates as “the homage of veneration,” and the cultus latria, which signifies “the worship of adoration.”

Veneration is paid to the Saints. A higher form of it, called hyperdulia, is given to the Blessed Virgin Mary by virtue of Her singular privilege as Mother of God; but adoration is given to God alone. Any attempt to give adoration to a creature would certainly be false worship - but the Catholic Church has never given it. She adores God and God only.

Here are some scriptural references to veneration, which in Scripture is translated “honor”

“There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for every one who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.” Rom 2:9-11

“love one another with brotherly affection; outdo one another in showing honor.” Rom 12:10

" Pay all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due." Rom 13:7

“Honor your father and mother” (this is the first commandment with a promise), 3 “that it may be well with you and that you may live long on the earth.” Eph 6:1-3

" So receive him in the Lord with all joy; and honor such men, 30 for he nearly died for the work of Christ, risking his life to complete your service to me "
Phil 2:29-30

“Honor widows who are real widows.” 1 Tim 5:3

“Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching;” 1 Tim 5:17-18

“Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God; consider the outcome of their life, and imitate their faith.” Heb 13:7