Help with responding to a Mormon friend

[Craig12]

I have a friend I attend law school with that is Mormon. He is a terrific person and as of recent we have been getting into serious discussions about why Mormonism is the way to go. I have consistently held that it is fundamentally flawed, and that all we need is Faith in Christ to be saved. I quoted John 5:24 as well as many other verses, however he consistently holds that our baptisms lack “authority.” He contends that Mormons have authority through Joseph Smith, who apparently gained authority through Christ himself. He believes that when Jesus died, and the other apostles who Christ gave power to, that baptism with the proper authority is no longer possible.

Thus, he thinks that although Catholics and other Christians have a belief in Christ, they cannot spend eternity in Heaven, but in some other form of heaven…

What do I say? What other scripture should i direct him too? How do I show him that all you need is faith in Christ, and not this Joseph Smith character?

In Christ,

Craig

 

[VociMike]

Sounds to me like he’s trying to have it both ways. Neither Jesus nor the Apostles are still on the earth, so Christian baptisms are no longer valid. Joseph Smith is no longer on the earth, but Mormon baptisms are still valid.

 

[joelmichael]

It is an authority issue…who has authority to teach about Christ. Is it Joseph Smith (or any invidual you can name) or the Catholic Church?

As Catholics, we know that Christ founded the Church by teaching the Apostles. The Apostles handed down that teaching to the next generation. That generation handed it on to the next. And so on to the present day Magisterium.

In my view, your friend will be hard pressed to prove either of two things: 1) God gave Joseph Smith authority and/or 2) that he took it away from the Catholic Church at some point in history.

JoelMichael

ps. Becareful about your own formulation for salvation. It isn’t faith alone, it is Grace alone.

 

[Craig12]

His contention is that Joseph Smith has direct decedents thus power still exists on earth to baptize and it only exists in the Mormon church. I guess I am looking for some kind of response that says why we only need Christ, and not some random person who claims Christ gave him authority, and how the Catholic Church still has authority to baptize.

 

[Craig12]

It is an authority issue…who has authority to teach about Christ. Is it Joseph Smith (or any invidual you can name) or the Catholic Church?

ps. Becareful about your own formulation for salvation. It isn’t faith alone, it is Grace alone.

Yes, of course, mistake on my part!

 

[FCEGM]

I have a friend I attend law school with that is Mormon. He is a terrific person and as of recent we have been getting into serious discussions about why Mormonism is the way to go. I have consistently held that it is fundamentally flawed, and that all we need is Faith in Christ to be saved. I quoted John 5:24 as well as many other verses, however he consistently holds that our baptisms lack “authority.” He contends that Mormons have authority through Joseph Smith, who apparently gained authority through Christ himself. He believes that when Jesus died, and the other apostles who Christ gave power to, that baptism with the proper authority is no longer possible.

Thus, he thinks that although Catholics and other Christians have a belief in Christ, they cannot spend eternity in Heaven, but in some other form of heaven…

What do I say? What other scripture should i direct him too? How do I show him that all you need is faith in Christ, and not this Joseph Smith character?

In Christ,

Craig

Craig, here are some articles that may be helpful to you:

catholic.com/library/Distinctive_Beliefs_of_Mormon.asp

catholic.com/library/Mormonism_Baptism_for_the_Dead.asp

catholic.com/library/Mormon_Stumpers.asp

catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9905fea2.asp

catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9907conv.asp

catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0304fea3.asp

 

[CentralFLJames]

His contention is that Joseph Smith has direct decedents thus power still exists on earth to baptize and it only exists in the Mormon church. I guess I am looking for some kind of response that says why we only need Christ, and not some random person who claims Christ gave him authority, and how the Catholic Church still has authority to baptize.

But anyone can make claims that they have a direct revelation. Yet Joseph Smith has not one single wit of a miracle or sign to show for his monologue faith as did the apostles. We judge such people by their fruit and immediately after Smith dies the Mormon’s fracture into competing sects just like Islam did when Mohammad died. It is mostly an American based religion with America as the new “Israel”. Yet when we look around America we find more vice than ever existed in Israel or The Catholic Church so its clearly not a new Promised Land and more and more contradictions are seen in the ever changing doctrines of Mormonism.

I am with Mike. Mormons try to have it both ways. The Bible was corrupted by Catholics yet the bible is a core part of their teachings (well at least initially to suck in weak faith Christians into their church in a classic bait and switch game). If the bible was truly corrupted they would be distancing themselves from it entirely. Instead they teach that the bible should be followed except for where the Mormons have new and improved and corrected revelations and teachings.

You might consider showing the parallels between Joseph Smith and the so called prophet Mohammad. They both had armed militias to spread the religion “by the sword” and to kill competing sects and derive economic benefit from it (reference Mormon Wars). They both claimed to have “for your eyes only” revelations from angels. They both had written a new teaching that plagiarized major themes of the bible. They are both many years distant from Christianity and clearly not new ideas. They both tried to create their own governments and states/nations. Both lacked a succession plan (since they were both built on the "prophet’s lifetime). They both routinely amended their teachings as new issues came up and needed explanations to keep themselves credible. They both used their religion to justify having more than one wife. In fact Joseph Smith revered Mohammad and at the height of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838 went so far as to say: “I will be to this generation a second Mohammad, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”

The only reason Mormonism still survives at all is because the population explosion of the planet since the time it was first founded has virtually guaranteed the P.T. Barnum principal (“there’s a sucker born every minute”). When we get another world wide population contraction from disease, famine and war as we always do when the world falls into major heresy and God rebukes humanity - Mormonism and other neo-Christian faiths will all retract and fade into obscurity as all heresies eventually do. The important thing of course is convincing your friend to get on-board with the Catholic Church before that happens.

James